from Hacker News

‘I don’t want to become San Francisco’: Urban woes spur state action on housing

by imichael on 6/27/23, 6:44 PM with 29 comments

• by sacnoradhq on 6/27/23, 11:54 PM

  Sacramento has "San Francisco" problems in abundance downtown. These are the problematic areas: downtowns. Sacramento is a galaxy of areas much more than its tiny downtown: there are a lot of good areas that are still good. The thing though is Sacramento, like SF, has a problem where naked unhoused people urinate in the middle of the lawn of the main library at the height of rush hour traffic.

  The fundamental problems or urban center area that changed are twofold:

  1. The quiet quitting (nonenforcement) and understaffing of police departments. Austin TX has a deficit of 200 police officers with no path or budget to remedy this issue and ignore virtually all calls unless they are both ongoing and violent. The result is theft and open season on stores. Stores now have armed security contractors. The ones who can't afford this level of security go out of business. Therefore, high-profit corporate convenience stores are the only ones who stay in business.

  2. Elected DA's refuse to prosecute people alleged to have committed theft, property crime, and violent crime because they happen to be poor or brown. This leads to an eye for arrest and indictment of white males in urban centers to balance the stats to fit a narrative.

  It should be underscored that the problematic areas are small (except SF and LA) and are addressable without violating anyone's rights. DAs willing to prosecute crime and funding PDs would bring the morale back to LEOs.

  Addressing beyond 1. and 2. would require a nationwide federal housing program to voluntarily relocate people to cheaper areas with comprehensive social services that aren't typical of America. Not easy, cheap, or simple but this and 1. and 2. seem holistically comprehensive.

• by 8f2ab37a-ed6c on 6/27/23, 9:19 PM

  Is it simply the case of the majority of SF voters, who somehow locked in real estate years ago, not wanting to increase supply of housing in order to maximize their own wealth? Could one argue that this is democracy working as intended, even if you don't think it's "fair" to certain demographics?

• by yieldcrv on 6/27/23, 8:36 PM

  > “Every state in the country other than California is saying, ‘I don’t want to become California,’ and every other city is like, ‘I don’t want to become San Francisco,’”

  including cities in Socal

  love this, never change SF, zoning reform (everywhere else) needs you

• by thephyber on 6/28/23, 1:55 AM

  Let’s take an inventory of what issues are exclusive to SF:

    - zoning restrictions: no
    - NIMBYs: no
    - too little housing supply: no
    - too much housing demand: no
    - Prop 13 (1979): no (all of Cali)
    - SF rent control (1979) yes
    - CEQA (1970+): no
    - limited space on a peninsula: yes
  

  I’m glad other jurisdictions are learning from the mistakes of San Francisco, but they should learn from all of them, not just the convenient ones to avoid.

• by BenFranklin100 on 6/27/23, 10:37 PM

  It’s good some cities are looking towards reform, but I disagree with thesis Democrat cities across the US see San Francisco as a cautionary tale. Heavy Democratic areas like Boston metro are stuck in the 1990s. Mayor Michelle Wu is proposing rent control and other MA cities are maintaining onerous inclusionary zoning regs that stifle new construction.

• by belval on 6/27/23, 10:07 PM

  Imagine a reputation (real or imagined) so bad that everyone sees you as a cautionary tale.

• by Affric on 6/28/23, 7:46 AM

  This is ludicrous.

  We are currently undergoing one of the largest changes in how people live in the developed world since the public housing boom at the end of the Second World War. We are on the precipice of the end of the age of the office.

  Apologies because I don't have access to the raw data or know how US Census data is structured but from the 2020 census (I know that I have missed Queens/Staten Island, Jersey City and that Counties don't equate to cities in the US but the portal sucks): COUNTY per sq mile NY, NY 74781 KG, NY 39438 BX, NY 34920 SF, CA 18629 SU, MA 13698 PH, PA 11937 BT, MA 7235 CK, IL 5583

  It's the most densely populated county outside of New York.

  There are problems in American Urbanism. Single family zoning is a big one. But it's overly reductionist to put it down to single family zoning. The fact is SF has a whole heap of factors driving demand. If you think that it will become more affordable you're wrong. What we will see is the cheapest possible highest profitability developments. Apartments and neighbourhoods for adults with no children and the super wealthy.

  There will be no medium density because there is no one group for whom it is maximum amenity. The wealthy don't care because they can just by nice luxury apartments in the brave new world. Individuals/Families with adults and no children and property developers are fine with small apartments. The majority of families would prefer the status quo. You will end up with cheap shitty apartments maxing the quota for affordable housing, luxury many roomed penthouses making up the quota for family dwellings, and you will end up with a city with no children and truly not an improvement per dollar on housing affordability and amenity.

  San Francisco is a victim of its own success. Rather than attempt to create demand elsewhere through a rethinking of American Urbanism they want to cram more people into the most densely populated county outside of NYC.

• by paul_grisham on 6/28/23, 4:38 AM

  People know adding a lane to a highway doesn't reduce traffic but think adding more apartments reduces rents. The solution to homelessness is clear - arrest them.