by sherlock_h on 11/3/23, 10:07 PM with 46 comments
Any advice how to deal with this? Here is the full story which some of you might have lived through already:
I have most of my life savings with Marcus.com, an account that I opened in 2019. I always used the same 1-2 bank accounts to transfer money in and out. In 2020 I moved back to my home country in Europe but left the savings accounts open.
About 4 weeks ago I added a new bank account to transfer money to (a wise.com account with Evolve Bank & Trust). I verified the account (two deposits) and then proceeded to transfer half of my savings with the intent of converting it into Euros to use in my home country.
1 day later, transfer got reversed. I can still access my account but not transfer any of my money anywhere.
Upon calling customer service, I learn that the transaction was flagged. The only way they can prove my identity is by sending a text to a phone number registered in my name. That doesn’t work since I don’t have a phone number in my name in the U.S. anymore. The phone number to access the account for 2FA is a VoiP service. Ok, great. Now what?
Well, apparently they can send an affidavit to my account address in the U.S. (which is my brother-in-law’s address where we usually visit when we’re there) which I can notarize with my ID and send to them. Takes between 5-10 business days. Perfect, let’s do that. I will be in the U.S. during that time frame.
1 week – no affidavit. I call – the affidavit still needs to be approved. 2 weeks later – still no affidavit. I call them “The affidavit still hasn’t been approved”. Every time a different set of agents, each giving the same canned responses. Finally I get a supervisor on the phone “we will expedite a phone call to you and the security team will ascertain your identity. This takes 1-3 business days. If they miss you, they will leave a voice mail and you can call back the hotline”.
Obviously, no phone call ever happens. No voice mail happens. No affidavit is sent. Call agents still telling me “I am sorry this is happening but we need to wait for approval”. I feel like I am stuck in hell. No single employee that contacts me, no one that owns my case. Is this the future we create for ourselves? Unbelievable.
Anyone that has been in a similar situation, how did you deal with this?
by Leftium on 11/3/23, 11:23 PM
- Advice patio11 gave me (adjust for your own situation):
> 1) Unlikely to convince them to re-open the account but if you want to try your best bet is on paper to Sallie Mae; enclose copious documentary evidence of identity, source of funds, and purpose for opening the account. You can address the packet to Legal or Chief Compliance Officer; they can messenger it over to Fraud.
> 2) Assuming primary goal is getting $20k expeditiously: Reg E letter to Sallie Mae’s Legal Department or Chief Compliance Officer or similar. Argument: you made an electronic transfer into the bank; it was not processed properly (not credited to you); you require them to either reverse transfer or return the money via a method convenient to them. Send on paper.
> 3) Check that Chexsystems didn’t get a file opened on you as a result of this; would be unfortunate. More on your local Googles.
- (patio11 used to ghostwrite to banks as a hobby[2])
[1]: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
[2]: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-r...
by paxys on 11/4/23, 1:06 AM
I can't offer you advice for your present situation, but after it is resolved you need to move your money to a bank that lets you open an account with your up-to-date European address and phone number. Offering services to non-residents is a very complex topic for any financial institution, and many/most will not support it at all.
by beembeem on 11/4/23, 12:48 AM
My only advice is to find every regulator from the local to national level that governed financial and consumer issues where you used to live in the US. State level ones are usually the right balance of having enough resources and heft to fight for you, yet still small enough where your complaint might reach a person. If all else fails, contact the state attorney general for the state you used to live in, many have online forms. File complaints everywhere you can. Eventually the bank will be forced to reply to some of these regulators and CC you on snail mail.
When all else fails, do your best to guess email addresses of those at the bank and work your way up internally that way. Cite dates, support ticket #s, transaction #s, etc to prove you're the real deal and won't go away until it's fixed.
If you're persistent enough it will get resolved.
by neximo64 on 11/3/23, 10:12 PM
You'll have to get your account details updated and let them know you've moved out of the US and close your account. They'll only respond to you after a while after they've reviewed your account for fraud though.
Also you would be better off using your local European bank account when you close your account for the withdrawal, as opposed to using Wise.
by akg_67 on 11/4/23, 6:12 AM
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=415611&...
Talk to their support and escalate. Complain to as many regulatory agencies as you can, send copies to Marcus and GS legal departments. Make noise and shame them on online forums and social media. Find a lawyer to file lawsuits against both Marcus and GS.
by fsckboy on 11/4/23, 2:53 AM
Also, in the US, you could achieve your goal by sending instructions to the company with a "notarized" letter. The Notary is a person licensed by the govt to swear that the signature is your signature, and you can send them the written instructions and they have to follow them, it has the same force as you being there.
On an international basis, you can achieve the same "notarization" by visiting a United State Consular office and they will check your local passport etc. and certify under United States law that you are the person sending the letter. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/records-and-authe... (aha! it's called an Apostille)
It's a legally binding thing that, for example, someone with your power of attorney can act on your behalf. Companies have to accept mail, etc. People can be incapacitated, and that doesn't give a company a right not to respond.
by zinekeller on 11/4/23, 2:41 AM
Any natural person using the Service must be at least 18 years of age. The Service may only be used in the United States, including its territories, or on a United States military base. The Service is controlled or operated (or both) from the United States, and is not intended to subject us to any non-U.S. jurisdiction or law. The Service may not be appropriate or available for use in some non-U.S. jurisdictions. Any use of the Service is at your own risk, and you must comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations in doing so. We may limit the Service’s availability at any time and without notice, in whole or in part, to any person, geographic area or jurisdiction that we choose.
I believe that Leftium's advice (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38136366) is solid, but the first line (Unlikely to convince them to re-open the account) is accurate here. First-line customer service will almost certainly not have the powers to do anything about this, and the silence is probably because someone have reviewed the account and confirmed that your account is too weird (phone number is dead and address is inaccurate, reasonable possibility of running afoul of anti-money laundering laws which triggers the "no tipping-off" (https://aml-cft.net/library/tipping-off/) provisions).
by csomar on 11/4/23, 3:31 AM
Apart from US laws (if you do not have any interest on the account you are fine), you might have a complex situation at home. The US is not part of the CRS, so they are probably not sharing stuff with your local government. However, if you plan to transfer this money at some point to Europe, you better fix this situation now. Your country might perceive this money as undisclosed income.
by gwnywg on 11/4/23, 2:37 PM
by HocusLocus on 11/4/23, 1:03 AM
by rsync on 11/4/23, 3:05 AM
I don't understand this part - that would be trivial for anyone to either achieve or fake. ...
In the United States in 2023 you can get a live, mobile SIM-backed phone number registered in any name you like.
Have your brother-in-law buy a used pixel4 ($80) and a USMobile SIM kit ($0) and then install SMSForwarder on the phone after registering service in your name.
Then he just plugs it in and leaves it on the countertop and you receive SMS in your email inbox.
by mannyv on 11/4/23, 1:53 AM
by nitwit005 on 11/4/23, 1:26 AM
The employees they'll let you talk to on the phone are probably telling the truth that they can't do anything.
by woleium on 11/4/23, 3:20 AM
by getcrunk on 11/4/23, 2:28 AM
by doubleg72 on 11/4/23, 1:53 AM
by singleshot_ on 11/4/23, 12:05 AM