from Hacker News

Microsoft was blindsided by OpenAI's ouster of CEO Sam Altman

by aaronds on 11/17/23, 11:42 PM with 247 comments

  • by speedylight on 11/18/23, 12:00 AM

    > Microsoft, which has invested billions in OpenAI, learned that OpenAI was ousting CEO Sam Altman just a minute before the news was shared with the world, according to a person familiar with the situation.

    Well this probably disproves the theory that it was a power grab by Microsoft. It didn’t make too much sense anyway since they already have access to tech behind GPT and Microsoft doesn’t necessarily need the clout behind the OpenAI brand.

  • by WestCoastJustin on 11/18/23, 12:03 AM

    Link to MS statement https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2023/11/17/a-statement-from...

    In my opinion, I'd say the shortness and lack of details backs up the story that they had no idea. You'd see way more words if a marketing department had it's hands on something like this. This was 100% a get something out asap job.

  • by valine on 11/18/23, 12:04 AM

    If anything this is a power grab by the board away from Microsoft. Optimistically, this could be an attempt to return OpenAI to its original status as a true non-profit company. OpenAI lost most of its openness under Sam.

    They needed the Microsoft investment before GPT scaling was proven out. I imagine many entities would be willing to put money into a truly open research lab given OpenAI’s track record.

  • by ryanSrich on 11/18/23, 12:34 AM

    Microsoft invested $10b and owns 49% of OpenAi. Yet they don’t have a board seat? Thats genuinely insane, and seems like a huge issue.

  • by swalsh on 11/18/23, 12:15 AM

  • by sharkweek on 11/18/23, 12:01 AM

    I sense a Netflix documentary is already in the works!

    But seriously, this muddies the water even more. I assumed the Microsoft deal being based on some false pretense was the reason this was all happening. I guess that could still be true and the board is trying to protect themselves from whatever else is about to come out.

  • by baron816 on 11/18/23, 12:39 AM

    I wonder if this is one of those pivotal moments in history where OpenAI collapses or fades and Google or someone else dominates the future of AI, and we’re all left wondering “what if”.

  • by woeirua on 11/18/23, 12:01 AM

    Something big and bad was going on at OpenAI, and if I were MSFT I would be very nervous about the money that you’ve invested in OpenAI right now.

  • by dang on 11/18/23, 12:39 AM

    Related ongoing thread:

    Satya Nadella's Statement on OpenAI - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38312355

    and for completeness I suppose (though at the moment they're #1 and #2):

    OpenAI's board has fired Sam Altman - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38309611

    Greg Brockman quits OpenAI - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38312704

  • by elamje on 11/18/23, 12:27 AM

    Microsoft (with thousands of lawyers on staff) invests $10B in a company and has no power or leverage over the decisions of a non-profit board headed by several names no one has heard of.

    Come on. No way Microsoft’s team does a deal like that with 0 power or knowledge in a situation like this. That’s ludicrous.

    Edit: the only case I can see for MSFT being truly blindsided is as follows. Elon is behind it. Sam and Elon have their breakup. Sam seems to win. They close the deal with MSFT, all is good. But Elon is intimately familiar with the corporate structure and all moves made historically, maybe even has some evidence of wrong-doing. There is probably only 1 person in the valley that could pressure the non profit to oust Sam (and by extension Greg) AND provide the financial/legal/power backing to see it through. It takes a lot money and influence to do this from the outside. That is really the only scenario I could see MSFT truly being blindsided for getting out-maneuvered by a dinky non-profit board.

  • by Captainmack on 11/18/23, 12:12 AM

    This goes against all the theories saying it was Satya that forced him out or was otherwise some back room deal with MS.

    sama’s generic “looking forward to what’s next” response also doesn’t give me confidence it won’t be a bigger scandal

  • by devin on 11/18/23, 12:16 AM

    This feels like the beginning of the end of a hype cycle to me.

  • by alchemist1e9 on 11/18/23, 12:16 AM

    Are all the rumors on social media sites considered out of bound on HN? They seem fairly plausible given the known circumstantial evidence floating around.

  • by asimpleusecase on 11/18/23, 2:04 AM

    My guess is Sam’s New AI venture Humane has either taken key tech from OpenAI? Key talent or in some other way trod on something internal. One thing to consider is that by making AI wearable it is a step toward embodiment- which has always been a problem for AI learning as it does not interact with the real world. Getting live video, audio and sensor data from humans moving through space doing things in context will be amazing data to train the next bump in AI toward AGI.

  • by taftster on 11/18/23, 12:26 AM

    Microsoft has a "Cloud + AI" division [1]. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sam Altman at or near the top of that organization come Monday.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_engineering_groups#C...

  • by hilux on 11/18/23, 3:18 AM

    I don't know anything about Microsoft's relationships with OpenAI.

    What I do know, having worked for many large organizations, is that reading the daily press (or listening to the news) is a terrible way to get accurate real-time facts about current corporate happenings.

    Related: check out Gell-Man amnesia effect.

  • by dragonwriter on 11/18/23, 10:02 AM

    > Microsoft, which has invested billions in OpenAI, learned that OpenAI was ousting CEO Sam Altman

    Microsoft, while a large investor (who has already reaped large rewards from that investment) explicitly has no governance role in any of the OpenAI entities, including the one at the very bottom of the stack of four that they are invested in, and this was a decision by the board governs the nonprofit at the top of the stack about personnel matters, so there is no reason to think that Microsoft would be notified in advance.

  • by paxys on 11/18/23, 12:06 AM

    So much for the "Microsoft wanted Sam Altman out because he wouldn't sell OpenAI to them" theory.

  • by kristjansson on 11/18/23, 6:09 AM

    So MSFT put $10bn into OpenAI, presumably at least in part on the strength of sama’s leadership. But if the stories are to be believed, a huge chunk of that investment was in Azure credits, and investment into new Azure GPU DCs/clusters for OAI to spend those credits on.

    If MSFT doesn’t like this move, why wouldn’t they just … not honor those credits? Or grant more to a successor entity? Does OAI have its own warehouse of GPUs separate from Azure?

    Seems like a very dangerous game for Ilya to play.

  • by hm-nah on 11/18/23, 1:22 AM

    I don’t believe it. I watched OpenAI DevDay live last week (wasn’t it?). I immediately noticed how Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, was treating (slighting so subtly in my mind) Satya Nadela, the CEO of Microsoft.

    The last this he said was: “I look forward to building AGI with you” or the like…

    I’m betting that he insulted Satya at that event or upshowed him, etc. and that’s why he’s kicking rocks…

  • by nojvek on 11/18/23, 8:08 PM

    Hedgefunds are betting the on AI and tech companies.

    Without the top 5 tech companies, S&P500 has lackluster growth.

    Microsoft has added trillions to its cap. The statement “we have all the access we need” is a powerful statement. To both OpenAI board and investors.

    OpenAI is built on Azure compute. MS has invested billions of their own, they’re building their own chips now.

    Essentially Microsoft is saying you can burn OpenAI to the ground, “we have everything we need” to win! - the data, the compute, the algorithms, the engineers, the capital and the market.

    This is a way bigger blow to OpenAI than Microsoft.

  • by tunesmith on 11/18/23, 1:24 AM

    I dunno, if they were behind it, wouldn't they have an interest in claiming they had no idea? And if they weren't and were truly blindsided, would they have an interest in admitting it?

  • by dougmwne on 11/18/23, 12:14 AM

    I think this strengthens my theory that the AI safety true believers wrestled control away from the entrepreneurs.

    The Open AI board letter, representing just 4 people, screams butt hurt and personal disagreements. Microsoft, who just finished building OpenAI’s models into every core product, was blindsided. The chairman of the OpenAI board, Greg Brockman, another startup exec was pushed out at the same time. Eric Schmidt, with his own AI startup lab start singing Sam’s praises and saying “what’s next?”

    My guess is that Microsoft is about to get fucked and Eric Schmidt is going to pop open a bottle of expensive champagne tonight.

  • by vegabook on 11/18/23, 1:47 AM

    Microsoft should now hire Altman in the ultimate double bluff.

  • by PeterStuer on 11/18/23, 8:05 AM

    "full access to everything" feels like a shot across the bow sending a very clear signal to the new board that it should not attempt to limit access to rapid commercial (or other) exploitation of any research results emanating from OpenAI for whatever reason given, be it 'alignment', 'safety' or disproportionate exclusive leverage running afoul of OpenAI's original mission.

  • by b33j0r on 11/18/23, 12:08 AM

    As a large language model of a borg-haha we mean, board!

    I assure you that sentience is a physical process, akin to HUMAN METABOLISM

    You have nothing to be surprised about, Mr. Turing-jokester.

  • by aranelsurion on 11/18/23, 2:06 AM

    Wow, no insincere "spending more time with my family" or "heartfelt thanks to him for his contributions" or something? It's both refreshing and very surprising at the same time. I guess it's either a really bad table flip or there will be more to hear soon.

  • by wavesounds on 11/18/23, 3:32 AM

    Why doesn't Microsoft just hire Sam and Greg and put them in charge of AI?

  • by AugustoCAS on 11/18/23, 12:02 AM

    I find a bit odd that MS didn't have a couple of people in the board of directors, who I assume accepted Sam Altman resignation (and signed the severance package).

    Edit: I just read he was fired, but the point remains.

  • by sebastianconcpt on 11/18/23, 1:52 PM

    Microsoft being Microsoft? Sounds like a political move to have greater power surface over the AI sector. A normal day in a monopolist afternoon.

  • by eatbitseveryday on 11/18/23, 12:08 AM

    dupe? doesn't say much beyond what we learn in the actual release

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38309611

  • by Sosh101 on 11/18/23, 2:12 AM

    "according to a person familiar with the situation."

  • by Racing0461 on 11/18/23, 12:15 AM

    Thankfully LLMs aren't that much secret sauce. Hope another company / open source can keep them on their feet.

  • by brucethemoose2 on 11/18/23, 1:13 AM

    Random aside, but I like Axios.

    The site is mercifully clean (just turn off your adblocker and see what I mean).

    Their scoops are good.

    The format is succinct and efficient but not "dumb" like a short twitter thread.

    What's more, none of this has changed over the years, somehow avoiding enshittification.

  • by Varloom on 11/18/23, 1:20 AM

    There goes their almost $13B investment down the drain.

    Both masterminds of ChatGPT have left the company.

    Feels like Nokia 2.0

  • by grpt on 11/18/23, 12:10 AM

    > according to a person familiar with the situation.

    Just a rumor. Zero chance someone at MS wasn't already aware.

  • by tsunamifury on 11/18/23, 12:13 AM

    I'm pressing X really hard to doubt.

  • by SheinhardtWigCo on 11/18/23, 12:25 AM

    One "person familiar" is inappropriate sourcing for something so consequential. Not a good look for Axios.