by pps on 7/25/23, 2:14 PM with 255 comments
by thiht on 7/25/23, 7:29 PM
It’s no surprise HN is skeptical about « yet another browser », so here’s what I like specifically about Arc:
- it supports tab tiling. I can see 2 tabs next to one another easily. This is NOT solved with window tiling, it’s clunky and clutters the space.
- it’s vertical tab support is good, and beautiful. Firefox also has vertical tabs via Sidebery and TreeStyleTab, but it’s pretty awful. It hacks on side panels to implement something looking like tabs, but the look and feel honestly sucks
- theming is very easy and beautiful. Also it works by « space »
- lots features dedicated to avoiding tab cluttering:
1. Tabs can auto close when inactive
2. Links that should open a new tab don’t open a new tab by default, they open a pop-in that I can expand to a dedicated tab if I want
3. Links outside of Arc (in a mail client, in a terminal…) don’t open a new tab, they open in a unique Arc window (Little Arc), and I can expand them in a dedicated tab if I want
4. Spaces and profiles allow to organize the tabs properly
- it also integrates with a few websites, for example it can display infos directly on some non-open tabs. On my GitHub tabs, it shows the number of PRs awaiting my review. If I hover on my Google Agenda tab, it display a small agenda for the day without opening a tab
I’m sure I forget a few things that I like. None of these features individually would make me switch to Arc, but seeing all of it at once made me try it, and I don’t regret it.
Also their release notes are fun to read.
by Terretta on 7/25/23, 8:05 PM
Orion Browser by Kagi: Very fast. Zero telemetry.
Lightweight, natively built with WebKit, made for you and your Mac. Industry-leading battery life, privacy respecting by design and native support for web extensions.
Orion supports Firefox and Chrome browser extensions natively. Whether you prefer getting them from the Chrome Web Store or Firefox Add-Ons... as well as bringing support for as many as we can to iOS…
by bambax on 7/25/23, 3:39 PM
> Agrawal decided early on not to try and rebuild the whole browser stack, and based Arc on Chromium like everyone else.
Ladybird this ain't. More like YACI (yet another chromium implementation).
by chrisoconnell on 7/25/23, 3:33 PM
A browser, un no circumstances, should be log-in walled.
Seemed like a great user experience as a browser, but unfortunately I uninstalled it as soon as I launched it to a sign in screen.
by thejosh on 7/25/23, 3:53 PM
Requires sign in on launch... https://i.imgur.com/89Oegnf.jpeg
by JohnFen on 7/25/23, 3:28 PM
by rswerve on 7/25/23, 8:14 PM
by lycos on 7/25/23, 3:18 PM
The "why do i need an account" popup doesn't properly explain it to me either, syncing should be optional - let me use, or at least try, it without an account first.
by dang on 7/25/23, 7:40 PM
Arc from the Browser Company - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34795780 - Feb 2023 (3 comments)
What's Good About the Arc Browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33932045 - Dec 2022 (6 comments)
Thoughts on Arc Browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33539549 - Nov 2022 (83 comments)
The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33414565 - Oct 2022 (90 comments)
Arc Browser Company: Chrome and Safari face a new challenger - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31544988 - May 2022 (125 comments)
by rmdashrfv on 7/25/23, 4:38 PM
Something really gets under my skin with the way they talk about Arc on their website. There is nothing on their website that means anything. Previously the headline of their website was literally "Arc is a browser". Are you kidding?
It then went on to say that it's everything I care about. Really? How is that? What do I care about? Are you sure you know what I care about? Then finally it asks me if I'm ready to let go of the old internet.
If you're going to say stuff like this, I think most of us at least on HN would expect them to be doing something where the benefits are very apparent. Or at the least, they'd have rebuilt the browser from the ground up. It's built on Chromium and therefore will have similar issues and limitations.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Chromium, I'm happy to use such a browser but I think it's time Arc decided to explain what their goal is using English, or something we can actually understand.
by cowsup on 7/25/23, 3:29 PM
Changing the color of my browser isn’t really something I find worthwhile. Nor is moving the URL bar to the left; my monitor is more wide than tall, so it’s easier on my eyes and for moving my mouse to just look up as opposed to the left for navigation.
Competing against Chrome is interesting, although it’s still powered by Chromium, so nothing changes there. They are still at the mercy of features Google decides are worth pursuing, rather than W3C.
Otherwise… Good luck.
by H12 on 7/25/23, 10:36 PM
This is due to a number of things, like the degree of UI polish and a UX I personally find very intuitive, but I think the biggest factor comes down to their features around tab management. Namely the following:
1. Tabs closing automatically by default unless explicitly pinned 2. Being able to group pinned tabs into folders 3. Pinned tabs remembering their original state (e.g. if I pin a tab, then navigate to some other page, I can click the favicon to return to the original page I pinned) 4. The ability to rename tabs to make them more meaningful 5. Organizing tabs into an easily-collapsible sidebar 6. Having multiple spaces for different "contexts"
These features may not be particularly novel, and I'm sure they could be easily replicates w/ extensions or add-ons, but the fact that things work like this by default and are super easy to manage feels pretty fantastic.
As an example, I recently started rewriting my neovim config, and created a new space called "neovim config" so I could quarantine the tab clutter away from my normal browsing. Then I pinned the GitHub page for my old config so I could reference it easily. And lastly I created folders for "installed plugins", "required plugins" and "optional plugins" to help me organize the GitHub pages of all the plugins I've already installed, plan to install, or merely want to test out. Then if I run into any bugs or need to reference Lua syntax I can open a bunch of ephemeral tabs to stack overflow or whatever and easily clean them up once I'm done.
I know I'm probably sounding like an Arc shill at this point, but I do genuinely feel like Arc is helping me get this work done more efficiently whereas I feel like just about any other browser would be getting in my way. The simplest way I could describe it is it's almost like Trello and Safari had a baby that somehow inherited the best qualities of each, with none of the drawbacks.
by Chevalier on 7/26/23, 2:48 AM
Want vertical tabs? Vivaldi. Side bar? Vivaldi. Workspaces? Vivaldi. Mouse gestures? Vivaldi. Vertical space? Vivaldi. Customizable speed dial? Vivaldi. Keyboard commands? Popout mini-browser? Encrypted sync? Page tiling? Chrome extensions? Multiple types of tab groups? Excellent tools for inspection, screenshotting, etc.? Total anonymity? Everything comes up Vivaldi.
And what's more, Vivaldi actually works for the USER. They spoof their ID (due to Google sabotage) that lets us use Bing Chat without switching to Chrome. They don't even ask for your email address, unlike Arc. They'll GIVE you an email system for free. Vivaldi's openly committed to rejecting Google's Manifest v3 that cripples user control over what information is collected by Google and what extensions a user can use in their own browser.
And yet Vivaldi receives virtually no attention or praise. And Arc has been showered with it for years, despite never shipping a product until today. It's... very strange. This browser is everything I could ever dream of, and it doesn't get a fraction of the attention that Firefox, Brave, or Chrome gets.
Link for Vivaldi, from the same people behind the original Opera: https://vivaldi.com
by danpalmer on 7/25/23, 3:58 PM
However, not every feature is a hit for me. I use the tab management extensively and enjoy the quick action toolbar. I don't see much of their quick-action integrations with particular websites but when I have seen them they've been nice to haves. I don't use the "easels" at all and don't see any need for them or problem they solve for me. I don't find the personalisation all that useful. This does all lead me to wonder if Arc is designed for me, or just happens to currently align well enough with my needs for me to find it valuable. Will they move in a direction away from what I need in the future? Maybe. I hope this is just a feature-maximalism strategy and that it continues to be useful for many in the long term, but I fear that it may become to the web what Hey is to email, where what I want is a more traditional Mimestream/Mail.app.
It is not pushing forwards what the web can be, as I feel many people in these comments are wanting or hoping for, and to be honest I think that's fine. It doesn't need to. We have Mozilla, Google, and Apple, each pushing forwards what the web is in their own ways, in healthy tension with each other.
by jm4 on 7/25/23, 3:42 PM
by capableweb on 7/25/23, 3:17 PM
More on topic, seems it's still a waitlist? I go to their page and see "Join Waitlist" and "Coming in Winter 2023", so maybe page hasn't been properly updated yet?
by MrAlex94 on 7/25/23, 4:10 PM
Monetisation for browsers is incredibly hard, and doing it in a way that respects the end user is even harder. Curious to see their play.
by ktosobcy on 7/25/23, 8:49 PM
It feels worse than chrome while being obnoxious about supposedly being "groundbreaking"...
arc can go shaft itself
by ppetty on 7/25/23, 3:52 PM
Hopefully the competition bodes well for end users with open minds.
by KMnO4 on 7/25/23, 3:32 PM
Immediately following this is a form for me to enter my email address so I can receive a download link. Sorry Arc, that’s not a trade I’m willing to make.
by dns_snek on 7/25/23, 6:39 PM
In other words, when is the rug pull coming and what is it going to look like?
by dlitvakb on 7/25/23, 3:45 PM
It removes a lot of tab anxiety, and helps me organise actual useful links from things that are interesting for just now.
by neontomo on 7/25/23, 3:59 PM
Great:
- Picture in Picture mode automatically when switching tabs from YT, Soundcloud, etc
- Swiping the trackpad with two fingers to switch profiles instantly
- Clean interface
- Clicking links opens a small window for you to quickly check the content, and if you want to continue you can maximise it, or you click the page in the background to return to the page you were on. Speeds up quick reads for me
- Much thought into where to put UI elements
- Some great shortcuts, like copying current URL (Command + Shift + C), clearing tabs (Command + Shift + K)
- The sidebar design doesn't always play nice with websites
- The way you pin extensions is a bit annoying
- I bump into bugs sometimes since it's early days
- I have no interest in using their Notes, Easels or Download system (easily ignored tho)
- Settings have a very "startup-hype" membership card that serves no purpose, while also not having many settings for customisation. Weird choice imo
- No interest in the auto-archive feature, but impossible to turn off
by dbcooper on 7/25/23, 4:13 PM
by KomoD on 7/25/23, 3:32 PM
by karaterobot on 7/25/23, 3:43 PM
by racl101 on 7/25/23, 8:59 PM
by jeron on 7/25/23, 3:07 PM
by chomp on 7/25/23, 3:31 PM
by Brajeshwar on 7/25/23, 3:54 PM
It has been a while when I got the Arc Browser but I could not get myself to get used to the excessive feature. I personally am unable to figure out what to think about it. A younger me would have loved this browser but now, I'm (very personal) more of sticking to the basics/native and spend extra time learning the tips/tricks and the internals to be able to use a tool/system more effectively.
1. https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/the-browser-company
by jrflowers on 7/25/23, 10:33 PM
by fevangelou on 7/25/23, 5:48 PM
It's also kinda patronizing to say "here's how the browser should work" as if people are morons in 2023 and have no clue how to use a browser, let alone their supposed target audience. I'm not even touching the "sign up to continue" issue others mentioned...
The news should actually be they got $18M in funding for this (FFS).
by BeetleB on 7/25/23, 3:48 PM
by twleo on 7/25/23, 7:58 PM
by esafak on 7/25/23, 7:47 PM
by mhh__ on 7/25/23, 3:17 PM
by jFriedensreich on 7/25/23, 3:47 PM
by ianyanusko on 7/25/23, 3:14 PM
by gcanyon on 7/25/23, 9:09 PM
I've noticed recently that Safari uses 1/3 to 2/3 of a gigabyte for each youtube tab, or gmail, or <many other sites>.
Arc uses roughly 25% of that.
Also, Arc's efficiency as tabs build up seems to grow faster than Safari's although that's harder to quantify. But in concrete terms, Safari puts my M1 Air's memory into the yellow in activity monitor almost immediately. Arc regularly stays green with 20-30 tabs open.
There are other nice things to consider, but that's huge for me.
by zamadatix on 7/25/23, 7:49 PM
by peter_d_sherman on 7/26/23, 11:26 AM
https://github.com/nerdyslacker/desktop-web-browsers
List of Headless Web Browsers:
https://github.com/dhamaniasad/HeadlessBrowsers
List of Open Source Web Browsers/Browser Engines:
by renewiltord on 7/25/23, 3:47 PM
Some of the decisions I don't like (my Bitwarden button is hidden by default which makes password filling hard - I don't have it fill automatically on page load), but overall I've enjoyed using it. My favourite features:
- split tabs (I prefer this over tiling in the WM)
- little arc
- PiP works very well for video calls
- I have a bunch of apps pinned (ChatGPT / Gmail / Calendar / Github) and a bunch of tabs below that
- I like the single action bar on Cmd-T
Overall, big fan, and I'd pay some amount for it probably.
by mthoms on 7/25/23, 3:52 PM
Their whole approach is great for minimalists (especially for someone like me with ADHD) but will probably be hated by the many tab hoarders on HN.
If nothing else, I hope Arc inspires other browser makers to think outside the box with stuff like this.
by mikelward on 7/25/23, 3:28 PM
by ahurmazda on 7/25/23, 3:53 PM
by awill on 7/25/23, 4:53 PM
Just like the hotel in Las Vegas called "The Hotel". Is it arrogance, or ignorance?
by notorandit on 7/25/23, 9:46 PM
They know exactly what is needed for good browsing experience, don't they? :/
by smcleod on 7/25/23, 8:35 PM
by dmak on 7/25/23, 3:32 PM
I can't leave Chrome until I can replace Google's single sign on
by pshirshov on 7/25/23, 4:32 PM
by wkdneidbwf on 7/26/23, 1:29 AM
i think they’re doing some interesting stuff, but i just couldn’t find features or workflows that were safari-killers for me.
by Cupprum on 7/25/23, 8:23 PM
by Decabytes on 7/25/23, 3:41 PM
by ddtaylor on 7/26/23, 1:19 AM
by Sebastian_09 on 7/25/23, 3:31 PM
by thund on 7/25/23, 4:02 PM
by tibbydudeza on 7/25/23, 7:50 PM
The problem is that the Swift for Windows platform is not really a thing.
by dizhn on 7/25/23, 3:22 PM
I don't think I want to have anything to do with this company. Super cringe.
I get the impression that Arc will be a form over function product reflecting someone's understanding of good design and insisting on it. Not that I'd use a closed source browser anyway.
by sammy2255 on 7/25/23, 4:12 PM
by jachee on 7/25/23, 11:33 PM
No. Never. Put the download link on your website.
by ryanolsonx on 7/25/23, 4:47 PM
by samcat116 on 7/25/23, 9:03 PM
by albertop on 7/26/23, 12:30 AM
by jccalhoun on 7/25/23, 3:50 PM
by spondyl on 7/25/23, 8:29 PM
There are some features like the ability to "peek" into a webpage or Little Arc which is really handy for SSO popups without changing full focus to the browser that makes other browsers feel like a step down.
That said, and maybe this will change post-1.0, there were a lot of basic bugs that popped up over time like tabs disappearing from the sidebar, tabs "syncing" into the void because the browser blindly copied state from another browser, tabs that can't be closed and so on.
Generally these are fixed and don't happen all at once but when they do, it rubs up against the new features being touted to make you feel insane. "Boosts are great but I just want the browser to stop interfering so I can do some work"
Anyway, it's a bit like stockholm syndrome sometimes. I love it and anything else is a downgrade but it also keeps hurting me but nowhere near enough to outweigh the benefits.
As far as support goes, it feels bit like they're a victim of success. Almost every ticket used to get a response but now I rarely hear anything which makes the canned "We value your feedback" feel hollow. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Support has changed. It's just a somewhat unavoidable outcome when you start as part of a niche and the userbase rapidly grows, making replying to everything untenable.
In all, I'm glad there is a new entrant. Would a new engine be nice? Sure but differentiating a browser and building a full rendering engine at the same time is a bit of a tall order off the bat.
Perhaps if they had a cash generating machine already like Google did. It'll be interesting to see if that changes in future (I assume it won't be who knows) and they're doing a lot of interesting work porting Swift to Windows (their strategy for porting Arc)
I'm still a daily user since things have been solid for the last little while but I do wonder how things might degrade (enshittify) given a future need to return VC investment. You can learn a bit about their monetisation thinking here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eVda3zFLlhc
Lastly, I'll plug their YouTube channel which is interesting: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheBrowserCompany
Particularly the videofile series which talks a lot about their internal workings, metrics and so on. There are times that I've had bad bugs or a new feature was ill received and then the next videofile confirms they've seen that reaction in bulk too
by itslennysfault on 7/25/23, 3:27 PM