from Hacker News

Windows 10 warns me to use a "Microsoft-verified" app

by mrich on 10/16/23, 9:23 AM with 184 comments

• by defrost on 10/16/23, 10:20 AM

  The very latest MS Windows 10 update (last weeks) is down right deceptive in its Edge pimping.

  After reboot I had a notification message "Make your Computer Faster".

  I wouldn't touch one of them with a 40 foot pole on the open web but this was an official MS message in notifications so I figured it was worth a look as it might be some general advice about official new MS tools for tweaking, booting faster, cleaning dead files, newest iteration of the usual stuff.

  It immediately launched into an MS Edge installation that had to be killed via process explorer. no dialog about "do you want to?" etc.

  MS really has gone beyond the pale here.

• by Phemist on 10/16/23, 10:12 AM

  Microsoft uses all dirty tricks in the book to keep their users on the default browser (which is of course MS Edge).

  Legal..? I'm sure their lawyers think it is?

  I posted about this before, but MS got fined before by the EU for this kind of OS/Browser bundling in the late 2000s. For a while, we had an option at installation on Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8 to choose our browser.

  These were still the days of Internet Explorer, so I don't know how much MS not having a competent browser factored into this decision, but I was really surprised that with a recent fresh install I did, this browser choice prompt was gone. Not to mention all the roadblocks thrown up by MS while trying to install an alternative browser...

• by mrweasel on 10/16/23, 10:49 AM

  I still fail to understand Microsofts obsession with getting people to use Edge. Apples developers and ships Safari, but if you don't use it who cares, you're still on a mac running macOS (iPhone is a slightly different story).

  Shipping a good and fast browser with Windows is perfectly fine, many will use it, some won't. Why do Microsoft care? The users are still running Windows. If anything this seems to undermine the value Microsoft place on Windows as a platform. Why not focus on making Windows better and if users want to use Windows to run Firefox or Chrome that's their choice.

  I really don't see what value pushing Edge has to Microsoft. Are they just pining for the good old days of IE dominance? They dropped their own browser engine, so they obviously don't want to spend that much money on browser development, so why spend any at all?

• by pbhjpbhj on 10/16/23, 11:59 AM

  Latest "Windows Update" added an Edge icon back to my app bar. They actually had the reasonable behaviour for the search box, "do you want to keep it"; but the Edge icon gets stuffed without any option.

  I looked, again, at how to remove Edge ... I don't have the will power for their shenanigans, they won that one.

  Over the last few years MS have actually done quite a few things that would have changed my opinion of them. But they always back it to with a reminder they're still awful.

  Prior to this was the convoluted process to buy Minecraft, my third time buying it, but first time buying a game from Microsoft. Jeez-louise, I needed three accounts: the child who is getting it, an adult to authorise the child to get it, and an Amazon account (somehow!?) to buy it ... having bought it, it was not simple to install it. They can't sell software, they have to control you, it's like signing up for an abusive relationship.

• by 5- on 10/16/23, 10:11 AM

  (2020).

  https://web.archive.org/web/20201020162028/https://support.m...

  (it would really help if technical content was dated)

• by vesinisa on 10/16/23, 11:27 AM

  How in the unholy mother's pillow is this legal?? Didn't MS get pretty heavily sanctioned both in the EU and the US for using its operating system to push for its browser? The US case was only settled when the government threatened to dissolve Microsoft Corp and break it into commercially independent parts (like Standard Oil was dissolved in 1911). And the EU case resulted in Microsoft having to add for European Windows users a post-install dialog where they could directly choose to install any browser of their liking.

  It seems like they are at it again. Really hope the DOJ is not gonna settle this time around (repeat offender and all) and actually see it through that Edge, Bing and Windows are actually spun off to independent subsidiaries that can not collude to illegally manipulate the consumers.

• by addicted on 10/16/23, 10:39 AM

  All of this started immediately after the U.S./EU’s limitations on MS from their antitrust case ended.

  The US /EU protected the world from 20 or so years of this BS. I suspect Google, Firefox, Chrome, Social Media, maybe even Apple’s resurgence, etc as we know it would not have happened if it wasn’t for the them preventing MS from abusing their monopoly in the most blatant manner.

• by 93po on 10/16/23, 2:33 PM

  I did a fresh install of Windows for a friend and I spent literally 30 minutes trying to figure out how to download Chrome. Edge refused to download it because it was dangerous, and I could not figure out for the life of me which setting to turn off to allow it. I googled it and found some suggestions, but everything I tried didn't seem to work. It was ultimately many settings changes (not sure which it was that helped) and restarting twice that allowed it.

  I will never use Windows again on any computer I own. Even if I want to do desktop PC gaming again, it won't be on Windows.

• by anoncow on 10/16/23, 10:08 AM

  Even if it is not legal, it is only a fine. Everything is fine.

• by mrich on 10/16/23, 9:23 AM

  Windows 10 warns when launching the Firefox installer, suggests using MS Edge instead.

• by lhoff on 10/16/23, 11:02 AM

  I would assume malice but Outlook informed me today that it deactivated the "Microsoft Teams Meeting Add-in for Microsoft Office" because it caused Outlook to open items slowly.

  So if halon's razor ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.") is anything to go by it might be not on purpose, but who knows.

• by varispeed on 10/16/23, 10:09 AM

  That warning looks like a mob protection racket.

  Governments really need to get a tight grip on those out of control corporations.

• by iamsaitam on 10/16/23, 10:09 AM

  Ah yes, why make a better product when you can just resolve to dirty tactics.

• by dvh on 10/16/23, 10:19 AM

  In 2023 there is only 1 legitimate use of MS Windows - your customer wants your software or website tested on windows. That's it.

• by nickstinemates on 10/16/23, 11:06 AM

  Thankfully, PCI Passthrough in QEMU/Proxmox is good enough to run games in a Windows sandbox.

  I spent the last 1.5 years making Windows a good development environment (supported by a home lab/san that is pure linux,) but I am increasingly frustrated at the user hostility from Microsoft.

  I have so many layers of outgoing connection filtering, custom windows rules to disable telemetry, etc, but still cannot get away from the dark patterns that is the modern day Windows experience.

  So, Linux it is.

• by danpalmer on 10/16/23, 11:21 AM

  I'm generally in favour of OSes encouraging signed executables from known developers with basic oversight by default. Apple do this, I can and do bypass it, but many don't need to. It's not a huge burden for the sort of software most people tend to run.

  But that's not what this is.

  By saying "oh by the way go and get our browser instead" it's clear that Microsoft aren't just checking known signing keys, they are directly targeting Firefox and using that knowledge to present high-intent users with an alternative.

  It betrays their real intentions, and that's something lawyers love.

• by jussij on 10/16/23, 12:16 PM

  These days, Windows Defender has a habit of declaring almost any executable a virus. I can compile a simple 'hello world' C++ code using the Microsoft C++ compiler and the resulting executable is immediately quarantined by Windows Defender as a virus. These numerous false positives begs the question, why is Windows Defender so bad at identifying a virus? Windows Defender appears to be so bad at identifying a virus threat it seems almost worthless? With so many false positives, what happened to Windows Defender to make it so bad at detecting an actual virus?

• by gbil on 10/16/23, 10:11 AM

  Seems that this is triggered when you have a specific setting in Installing Apps from Windows Store and that this happens by default is specific Windows 10 versions

  So doesn't seem widespread to start with - outside of the MS tactics in general which are bull as always. If anyone knows which Win10 version have a restrictive installation method to start with, it will be useful to understand the actual impact

• by Algent on 10/16/23, 10:31 AM

  Also just noticed this morning by clicking on an url in discord I got a windows popup to choose my browser instead of directly opening Firefox.

• by dartharva on 10/16/23, 1:30 PM

  It's hilarious because had Microsoft not pushed Edge so insanely hard, very likely more people would have used it just out of convenience.

  Once you disable the annoying parts it's not a bad browser at all, in fact it leaves both Chrome and Firefox in dust in terms of resource efficiency and speed on Windows.

• by cklaus on 10/16/23, 10:12 AM

  Microsoft faced and lost case on browser wars in the beginning . https://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-proposed-findings...

• by lloyds_barclays on 10/16/23, 10:33 AM

  I thought it was enforcing code signature verification, but no, it's promoting Microsoft Edge.

• by martin-adams on 10/16/23, 12:54 PM

  Interesting that they say that users should select to install applications from "Anywhere", but don't tell the user to revert the changes afterwords, or explain what the implications of this change are.

• by fennecfoxy on 10/18/23, 11:26 AM

  And Apple has their own Apple Approved app store? Hell they even force all browsers to use webkit. I remember they were considering dropping that requirement, but have they?

• by marginalia_nu on 10/16/23, 11:10 AM

  Microsoft has been pulling this shit for 30 years.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code

• by hermitcrab on 10/16/23, 12:51 PM

  I have 'Settings>Apps & features> Choose where to get apps' set to 'anywhere' in Windows 10. What is the default setting? Has it changed?

• by extraduder_ire on 10/16/23, 5:45 PM

  Sad sigh at the line "Run the Firefox Installer again. Your Windows may now allow it to install Firefox. " at the end.

• by rvba on 10/16/23, 11:47 AM

  It is sad that the solution to the nagscreen, is to completely break the thermometer (disable this screen for real unsafe applications).

• by courseofaction on 10/16/23, 10:27 AM

  Two weeks ago M$ bricked my father’s laptop with an update. Reinstalled, bricked it again. Went Mac, not going back.

• by ClickedUp on 10/16/23, 5:58 PM

  Time for another 'United States v. Microsoft Corp.' antitrust law case perhaps?

• by roschdal on 10/16/23, 10:07 AM

  Microsoft is evil. Install Linux.

• by asdefghyk on 10/16/23, 10:20 AM

  Searching words Microsoft Dirty Tricks on Google finds .....MORE

• by stainablesteel on 10/16/23, 1:13 PM

  if you renamed windows to PredatoryOS people would think its fine because satire is acceptable

• by uwagar on 10/16/23, 12:24 PM

  the day they didnt let me have a say on when i update my OS, it was my last day on their platform.

  hello linux.

• by thrownawaysz on 10/16/23, 11:05 AM

  Daily HN rage bait. Sometimes this site is barely any different than reddit or Twitter