by zhte415 on 7/31/23, 1:37 PM with 513 comments
by quartz on 7/31/23, 1:54 PM
- that removable veggie holder in the door looks crazy heavy and super awkward to put back in place (lining up at a sharp angle while gripping likely slick sides)
- you have to open the refrigerator door to get at the freezer
- the door compartments are narrow and probably can't handle odd sized containers
- the shelves have holes in them so anything that drips off that uncovered plate of food gets all over everything below it
- the ice ejector is completely unnecessary in our current world of ice makers. I doubt that fridge has a water line coming into it
- the shelves don't look like they have adjustable height so you're stuck with 3 shelves that can't fit a gallon of milk
by idlewords on 7/31/23, 1:49 PM
This gas oven is so heavy that light in the kitchen gravitationally lenses around it, but it's still going strong and the best oven I ever used.
by helsinkiandrew on 7/31/23, 1:57 PM
by rascul on 7/31/23, 1:47 PM
by epolanski on 7/31/23, 1:53 PM
Point is, the needs of a fridge barely changed in 70 years, the only real expectation we had was that they would become cheaper to buy and run and easier to operate and maintain, all things modern fridges achieved to do.
I would also argue that the ice cube breaker is a non-feature and that shelves being so easily removable is a minus rather than a pro. The ones on the door would easily break and the other ones could be easily pulled (sending every other thing on that shelf on the floor) if something got stuck.
The door shelves also having all of those compartments lead to much poorer local cooling and are arguably worse for hygiene.
In other words: there's reason why we moved from these designs, they had pros and cons and the focus was price and power efficiency.
by dustincoates on 7/31/23, 1:49 PM
by seer on 7/31/23, 2:35 PM
As it stands now it's a heat pump that pumps the heat from your refrigerator into your home. Wouldn't it be possible to create way more energy efficient model that has an outside body? Or even better connects to the AC body you already have outside? Like in the summer it would "help" the AC by being another AC itself, and in the winter it would effectively be "free" as it got its cold from the outside.
I'm sure there's a reason nobody has attempted this (complexity / price) but was just wondering what the data point on something like this would be? Presumably with modern buildings this could be reduced accommodated, especially with geothermal AC being on the rise right now, would be cool to have all your heat pump systems connected to a single loop, sharing efficiency.
by marricks on 7/31/23, 1:47 PM
Every couple years there's a HN link to a blog post about how those appliances were built better in the day. Couple highlights I remember were:
- Parts were dipped in paint rather than sprayed leading to fuller and thicker paint coverage
- Motors had some changes so were actually built to last
Got to imagine fewer electrical/mechanical parts that can fail as well.
[1] https://carolinasantiqueappliances.com/Web/index.php/restore...
by mongol on 7/31/23, 1:50 PM
by ethbr0 on 7/31/23, 1:52 PM
My personal, completely-unsupported theory is it was a combination of 3 qualities.
(1) New types of things, while unlike anything that came before, were still simple and understandable enough that someone without formal engineering training could understand their use and offer improvements.
(2) Engineering was still seen as something that was approachable by anyone, and so more people availed themselves of the design tools it presented.
(3) Manufacturing was physically colocated with design, increasing agility to implement improvements.
Since then, we've moved into geographically disparate manufacturing of such optimized and tightly-packaged systems that as simple of an ask as "Could that light be red instead of green?" requires overwhelming machinations to design and implement, resulting in "Let's just leave it green." (Repeat for every UX component of a system)
by sireat on 7/31/23, 7:32 PM
https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environme...
You can argue that the law is well intentioned and even necessary.
The end result is the same, my old cheapo Scarlett 1500W vacuum from 20 years ago does a better job that, AEG, Electrolux and even my new Miele. All of them are hard limited to 900W.
Then again is it really saving power if you spend 2x time using 900W vacuum instead of 1500W one?
by shagie on 7/31/23, 5:26 PM
The Antique Toaster that's Better than Yours - https://youtu.be/1OfxlSG6q5Y
and
How to design an actually good toaster with lessons from the 1940's - https://youtu.be/bLk1cjZ4ll0
It's not a fridge... but similar design thoughts. There is a recent video about a fridge...
This goofy fridge has a really clever design. It's also kinda terrible. - https://youtu.be/8PTjPzw9VhY
by oliwarner on 7/31/23, 3:19 PM
In demonstration, this fridge full of drawers and runners looks great. In practice, as soon as those metal slides, bearings, runners, etc get cold, normal household air will condense on them. They get wet, they rust, they're suddenly the worst and need replacing. Bearing runners in fridges are just the absolute worst idea.
In the opposite vector, this is why older laundry machines were great: they were simple, powerful machines that never failed because they were just a motor and a rubber band.
by JohnFen on 7/31/23, 5:00 PM
Things now are cheaper, of course. But I'm far from convinced that's a good thing. It means that the things are disposable, and it's one of the things that is advancing ecological destruction.
by Pxtl on 7/31/23, 1:59 PM
My kitchen is overdue for a remodel. I'm going to end up breaking the bank on a full set of Bosch appliances or something, these American-Chinesium products are clownshoes.
by raydev on 8/1/23, 12:36 AM
https://twitter.com/search?q=fridge%2070%20years&src=typed_q...
by erremerre on 7/31/23, 2:17 PM
What I don't understand is, you have done the development, the cost of the rest of things is marginal. Why don't keep giving those features into all microwaves manufactured by the same company?
by sdflhasjd on 7/31/23, 1:46 PM
by _fat_santa on 7/31/23, 1:55 PM
The other thing is the freezer section was not a separate compartment from the fridge. This meant that if you stored anything on the top shelf it would freeze just like the stuff in your freezer, not to mention all the cold you lost every time you opened the door (and speaking of the door, it was effing heavy).
by criley2 on 7/31/23, 1:57 PM
The ice machine looks annoying and inferior (mine automatically drops ice and dispenses it through the door, no touching or work required). Mine also dispenses purified water through the door, a major feature missing here.
Over-use of door space for temperature sensitive goods is a classic refrigerator mistake as it's the warmest section. Combined with the inability to control humidity for fruits vs veg, it's clearly an inferior produce storage system.
I do also have a removable container for fruit/veg, but mine is much better designed for real world use. I can't imagine what a huge and thin door-cage-system would offer you. Total gimmick.
What we don't get to see is how well the temperature is controlled ESPECIALLY between the fridge and freezer. This isn't easy to pull off (and we have degree-accurate settings today) and it's likely that this model runs a lot warmer than we are used to today, especially in the freezer compartment. There's also questions about frost-free operation as many classic units required manual defrost cycles (taking all your food out) while my unit has automatic defrost cycles and guaranteed frost-free operation.
Finally this fridge would have cost $5000+ in todays money. Mine is better in basically every way I can think of and I paid 1/5 the price. I bet mine will last twice as long, use a fraction of the electricity (cost significantly less to operate), and have a fraction of the environmental impact, too.
by renewiltord on 7/31/23, 2:06 PM
- vegetable shelf is in door
- veg shelf is hard to handle
- ice makers beat ice scraper
- fixed height shelves
- Freezer shelf pull out feature is how they are today, but you need to open this fridge to access them
- much lower capacity
Essentially, this fridge is worse than present day fridge but you could build it today if you wanted and have a failed fridge company that made shitty fridges.
by starbugs on 7/31/23, 1:46 PM
This summarizes it quite well for me.
by techdmn on 7/31/23, 2:07 PM
by brenainn on 7/31/23, 3:29 PM
No touch screen but the controls are capacitive which is a bummer. The ice maker isn't plumbed, you fill up an internal container so no water line to worry about. Little details I like about it like how the ice draw is lined with foam to dampen the noise when the ice drops in. It has this weird "super cooling" metal-lined draw, intended for storing leftovers without freezing them. I never used it until I realised it's really good at chilling beer. Made in Japan for what that's worth. Time will tell if it craps out early but I have a good feeling about it.
by nickdothutton on 7/31/23, 2:27 PM
by jpl56 on 7/31/23, 3:46 PM
New equivalent fridges didn't even had a door for spreadable butter, so I didn't buy any without continuing searching bot the best one.
Then I realized the lamp never turns off when I close the door. The door sensor isn't easy to replace, I just removed the bulb and bought a rechargeable closet lamp with a movement sensor online. 12 euros. Problem solved.
Btw I read here I should check the power consumption, we have a rather easy way to do it in France.
by MeteorMarc on 7/31/23, 1:56 PM
by c-linkage on 7/31/23, 1:57 PM
It's cost me $400 to replace both drawers -- 1/3 the cost of a new refrigerator.
I wish I had one of these refrigerators; they look virtually unbreakable! And even if it did break, I could hammer it back into shape or weld it back together at home.
[1] She's bent both her house key and her car key, and broken the car's shifter twice!
by talkingtab on 7/31/23, 2:20 PM
If you think about that last sentence, what they can sell is not "what customers want". And therein lies the problem and the question. Why is it that those two things are not equivalent? The ratio of things that are what I want to buy compared to what I buy is surprisingly low. That ratio is probably highest at Ikea.
I use Amazon a lot and searching for "things as I want them" is surprisingly hard. I often search for something then try to find the best lowest price ones that have the highest ratings. Like which refrigerator has the most stars and the most reviews at the lowest price. Amazon does not want you to shop that way, because it would affect their bottom line. (thanks a lot amazon!).
So my take is that how we shop determines what companies can sell and that - in turn - determines what kind of things we can buy.
The stupidest example of the problem that I can think of is a dish rack for washing dishes. The number of really bad/over priced products is enormous at both Amazon and IRL Walmart. One day (out of many) Walmart actually had a FUNCTIONAL REASONABLY PRICED DISH RACK. I bought it. Best dish rack ever. Best price (and yes it did come with a drain tray and eating utensil holder).
In my opinion it is stupid that it is so hard to find and pay a reasonable price for a simple functional item.
by LorenPechtel on 7/31/23, 4:00 PM
Why is the ice ejector in the cold space at all? That should be a countertop tool, it's just wasting space.
Slide-out shelves increase the chance of knocking things off and they're almost certainly not adjustable.
I see *one* good feature--everything in the door has covers which means it doesn't warm up as much when you open the door. I'd like to see that in the whole fridge--everything is behind doors to minimize air spill and make it clear exactly where the load limit is.
by culebron21 on 8/1/23, 6:10 PM
First, the sliding shelves. I can see a package get stuck in the upper shelf, and then when the shelf moves, fall down behind, onto the lower shelf, making it impossible to push the moved shelf back and close the fridge. And it's not something rare -- sometimes I have plastic bags freeze to the back wall. Or something sticking up into the upper shelf. With still shelves nothing wrong happens to these, but with moving one it does and would annoy consumer.
Second, the box in the door on hinges... As soon as someone lets it drop-open, they'll have it break both the hinges and stopping points, and get feet injure. I had a similar thing happen with a piece of furniture. This will require a big repair of the entire door.
The ice cubes feature is interesting. But you have those in your fridges today with some bottle dispenser, etc. I mostly saw these features being idle.
So, as usual the featured fridge has nice features that failed the test of life.
My current fridge of choice is Liebherr brand, which makes them simple (no digital stuff), with very convenient shelves, and very quiet.
by bastardoperator on 7/31/23, 4:34 PM
by locallost on 7/31/23, 2:02 PM
by someguy7250 on 7/31/23, 3:10 PM
I hope old tech gets a comeback. I hope it creates more local jobs for phone repairs and software customizations. But it's probably just me being stupid.
by nathancahill on 7/31/23, 1:55 PM
by gpvos on 7/31/23, 2:11 PM
by francisofascii on 7/31/23, 1:58 PM
by hindsightbias on 7/31/23, 3:17 PM
But does that still work out if it's a crappy fridge that fails every few years?
by MostlyStable on 7/31/23, 4:17 PM
However, it does seem to me like _lots_ of things are getting worse over time, through a combination of removal of features (phones: IR blaster, FM radio, headphone jack, etc), addition of features (kitchen appliances: wifi connectivity, touchscreens, etc.), or lack of repairability (everything).
by K0balt on 7/31/23, 2:12 PM
Surely an app that can be cobbled together from some no code framework that we will stop maintaining in 18 months (but you can’t defrost or adjust your temperature without it) will add just as much value, but at zero marginal cost!
Plus, we can’t harvest data from useful physical features!
Bits > bolts!
But the worst part is , bits>bolts is actually very applicable in many cases.
It’s just universal enshitification that has made that axiom in to a sad joke.
by gbraad on 7/31/23, 2:22 PM
Built like a tank. Imagine Indiana Jones getting onto a fridge from now and try to survive a nuclear blast.
by dirtyid on 8/1/23, 12:32 AM
by kozzz on 7/31/23, 5:26 PM
by ElectronBadger on 7/31/23, 2:34 PM
by spacecadet on 7/31/23, 3:32 PM
by sampo on 7/31/23, 3:01 PM
by neuralRiot on 8/1/23, 8:16 PM
by johnea on 7/31/23, 3:23 PM
by alberth on 8/1/23, 1:11 AM
Cheap things mean there are made disposable.
We have way more options today to make cheap disposable goods than what existed 70 years ago.
by gok on 7/31/23, 2:16 PM
by pfdietz on 7/31/23, 2:53 PM
by dahwolf on 7/31/23, 9:04 PM
by SteveNuts on 7/31/23, 2:20 PM
by uhtred on 7/31/23, 2:54 PM
by rhaway84773 on 7/31/23, 5:21 PM
by LocalH on 7/31/23, 3:07 PM
The old ideal of "make really good, quality products and you'll prosper" has given way to "make really shitty products that people will pay for anyway, and you'll prosper more"
by sva_ on 7/31/23, 3:14 PM
by lakomen on 7/31/23, 1:49 PM
by cmsonger on 7/31/23, 2:12 PM
by toss1 on 7/31/23, 1:53 PM
>> "capitalism breeds innovation" haha
Indeed, in many areas, 'capitalism' has not produced innovation that benefits anyone using the products, but merely increases the ratio of cash extracted from buyers in return for reduced value provided by sellers.
by Vicinity9635 on 7/31/23, 4:42 PM
by bayindirh on 7/31/23, 1:51 PM
The complete version is "Capitalism breeds innovation for getting consumers' money out of their hands".
by Apreche on 7/31/23, 1:56 PM
If you want a fair comparison, go spend $20k+ on big fancy commercial refrigerator. I guarantee it will be better than the '50s model.
Just to throw one more comparison. It is not shocking to say that a Rolex watch or a Leica camera from decades ago is better than a Swatch or a cheap point+shoot today.
TL;DR: It's not true that they were better at making things in the olden times. It's true that luxury high end goods are superior to mass produced goods.
by vpastore on 7/31/23, 1:59 PM
by ReptileMan on 7/31/23, 2:04 PM
by toldyouso2022 on 7/31/23, 2:01 PM
Just some thoughts