from Hacker News

Apple's Blue Ocean

by hutattedonmyarm on 10/29/23, 8:17 PM with 258 comments

  • by ttfkam on 10/30/23, 1:40 AM

    Two things I've been waiting on for years:

    • MST (DisplayPort daisy chaining) in MacOS. The hardware has supported it for over a decade. The OS is the weak link here. It's the difference between spending $75-$300 for a dock in addition to the cables and just connecting the monitors together along with a single cable to the first monitor.

    • Non-soldered storage. Seriously. Storage is the most likely component to fail. SSDs only have so many write cycles.

    • BIOS on a separate chip. To make matters worse, with the introduction of the T2 chip, the BIOS is stored on the SSD as well. This means if the SSD fails, you don't just lose your data; you have an expensive brick. You can't even boot to external drive anymore if one of the two SSD chips fails.

    • Safer SSD chips. If a cheap capacitor fails on newer Macs, 13V gets shorted straight to the SSD. The SSD commonly doesn't survive this. And since the BIOS is on the SSD now… Literal ten cent part blows up your multi-thousand dollar laptop with zero warning.

    https://youtu.be/RYG4VMqatEY

  • by ChuckMcM on 10/29/23, 9:21 PM

    The short version is: "Wouldn't it be disruptive if Apple went back to replaceable batteries?" but the author stopped short of where that leads.

    One of the things that doable "now" that wasn't doable "then" is wireless charging. I love that I can put my phone on a pad next to the bed at night and it charges, pick it up and there is no trailing wire to unplug, put it down and there is no wire to find and plug in. This is a big improvement in my user experience.

    Another of the things that have moved us forward is that power efficiency has gone up dramatically, as a result a smaller battery can give the same "run time" as a large battery of old without the bulk associated with the larger energy storage capacity.

    Why not combine them?

    Why not no battery in the device? Seal it against the elements. Then put in a pocket where a battery that is a wireless "charger" can drop into a slot on the device and provide the power. Current demands on a modern device are low enough that you just go wireless all the time for main power. Now your device takes a sealed "toaster pastry" sized unit that looks innocuous, but slide it into the slot and poof the device powers up, put it on a recharging mat and it starts charging up itself.

    Now you have no exposed terminals to "short out", no worries about the battery in your device becoming a "pillow of doom"[1]. And you can carry a couple of extras if you're going to be away from power for a while.

    You get all the benefits of replaceable batteries and none of the downsides with the possible exception of a "slot" in your device that looks funny when there isn't a battery in it.

    I totally should have patented this :-)

    [1] Just Google it :-)

  • by todd3834 on 10/29/23, 9:26 PM

    I really enjoyed the first half talking about how Apple and Nintendo followed a blue ocean strategy. Then the second half ranting about removable batteries felt totally out of place. I’m not sure I buy the blue ocean strategy of that, although well written.
  • by Animats on 10/29/23, 8:35 PM

    The future is batteries with more charge cycles, not replaceable batteries. The solid state battery people are claiming 10,000 charge/discharge cycles. If they can achieve that, it's 27 years of battery life. The case will wear out first.
  • by svnt on 10/30/23, 1:28 AM

    People not realizing this ship has sailed. Apple switched to supporting right to repair because

    1) They are no longer dependent on the loss of battery capacity to drive new device purchases — meaning this issue is effectively over. Batteries now last all day for longer than most new device users will keep a device.

    2) Margins on services sold to hand-me-down family devices are a growing high-margin and young-user market and much of the market isn’t open to buying a device here — they will only use the service if they get a device for “free.”

    3) The net outcome is an increase in service revenue and decrease in recycling costs for Apple.

    All these trends will only accelerate from here.

  • by rezonant on 10/29/23, 9:05 PM

    The Blue Ocean strategy is choosing a specific market segment underserved by your direct competitors and refusing to compete on the product attributes that your competitors are emphasizing, not just "trying something new".
  • by makeitdouble on 10/29/23, 9:48 PM

    > [fewer product sales per unit time] is a problem that can be solved using one of Apple’s favorite financial tools: higher product margins.

    It's weird people forget the main message Apple has been touting for years now: services revenue.

    Even without removeable batteries, with right to repair device longevity will increase, and they've seen the writing on the wall for a long time.

    Apple will continue increasing services revenue. They'll fight the bitter end for the 15/30% tax on everything, iCloud tiers, Apple Music, TV, etc.

    If they find a blue ocean, it will be in services. Their entry into emergency satellite calls and other "wouldn't you feel bad being dead because you didn't pay us ?" push could be that.

  • by acdha on 10/30/23, 12:01 AM

    The second part seemed pretty weak to me, too, but I think there's a potentially bigger shift which could be steel-manned out of the battery idea. e-waste is getting a lot of attention, as are right to repair laws, and general realization that we can't keep generating waste on a 20th century scale.

    Apple might have an interesting angle for embracing that because unlike their competitors they profit from the whole stack, have a robust service portfolio, and retail presence near a large portion of their customers. Turning device longevity into a competitive point really puts pressure on anyone who can't easily switch from Qualcomm's blink-and-you-miss-it support period or negotiate some kind of revenue sharing agreement between themselves, Microsoft/Google, and services like Spotify or Netflix, and unlike most other attempts to make it harder to compete with them this would actually be seen as a general good by almost everyone other than their direct competitors.

  • by pipeline_peak on 10/30/23, 2:17 AM

    Really bad article, the author doesn’t seem to have any idea what blue ocean strategy is about. It’s not about making “bold moves” in an unchanging market. It’s about cutting down cost through focusing on what really matters to an under looked consumer audience. That audience being one the competition isn’t even focusing on. Also low cost wasn’t just Nintendo’s choice, that was a major factor in the definition of Blue Ocean. Apple cuts down cost in some areas to compensate for quality and user experience, keeping the cost. They do this because they make luxury items.

    Yellow Tail Wine and Nintendo’s Wii were text book examples. They both found an untapped audience, novice consumers who don’t know nor care for over the top quality. In Nintendo’s case, hard core gamers valued graphics and performance as quality. To Yellow Tail it was Wine enthusiasts and their interest in vineyards, vintages, and hints of whatever.

    Apple products are novice, but they aren’t cheap. The Chromebook is a better example of Blue Ocean. It does only what an entry level consumer wants in a laptop. It browsers the web, writes documents. Google said “hey, pretty much everyone who owns a MacBook but isn’t an artist or techie could use this”. Like MacBooks it doesnt require expertise, it offers a similar user quality experience, but unlike them it’s affordable because it doesn’t have unnecessary hardware specs and Swiss watch leveled build quality.

    I don’t blame the author for not reading the whole ass book. But for god sakes, at least read the wiki page about it, don’t use a gaming magazine as your source. Because he clearly took the Wii example in the magazine and ran with it. He thought he could map it onto Apple products because what, they get rid of stuff and are innovative like the Wii was?

    I’m glad I’m not the only one who found the battery ramble irrelevant.

  • by Kon-Peki on 10/30/23, 1:34 AM

    I thought that EU regulations were going to force smartphones to have removable batteries within the next few years. That’s hardly swimming out into the blue ocean.

    But regardless, easily removable batteries are going to create more e-waste, not less. Replacing a battery is perfectly doable right now, but there is a hurdle you have to jump over - you aren’t going to do it until you really need it. Once those batteries are easy to replace, people are going to be replacing them much more frequently, they’re going to be buying spares, etc. And people are going to be throwing old batteries in the trash without even thinking about it.

  • by Grustaf on 10/29/23, 9:58 PM

    Of all the things I've ever wanted to be different on my macbook, removable batteries have never been one of them. Now when battery life exceeds a (long) working day, why on earth would anyone want this? The very few times you will be away from a wall socket for more than 12 hours, you can just bring a power bank.
  • by warrenm on 10/29/23, 8:35 PM

    Make battery packs (call them "removable batteries, if you like") 100% completely and totally separate from the device itself - think of it like a UPS for a desktop...no (or practically "no") battery on/in the device, and instead you run the device with a Qi-compatible battery pack

    IOW - the device becomes 30-50% lighter (on its own), and the buyer determines how heavy his/her experience will be based on which Qi-pack [s]he has chosen to run their phone

    Want a 10,000mAh battery? No problem!

    Want only a 2,000mAh battery? Again: no problem!

    This even solves a problem Apple has let other vendors 'solve' with regard to cases - want an OtterBox? CrayolaCase? SiliconSoftie? Go get your case from any of a thousand manufactures

    Apple could provide a pair (or trio, etc) of Qi-packs for their devices, and let other manufacturers go banana pants coming up with other options

    This modularizes the iPhone in a smart way (not like that goofy Motorola method (which was reminiscent of IBM in the 80s open-standardizing the buses for their Personal Computer) whereby the only thing you "have" to get from Motorola was the core module

    Apple's "core module" with such a program would still be iPhone ... and that is still the biggest differentiator Apple has vs the 80 scadzillion Android makers out there: iPhone is only Apple. Android is whomever wants to make one.

  • by ekianjo on 10/30/23, 10:18 AM

    Apple never had a blue ocean strategy. Almost none of their products sold because they were innovative. They sold well because they had a better execution and integration.
  • by mynegation on 10/29/23, 9:03 PM

    Sealed off user-interchangeable batteries are a solved problem. GoPro does it.
  • by IshKebab on 10/29/23, 9:51 PM

    Not going to happen. Battery life is good enough for 99% of people that they aren't going to want to swap batteries. Only nerds really did that in the first place.

    Battery technology has improved so much that removable batteries are less desirable.

  • by omneity on 10/29/23, 9:32 PM

    This article wasn't particularly insightful or thought-provoking. Maybe I missed something.
  • by lapcat on 10/29/23, 9:08 PM

    My favorite MacBook Pro ever was my 17-inch 2006 model.

    Replaceable battery and matte display! I hate that these features were eliminated.

  • by FireBeyond on 10/29/23, 8:59 PM

    > the Wii differentiated itself with its motion controls and a low price. It was a hit.

    > Lately, I’ve been thinking about the blue ocean strategy in the context of Apple. Like Nintendo ...

    Well, Apple is certainly not differentiating on 'low price'. And I don't know that high margin is "innovative blue ocean".

  • by kristianpaul on 10/30/23, 11:59 AM

    Apple software ecosystem is pretty unique and ubiquitous in its way, this allow then to introduce features like

    - Advance encryption in iCloud/iPhone its something not present in other products and services currently.

    - FindMy network to find lost keys and iphone

    - Private relay for more private browsing

    - AirDrop for fast file transfer

  • by chaostheory on 10/30/23, 3:10 AM

    The article is about Apple, but it describes the https://frame.work/ blue ocean of mobilizing the laptop where nearly everything is replaceable and upgradeable
  • by bonestamp2 on 10/30/23, 12:28 AM

    The real Blue Ocean strategy that Apple should apply would be to use AI to help analyze our behaviors and then actually change our behaviors to help us be happier and healthier, not just use it to sell us more stuff (as some competitors are doing).
  • by reactordev on 10/30/23, 9:56 AM

    I call BS on this. Apple’s strategy is not battery tech. It’s personal computing devices. Always has been. Always will. Wearables, services, AI-capable hardware, is where Apple wins. Wearables beyond the watch and the vision pro. Meta and Ray-Ban teamed up for some Google Glass-like shades. Apple will come out with Shade (TM) if they choose to go into that market.

    The point is, Apple has had a strategy for a while now. It’s not going to win against Android in the phone wars. It’s going to win in the AR/XR space if they can manage to get a decent wearable out and provide cores within cores within cores for AI NN’s.

  • by ksoped on 10/30/23, 6:36 PM

    >Second, people still crave the advantages of removable batteries that were left behind: increasing battery life by swapping batteries instead of using a cumbersome external battery pack, inexpensively and conveniently extending the life of a product by replacing a worn-out battery with a new one—without paying for someone else to perform delicate surgery on the device.

    This whole paragraph is delusional. Apple users carrying and swapping out batteries? Apple supporting and allowing people to simply swap out a battery instead of going to the apple store for a certified repair? Apple??

  • by Mrirazak1 on 10/30/23, 4:00 AM

    I think Apple’s blue ocean strategy is unique in the sense that it’s not when you feel they should release something but more so when they feel it’s the right time to release something and doing so in an Apple fashion way by being late. Because they make it refined to their standards.

    In terms of blue oceans it’s where they see a lack of innovation because you can have many blue oceans within in anything you do if you see the problems that exist in a way that your competitors don’t and then you apply great engineering with great marketing (although sometimes it’s just marketing) to reach the numbers you need.

  • by Despegar on 10/29/23, 8:39 PM

    If there's going to be removable batteries for any product it will be for new product categories like the Vision Pro. Apple is definitely not going to take established products like the iPhone and change it up just to be different (which isn't a sustainable competitive advantage because anyone can do it). Even with the Vision Pro it's a compromise that Apple is likely tolerating, rather than what the 'final form' of the product will be in 10 or 15 years.
  • by s3p on 10/30/23, 1:49 AM

    This article frustrates me.

    >Starting in 2009, Apple began to phase out removable batteries across its laptop line in favor of batteries that were sealed inside the case and were not user-accessible. >The upsides, which Apple touted, were many: lighter weight, smaller size, better reliability, longer battery life.

    What are you talking about? The link provided to Apple's press release for that laptop did not include anything about why a non-removable battery was advantageous. They provided other reasons the new battery was great, but they did not say the elimination of user-serviceability allowed for any of those benefits.

    >The iPhone defied so many other norms that the sealed battery was less remarked upon than it might have been, but it was still noted.

    Noted by who? Remarked upon by who? It sounds like this author is generalizing his own opinions to the entire population. I'm sure this comment sounds nitpicky but I just don't like this kind of fast and loose writing.

  • by throwawaaarrgh on 10/30/23, 3:26 AM

    Their next big move will probably be some AI product that ties together their other offerings into their exclusive platform. The ideal would be that you buy all their products and they automatically learn how you live your life, ancitipate your needs and provide for them seamlessly. Other companies try to do this now but it's not seamless at all. If Apple can use some tricks to identify a user, link all their stuff together, begin predicting needs and popping up solutions for them, all tied into a privacy-first data warehouse (nobody can use your data except you on your Apple devices), that could capture much bigger segments of the worldwide tech product landscape.

    At least, that's my assumption based on their massive spend on infrastructure related to AI. I've been waiting for their cloud hosting project to jump out of stealth mode, if it's still in progress, but maybe it was never intended for anyone other than Apple's use. If that's the case then it makes more sense that they'd sort of pull a Google and invest more heavily in the backend server side for one product that could really be a killer, which would most likely be something AI. An answer to Google's search product that isn't search.

  • by emadabdulrahim on 10/29/23, 10:51 PM

    The first half of the article was great. But regarding going back to replaceable batteries, I couldn't disagree more. If you know anything about Apple's design philosophy, you'd know the last thing Apple wants is for users to even consider opening up their device to replace/swap a battery.
  • by al_be_back on 10/30/23, 9:43 AM

    I much doubt that giants such as Microsoft, Apple etc, rely on strategies such as "Blue/Red Ocean", it's too fancy/romantic to be practical at their level. They tend to focus on established markets, which is very messy and competitive.
  • by Sparkyte on 10/30/23, 4:40 AM

    More like comparing wallgardens with few open tech standards.

    I was going to rant. But it is pointless. These companies find ways to hold customers because of their tailored experiences and it has less to do with technology and more with targeting.

  • by dwighttk on 10/30/23, 11:31 AM

    I can’t really picture how removable batteries would work, but I do admit it’d be nice to be able to replace them… at least for like $25-50 max.
  • by fnordpiglet on 10/29/23, 9:51 PM

    I’d rather have hot swappable batteries where you have a ten minute battery in the device and the main battery can be swapped out on the fly.
  • by Synaesthesia on 10/29/23, 9:37 PM

    It could be easily done. Sadly Apple doesn’t seem to view that in its interest, despite its repeated claims to care about the environment.

    They could make slick, elegant devices which are still repairable and have replaceable batteries.

    I remember the original iMac G5 had a great design which let you simply remove the backplate with 3 screws and access everything. Of course in the next iteration they changed the design entirely so that opening it up became a huge ordeal.

  • by marban on 10/30/23, 4:39 AM

    Tech success is less about envisioning the future but more about forgetting the past.
  • by bravoetch on 10/29/23, 9:01 PM

    Please make them cheaper and sustainable instead of adding removable batteries.
  • by mensetmanusman on 10/30/23, 2:29 AM

    Please make twist on cylinder battery replacements for the AirPods…
  • by ugizashinje on 10/30/23, 8:51 AM

    Non US resident here, I just switched from macbook 13 to system76 lemur. Half the price and double performance, could not be happier. Market is ready for segmentation and users today are more tech savvy then before.
  • by hn_throwaway_99 on 10/29/23, 8:43 PM

    I'm all for Apple reversing their long-standing decision to make device batteries non-user-replaceable - an original decision which I personally loath, and one where the EU will most likely force Apple's hand anyway by requiring batteries to be user-replaceable.

    But excuse me while I throw up in my mouth a little with this "Blue Ocean" nonsense. Apple makes an original, user-hostile decision for the sole purpose of increasing planned obsolescence and to make them more money, and then when the winds shift they might go back the other way - but, again, they'll likely be forced to anyway. No need for poetic blog posts.

    I suppose we're owed another "Blue Ocean" missive about how Apple led the way with Lightning connectors and then found another Blue Ocean with ... USB-C. Puhleeez.

  • by 1letterunixname on 10/30/23, 4:11 AM

    Nintendo died by hiding in the corner, being afraid to compete, not making anything cool, and instead making something nobody wanted in a category too small to sustain itself.
  • by mruniverse on 10/30/23, 3:13 AM

    I thought Apple's Blue Ocean stuff were:

    * Macintosh

    * iPhone

    * Apple Store

  • by Condition1952 on 10/29/23, 8:59 PM

    removable batteries was to allowed the laptop to run without a battery pack for as long as needed
  • by tpmx on 10/29/23, 9:10 PM

    Waterproof batteries, transferring power to the device via induction? Then the bay where they are installed wouldn't need to be glued shut.