from Hacker News

NeetoCal, a calendly alternative, is a commodity and is priced accordingly

by jasim on 7/19/23, 1:11 PM with 88 comments

  • by xnx on 7/19/23, 1:53 PM

    Google Calendar recently improved appointment scheduling (including through a public page): https://workspace.google.com/resources/appointment-schedulin...

    Rough reminder for Calendly (and similar) that it's a feature, not a company.

  • by grhac on 7/19/23, 2:54 PM

    Its incredibly hard to build a "product" and also run a services business. Ultimately the services business will take priority, simply because each deal represents significant $$.

    I predict this product will become a sideshow, generate $50-100k/yr over a few years and be sold off, of course unless you start to focus on the product and get rid of the consulting gigs.

    If you do turn into a product business you will quickly realize $4/mth is not even remotely sustainable when you add ANY kind of marketing spend (or sales/success people). Just too low. You cannot make it work. Your customer acquisition costs will cost 12-24+ months MRR, and SMB churn is brutal. typical 30%+/yr. Even at $10/mth/user its a slog. Which is why you see other calendly alternatives charging $10-30/mth/usr at min.

    Good luck.

  • by gerad on 7/19/23, 1:24 PM

    First time I've seen something like this discussed so honestly. I suspect it won't be the last time. Hopefully to the benefit of consumers.
  • by ftio on 7/19/23, 2:10 PM

    This is a masterclass in organic go-to-market.

    Straightforward and clear-eyed writing, and subtle, almost cynical positioning perfectly suited for the HN crowd. That is: "This is easy stuff to build. Price is the main differentiator in this category."

  • by KnobbleMcKnees on 7/19/23, 2:18 PM

    >What about marketing and Sales? Won't that cost a lot? Sure, that would cost a lot if you are looking for hypergrowth. Then you need to spend money on ads. We are looking for sustainable growth without spending any money on ads. It means slower growth, but it also means fewer expenses for us. This makes us more sustainable.

    Companies aren't looking for hypergrowth until they are. And that's when prices rise.

    I think it's venerable to address the elephant in the room but then, in a room full of VC-funded startups, neeto _is_ the elephant in that it's intentionally straying from the public-company-or-bust path laid out in front of most tech startups.

  • by TravelTechGuy on 7/19/23, 2:55 PM

    I do not understand why people keep building in that space. Not only is it a niche market, but it can be completely decimated by Google/MS adding a feature to their interface.

    Add to that the non-existing costs of switching between these offerings. I was using the Calendly free tier, and when a feature I wanted was moved off the free tier, it took me all of 30 minutes to move to zcal (most time spent fixing web site, and email signatures).

    Perhaps there's something I'm missing here. Maybe there's a social aspect that escapes me, but I would love to hear from someone building in this space about their motivation and long term goals.

  • by 58x14 on 7/19/23, 1:45 PM

    Cool, I've had "add a personal calendar appointment scheduler feature" on my backlog for months, and for some reason I just didn't want to do Calendly. Maybe it's because I'm pretty averse to overgrown SaaS?

    I like their messaging and I'm more inclined to use a tool ran by a team/company like these guys.

    Consider me a customer... whenever I clean up the backlog

  • by dsalzman on 7/19/23, 2:09 PM

    NeetoCal is $4/user/month for pro

    Calendly is $8/user/month for essentials tier and $12/month for professional tier

    For reference

  • by ttoinou on 7/19/23, 1:42 PM

    What about a website caldendar platform where you only specify which day you will work and can be potentially contacted or not (so we have Not Working, Working Without Meetings, Working With Meetings on some hours) for a sync call ? This way it's not about booking a meeting but letting others know you're available. Does this exist ?
  • by Brajeshwar on 7/19/23, 2:33 PM

    FYI, Cal[1] is an Open Source[2] with a SaaS generous offering whose free version is adequate for most use case. No affiliation but a happy customer since its early days. It was, once, not able to compare with Calendly but has come a long way in a good way.

    1. https://cal.com

    2. https://github.com/calcom/cal.com

  • by kwanbix on 7/19/23, 2:11 PM

    I use TidyCal. It costs 29 one time. More than fair.

    4 dollars per month seems still pretty excessive for the very low resource intensive work of such an app.

    In relation to the prices of Office365/Google Workspace, I don't think this should cost more than 1 euro/dollar per user per month.

    Even if you compare it to much more resources intensive app like Disney Plus, which costs 8 euros per month, how can this cost 4?

  • by iambateman on 7/19/23, 1:36 PM

    This is an interesting approach, but they’re awfully proud of themselves for charging 50% of what calendly charges.

    The biggest cost of a SaaS like this is the cost of sales…so if they can convince enough people with this tactic, it’ll work. But RabdomBugCo is paying Calendly $20k/mo to have an expensive account rep team answer their questions and $1k/mo for the technology.

  • by fakedang on 7/19/23, 2:22 PM

    Just an addendum, these BigBinary folks also helped build Gumroad, so you might definitely want to consider them for Ruby on Rails projects if you need consultants.
  • by alecstewart on 7/19/23, 6:22 PM

    FYI: The company that built this is a heavyweight in the Ruby on Rails domain. They ship some quality Rails blogs which I enjoy reading. Being a Rails developer myself, it really helps to get to know about the new Rails features. https://www.bigbinary.com/blog/rails-7-1-adds-activejob-perf... was one such blog. I was about to do some monkey patching to add this to an application I was working on. Highly recommend their blogs - https://www.bigbinary.com/blog.
  • by 87volvo on 7/19/23, 2:11 PM

    I have such a small but annoying pet peeve about Calendly. It's That if I'm trying to copy my meeting scheduler link and go to just type c ... a... l ... into my browser, my calendars will always come up first, so I have to go all the way to c ... a ... l ... e ... n ... d ... l ... before the link.
  • by refulgentis on 7/19/23, 2:11 PM

    Love the logic and intent but then I see people why people are asking about these subjects on ProductHunt:

    There's two pricing plans "free and all the features" and 4.99/"user"/month if you want to remove their logo.

    That makes it read as self-congratulatory - there isn't a plan for it to be a sustainable investment, and it's not clear it's that cheap either.

    Either pole of "take $10M in funding for a SaaS" and "eh we'll be free 99% and figure literally everything else, from marketing to support to sales, on on the fly" is an extreme.

    To users, the funding one sounds better: at least that maximizes quality, support, and engagement with the company until right-sizing occurs. 0 reason for users to care that it'll feel like "losing" to the founders or that VCs will be disappointed.

  • by latchkey on 7/19/23, 3:08 PM

    zcal is great, but is missing one (actually two) critical features that keeps us on calendly.

    This is the feature... the ability to create a meeting 'poll' with all the members on your team, including external people, and it automatically takes into consideration everyone's availability.

    https://help.calendly.com/hc/en-us/articles/223146447-Let-in...

    The second feature is that I tried to reach out to the zcal support to ask if they had this feature and I could see they read my message, but I never got a response. So, having some sort of decent customer support is another crucial feature.

  • by dotcoma on 7/19/23, 1:25 PM

    Smart strategy discussed very openly. Best of luck.
  • by nearting on 7/19/23, 2:21 PM

    This seems very much aimed at teams on paid tiers at competitors (which admittedly makes sense).

    As an individual user, I find their feature set (https://www.neeto.com/neetocal/features) a bit underwhelming - they present a number of features as things that really any scheduler should have:

    - different meeting durations

    - time zones

    - custom availability

    - cancellation/rescheduling

    - buffer time

    - integrations with Zoom/Google/etc (but not CalDAV, somehow)

    - email notifications, OTP and SSL (what is this, 2013?)

    Personally, I use cal.com, which has all of that, plus is open source and self-hostable. And it interfaces with CalDAV so I'm not locked into Google Calendar.

  • by zharknado on 7/19/23, 2:08 PM

    At first blush a freemium model seems incompatible with framing a product as a commodity. Curious if others have seen examples of that. I’ve never seen “free unlimited bacon,” but I have seen a lot of free samples (trials).

    Seems really tricky to hit the ratios of free/paid users that would make this sustainable. Maybe if free is behind an invite-only volume gate or something. In any case, good luck! The consultancy/product blended model is a cool idea.

  • by zcesur on 7/19/23, 3:36 PM

    as a fellow bootstrapped founder, hats off to the NeetoCal team

    I'm personally using Cal.com, it's free and I'm very happy. I'm also very biased because we interviewed the co-founder/co-ceo [1] and Cal.com uses our platform to reward its open source contributors [2]

    what I love most about Cal is how young developers from around the world learn modern tech by contributing (and getting trained by the team) [3], support is crazy good [4] and the company builds in public, even their salaries and metrics are open [5]. I cannot not be a fan honestly

    [1] https://youtu.be/gymNEH-skAY

    [2] https://algora.io/org/cal

    [3] https://github.com/calcom/cal.com/pulls

    [4] https://discord.gg/NPDU8fhJ

    [5] https://cal.com/open

  • by febusravenga on 7/19/23, 2:09 PM

    Tried few apps from this list and I'm surprised to find that at least 3 of those don't support phone only reservations... Some kind of businesses rely on phone mostly, email is almost not used ... and entering it is major inconvenience
  • by ckdarby on 7/19/23, 1:23 PM

    I purchased TidyCal through Sumo's specials.

    $29 lifetime access as long as Sumo stays in business.

  • by smcleod on 7/19/23, 2:14 PM

    Started reading then got presented with a huge popup overlay / ad telling me to subscribe to their blog. Closed the site. I did like what I started reading about not taking VC funding though - that is very refreshing.
  • by arbaaz on 7/20/23, 1:45 PM

    Try claiming a 3 letter username on cal.com you'll be prompted to pay $29. With neetoCal, you don't.

    I prefer to have short memorable meeting links.

  • by willhackett on 7/19/23, 1:55 PM

    It might be worth mentioning that Fantastical now also has scheduling. It’s my preference because it handles a pending state until I approve.
  • by yeahdef on 7/19/23, 1:28 PM

    i thought this was for actual candy and got excited for minute when i saw there was a free tier
  • by mxuribe on 7/19/23, 1:48 PM

    Didn't the Basecamp folks (DHH, et al) start out this way too? I commend these folks, and for their transparency on this topic! If they can grow at the pace they wish, then good on them. Kudos and best of luck!
  • by aashishsaini on 7/19/23, 1:56 PM

    Amazed to see the price with the features it offers!
  • by entrepy123 on 7/19/23, 4:03 PM

    Great to see the integrations (Stripe, Zoom, Google Meet, Google Calendar, Slack, Daily.co, and Microsoft Teams) [0].

    In general, is there an "open" calendar-sync protocol? Would that be CalDAV (often paired with IMAP mail accounts in my experience)? (But then, would that typically require giving email credentials to the to-be-synced endpoint?)

    One thing that sort of surprises me is that the appointment-scheduling apps seem to have such a practical dependency on Google, if one wants to facilitate syncing with arbitrary external calendars. I get that Calendly has tons of integrations, and Neeto has a useful selection, too. But say I want to sync with Fastmail, which does not have a specific integration with Calendly or Neeeto (but which does support CalDAV/IMAP). The answer is to to mutually sync through a Google Calendar. (I guess a generic "data workflow integrator"--Zapier, IFTTT, or custom code for APIs--might solve this, too, but only at the cost of some additional party and some additional complexity for a glue layer to set up and upon which to rely.)

    - I love having a slick scheduling web page interface as a service. Cool. But why no "generic" sync (CalDAV/IMAP or something better I may not know about)? (It seems weird to not have a more direct-line scheduling approach--is it just me?)

    - For example, I'd like to have no Google dependency, but use Calendly (or, Neeto, or another scheduling service). But even when I don't plan/need/want/intend to use Google, much less for scheduling, Google still finds its way into being the most convenient dependency! Wow!

    This wasn't meant to be a rant, so, apologies if it reads that way. I get that building a SaaS, the first integrations will be the ones that >90% of the target probably uses. It's just slightly boggling to me, though, that there seems to be literally no open-tech solution in place. Since even the 500 lb gorillas seem to not have it, it's not just a matter of scale/time. Maybe just literally not enough people would use it, period, I guess. Or does one of the many competitors do this?

    So-- what's going on? Why's calendar syncing kinda convoluted? (Some reading online tells a similar story for a big company's mail product requiring specific sync tools as of late; so I think the issue is not limited to purely-scheduling apps or smaller companies.)

    Does this plight register with others? To me, if the product/service truly is a commodity, then that might imply having a corresponding "common" open/standard tech-integration component--no? I suspect something about security, or maybe lock-in, or market size, or maybe ruthless focus on schedule-making (new bookings on top of existing ones) over schedule-syncing, but I don't know enough about it. I would think this might be an area where one of the competitors might be able to stand out, for a niche within the niche.

    I'd be happy to be schooled on this, if anyone's willing.

    [0] https://www.neeto.com/neetocal/features/integrations

  • by dave4420 on 7/19/23, 1:32 PM

    No API?