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The economics of all-you-can-eat buffets (2020)

by Vagantem on 12/6/23, 10:20 AM with 427 comments

by lukev on 12/7/23, 6:42 PM
I love articles like this. I’d happily read a book with each chapter breaking down the unit economics of a given type of business.
Also, I can’t help but recount an anecdote from the last time I was at an all-you-can-eat place… conveyor-belt sushi with my kids.
A pair of guys came in and sat at the table next to us. They said a loud ironic prayer begging indulgence for “the sins we are about to commit” as they sat down… then proceeded to unwrap all the fish rolls, eating the contents as sashimi and discarding the rice and veggies on a tray on their table. By the time we left there was probably 8 lbs of rice on the tray… can’t believe they weren’t kicked out.
by Kon-Peki on 12/7/23, 7:23 PM
I worked at an all-you-can-eat buffet as a teenager in the 1990s.
Our big fill-you-up-cheap item was pizza. The ingredient cost for pizza is ridiculously low, even for above-average quality ingredients. An entire pizza was likely $0.50 or so, depending on toppings.
The restaurant oven was this giant gas-fired thing with 5 or 6 circular, rotating stone surfaces with each set to its own temperature. The pizza stone was set somewhere between 550 and 600° F.
My main job was making the pizza, and they were good. Definitely better than anything you could get at a Pizza Hut or Dominos or Little Caesars. People would even ask for custom pizzas, and management didn't care. You put it out on the buffet line and wave at them so they know it's ready. Of course, while they're waiting they aren't eating other things...
The restaurant also had a little game room with arcade machines that spit out tickets for cheap prizes. Kids would have a slice or two of pizza and then run off to play games, making their visits especially profitable.
by michaelt on 12/7/23, 6:20 PM
I once went to an all-you-can-eat buffet in Bulgaria with a mechanism I'd never seen before.
The salads and starches and suchlike were all self-service, and waiters toured the room with big skewers of freshly roasted meat they'd carve right in front of you. But of course they'd only serve you a certain amount, and they weren't very fast to make a return visit. Thus limiting diners' consumption of the more expensive items, unless the diner was very patient.
Of course, the prices were very fair and we all left well fed.
by jzb on 12/7/23, 6:34 PM
I grew up in a small town in Missouri in the 70s and 80s. I literally had never had any form of Chinese food until I was about 17, and I loved it. So a friend and I would go into "the city" on the regular for a Chinese buffet -- on average once a week during the summer.
I'm pretty sure the owner winced every time we pulled into the parking lot in my friend's heavily used Ford Escort. They had the best Crab Rangoon, and we would knock back between 3-5 heavily loaded plates, each. (Not only Crab Rangoon.) And then heaping bowls of self-serve ice cream.
The restaurant is long gone now -- it folded sometime after I moved out of state (so I don't think it was our feasting that did it) -- which is a shame. I can't put away food the way I did as a teen, and I wish I could go back and have a few much more reasonably sized meals to help restore balance. In my limited defense we always tipped heavily even though we were poor teenagers with part-time amusement park wages.
by JambalayaJim on 12/7/23, 6:17 PM
The article mentions that 80% of all restaurant items will be eaten at home by 2030.
This further cultural entrenchment of people into homebodies is really sad to me. Really hope this does not happen.
I am assuming of course that the implication is that in-restaurant dining demand will shift to delivery, not that delivery will see some massive explosion over and above current restaurant food demand.
by wiradikusuma on 12/7/23, 6:19 PM
I regularly treat my 25-ish team to all-you-can-eat (AYCE) buffets (until recently, almost every week). What I observe, which could be country-specific, there are two kinds of "ideal" customers:
1. Family with kids. The kids don't eat much.
2. Couples. The female doesn't eat much. I honestly don't understand why they go to AYCE.
I'm surprised to learn that in the US the ticket is $20. In Indonesia, with a minimum wage of only $320/mo, it's around that price too! ($10 to $20). Also in most AYCEs here you're limited to 90 minutes.
by mckn1ght on 12/8/23, 12:47 AM
I can't believe they didn't mention crab legs. This is my earliest memory of AYCE, sitting at the table for what felt like an eternity while my father went through plate after plate of snow crab legs. They also are the thing that ties most disparate AYCE places together: I've seen them at the Chinese ones, as well as Continental-style.
I don't often find myself at AYCE places, but when I do, I always enjoy watching people line up and jockey for position for the next batch of fresh crab legs coming out of the kitchen.
Given how much they cost at markets, this has got to be a higher cost than the highest cost they're accounting for of steak.
by conductr on 12/7/23, 8:34 PM
I have a masochistic interest in opening a restaurant of some sort one day and one thing I'm pretty adamant about is owning my property. I live in an area where that is feasible and obviously it's not in many areas/cities. But, seeing that rent is 3x profit on this validates my back of envelope math. I don't want to be working for a landlord that's going to be constantly upping my rent. It's obviously a bit more capital intensive but it's also an asset that can be sold if the business doesn't work out.
All the businesses I observe come and go it's usually something about how they opened a hip restaurant in a trendy neighborhood and 5-10 years later it's fully gentrified and the rent causes them to close shop. Did they make enough profit to offset the cost of the leasehold improvement investment? I'm guessing not in that short amount of time. Meanwhile, the businesses that are family owned and have been around for 50+ years have no rent expenses and can weather some ups and downs more gracefully. They also get to have a reasonable profit to live on.
by cobertos on 12/8/23, 1:37 AM
I miss having on-demand cheap college cafeteria food. It's hard to find places that have the same slightly above average food for bargain prices.
IKEA's food is the closest I've found. Food courts at malls generally are no different from just going to a fast food place, which have all raised prices as of recently. Costco is cheap but their options/taste isn't great. I've been bumming off a friend's college meal plan recently and it's so good. Pizza, pasta, a few really good vegetarian options, same with the allergy-free section. If only I was allowed to pay what he pays for that food.
by post_break on 12/7/23, 6:35 PM
One time my dad and his friend went to a pizza hut buffet. His friend was a prankster so he proceeded to pour the entire thing of dressing into the salad bowl, pick it up and take it to his seat. He said the manager came over and was pissed and told him he better eat all of it. He ate it all, much to the managers disapproval. We're talking the huge bowl, like 2 feet wide.
by bell-cot on 12/7/23, 6:07 PM
[January 2020]
Originally on HN here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22151891 - with 268 comments
From a quick search on those comments, I still don't see the obvious comparison between all-you-can-eat restaurant buffets and all-you-can-use internet bandwidth.
by willsmith72 on 12/7/23, 5:53 PM
> To avoid these situations, some owners have updated their language to “All-you-can-eat within reason"
That's just no fun, you lose all the upside. I hope they offer free doggy bags and takeaway for those who eat less than a reasonable amount
by Animats on 12/7/23, 8:46 PM
I miss Fresh Choice, the mostly-vegetarian buffet. They went broke because the buffet itself was a lose and they were making money on the extras.[1]
[1] https://www.mashed.com/1374299/chain-restaurant-buffets-disa...
by dazc on 12/7/23, 6:33 PM
I worked for a hotel company once that did all you can eat breakfast buffets and lot of stuff was reheated day after day, the fruit salad was best avoided too.
I don't know if this is standard but I avoid such places like the plague.
by ryanjshaw on 12/7/23, 6:35 PM
Somewhat related - I have enjoyed watching Kitchen Nightmares and Hotel Hell, but I've always wondered about the economics of restaurants and whether Ramsay's "local and fresh" is really viable or not, and under which conditions. Anybody have recommendations that go into this?
by lvl102 on 12/7/23, 10:11 PM
My local Chinese restaurant stop doing their lunch and Sunday buffets during COVID. I asked the owner whether she would bring it back after the pandemic and she basically told me she makes 3-4x the profit off of take outs alone. And she’d cut dining-in too if she could. Restaurant business dramatically changed as a result of pandemic.
by ManBeardPc on 12/7/23, 6:36 PM
I avoid all-you-can-eats, the quality is usually much worse and even if there is some good stuff everyone plunders that tray and it takes ages to refill. On special occasions the price is even higher, easily reaching 50€+. Why would I do that if there are several restaurants nearby where I get way better quality for less, can choose exactly what I want and still can barely eat it all? I don't understand the appeal.
by mathgradthrow on 12/7/23, 6:39 PM
They miss the most important facet. Costco can only make so many chickens in their rotisserie. The downside is bounded.
The best bang for your buck options at a buffet still come in a bucket, but there no obligation for the restaurant to keep that bucket full, regardless of demand. It's a bit like playing poker in vegas. You're competing with the other gamblers, not the house.
by bitxbitxbitcoin on 12/7/23, 6:29 PM
Little ethnic buffets like the one mentioned at the end are my favorite types of hole in the walls. At that point, it’s about trying a little bit of everything which if you ordered one of everything would be very expensive in comparison with the buffet entry price.
by somethoughts on 12/7/23, 6:42 PM
In this post covid and high labor cost era - it'd be interesting if there will be any innovative company that attempts a Japanese conveyor belt sushi (i.e. pay $N dollars per dish of pre-plated food) setup but with Western style appetizers/Tapas.
by daltont on 12/7/23, 6:23 PM
The imagery of the football players at the buffet brings back memories of my team going to the breakfast buffets at Shoney's the morning of Saturday games at noon. We didn't need lunch and the food was down before game time.
by foreigner on 12/7/23, 7:19 PM
My tiny, 5 foot tall, 90 pound mother _loved_ buffets. When she walked in you could almost see the owners doing a cash-money victory dance.
by DebtDeflation on 12/8/23, 3:43 PM
I'll never forget the Simpson's episode where Homer goes to one of these places. They kicked him out when he was still eating long after closing time, and he sued them. "The sign says 'All You Can Eat' and I can still eat more."
by RcouF1uZ4gsC on 12/7/23, 5:59 PM
The other trick, especially at places like Golden Corral is the oily fried foods.
Oily fried foods are very filling. You are limited in how much you can eat without feeling sick.
by pimlottc on 12/7/23, 6:02 PM
I can’t read this in iOS Safari, the page keeps reloading/snapping back to the top when I try to scroll. Even dumps me out of reader mode, eventually.
by xyst on 12/8/23, 1:43 AM
It’s basically like how insurance companies determine premiums for people but this is on a much smaller scale.
Personally, I liked going to buffets as a kid. But as an adult, I find them repulsive. In the back of my mind, instead of choosing a well balanced meal. I am instead motivated to just get the priciest items. Forget rice. Forget veggies. Protein. Protein. Protein. Steak, lobster, fish.
Of course I regret it the night of or the following day as it exits my system
by gnicholas on 12/7/23, 6:28 PM
> They use larger than average serving spoons for things like potatoes, and smaller than average tongs for meats.
Smart! The buffet my family has gone to the most, Sweet Tomatoes (RIP, COVID-19) didn't really even have meat. You could fish for chicken in the chicken noodle soup, and they had chili, but that was about it.
> Even higher-end buffets, like the $98 brunch at the Hotel del Coronado in San Diego, employ these tactics: “They hide the truffles, the foie gras, and the oysters,” says Britt. “You literally can’t find them.”
I've never had the $98 brunch, but their downstairs (less expensive) brunch buffet is a pretty good deal. The pricing for kids was especially reasonable when we ate there a few years ago. But nothing will beat their pricing on our honeymoon — they comped us brunch for the whole week!
by autoexec on 12/8/23, 5:42 PM
> Waste reduction is a key focus of any successful buffet and a frequent tactic is reusing food.
I guess that includes hiding food that wouldn't pass inspection
https://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-golden-corral-d...
by spencerchubb on 12/8/23, 1:10 AM
I love Golden Corral but when I took my snobbish Italian friend, he took one bite of the food and just walked out.
by porridgeraisin on 12/7/23, 6:57 PM
In India all you can eat pizza is pretty popular. You pay ~350 INR per person for non-vegetarian and ~250-300 INR per person for vegetarian. It's pretty good.
The trick they use is a large fizzy complimentary drink up front, which reduces your hunger for the first set of pizzas which take a bit to arrive.
by charlieyu1 on 12/7/23, 9:58 PM
It is pretty big in Asia. All you can eat sushi/sashimi is everywhere in Hong Kong, not that expensive, great experience for everyone.
When I moved to UK I realised the difference. I can only eat like maybe 70% compared to an average Westerner so it is always much more expensive for me.
by alxjsn on 12/7/23, 5:55 PM
As kids at a buffet we would all load up on way more food than we could eat. Naturally, we would just play with that food, mixing up all the things we could in cups and dare each other to take a sip. I bet we weren't the only ones who did that.
by globular-toast on 12/8/23, 10:02 AM
Ah, the all you can eat buffet, where you're either obese and/or borderline diabetic, or you're paying over the odds for shitty food.
by vmurthy on 12/8/23, 4:46 AM
Didn’t see anyone mention Indian buffets in India. In my hometown of Bengaluru , many restaurants offer buffets. Weightage is given to starters ( I’m vegetarian so I tend to eat paneer ones ). Desserts are a few Indian sweets and lots of cheap ice cream which seems in line with the economics mentioned. If you eat protein heavy starters it’s unlikely you’ll want to have more food for mains.
by cliffccc on 12/8/23, 2:48 AM
For ordinary people, eating a buffet to "enough money" may mean greater losses.
by zwieback on 12/7/23, 7:05 PM
Planet Money (best podcast of all times) did an episode on this a while back: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197954459
by NautilusWave on 12/10/23, 7:51 AM
This article just makes me think of the industrialized agriculture and how it contributes to rashes of foodborne illness. But also I'm hungry, and it's really not helping.
by francisofascii on 12/7/23, 8:13 PM
> starches like potatoes might only cost the restaurant $0.30 per serving, compared to $2.25 per serving for steak.
What you need is a hybrid buffet, in which each person gets a certain limit of meat, but unlimited of all the cheaper food.
by fuzzfactor on 12/7/23, 11:15 PM
It's a good feeling when you check into a nice hotel and see a notice informing you about the "Free Breakfast Buffet".
I can only imagine it would induce a little snickering from Warren or the late Jimmy though . . .
by trevyn on 12/7/23, 7:23 PM
ProTip: Many university cafeterias are all-you-can-eat and open to the public.
by eru on 12/8/23, 6:31 AM
> Buffets often break even on food and eke out a profit by minimizing the cost of labor.
I'm not sure what's that supposed to mean. Addition and subtraction are commutative, aren't they?
by ExMachina73 on 12/7/23, 10:21 PM
In most restaurants, the food itself is a loss leader. The real money is in booze and drinks. Why most diners back east have a bar. All the money is made in the bar drinks.
by helsinkiandrew on 12/8/23, 3:27 PM
Also discussed 2 years ago (268 comments):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22151891
by ricardobayes on 12/8/23, 7:26 AM
Kind of explains why there are no buffets in Spain. Spanish people eat very healthily during the week but when they eat out, it's gloves off. Meat with meat.
by mannyv on 12/8/23, 8:16 AM
In the Philippines, buffets are "eat all you can," which is not quite the same as the US' "all you can eat."
by 55555 on 12/8/23, 12:58 AM
In any sector with a 10% margin, there’s businesses that are losing money and businesses that are taking home 30% margins.
by bilsbie on 12/7/23, 7:30 PM
What’s the best way to find all you can eat places? I don’t think there are any in my area so I want to make a road trip.
by SamuelAdams on 12/7/23, 10:01 PM
I wonder if those economics also apply to software, ie “unlimited data storage” service providers.
by calderracrusade on 12/7/23, 6:22 PM
My favorite is libertarians who use buffets as an example of why they don't pay taxes. "I don't pay for the salad bar, I get to eat steak, I can't choose where my taxes go". Except you literally do pay for all the wilting lettuce as you eat your steak. You don't get to tell them to un-order the lettuce and un-stock the salad bar just because it violates your NAP.
There are many economics lessons to learn from buffets. And people tend to learn zero of them.