by Freddie111 on 6/11/23, 5:10 PM with 1142 comments
by wpietri on 6/11/23, 5:25 PM
The reason Reddit is valuable is not the few execs making these (IMHO terrible) decisions. It's the thousands of mods and the millions of people creating and organizing the content that I go there to read. Until those people are happy with things, I'm not going back.
by OldManRyan on 6/11/23, 6:48 PM
Engagement is a power curve. Most content is created by a small subset of users. I think it is a fair to say that if you use and especially pay for third party tools, whether that be a client or something like RES, you are more than likely a power user. If you moderate a subreddit, you're probably a power user. If those power users go away then you lose a large swath of content and moderation which negatively affects the regular users at other parts of the curve. It is not going to be immediate but this is reddit slowly bleeding itself to death.
by eksapsy on 6/11/23, 7:11 PM
Like it's literally like saying "hey I need you in my life". Do you know what message that sends? What would you think if your customers would say "hey Im not gonna come for 3 days but I'm coming for the rest of the year" ? Would you give a damn?
Reddit is a commodity. Admittedly a great one. Used to be at least. We'll create another one or they'll fix themselves, but they won't unless they know you're not going to use them unless they fix themselves.
No strike is successful unless you actually make them understand that they can't live without you or that ••AT LEAST* that you're doing your part.
Like, is reddit scared of me deleting my account? I think it doesn't give a damn. Is reddit gonna give a damn if another 100k accounts start getting deleted along with mine? At least they're gonna start noticing. And at least I can say that I've done my part.
Ive deleted my reddit account and I'm done with Reddit. Until they fix themselves and realize that acting that greedy and immaturely with lies about conversations that never happened between the Apollo programmer and /u/spez are not gonna pass. At least not from me, i'm fairly disgusted by the Reddit leadership.
by dom96 on 6/11/23, 9:19 PM
I built a free API emulating the Reddit API[1]. It was returning the same data as the existing publicly accessible .json endpoints on reddit.com (for example https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps.json). They not only blocked my requests, but also banned the subreddit I created and my 13 years old personal Reddit account (permanently!).
by bstar77 on 6/11/23, 5:30 PM
by john-radio on 6/11/23, 5:43 PM
by jimmytucson on 6/11/23, 6:04 PM
For comparison, Reddit Premium is $5.99/month[2].
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13wsiks/comment/...
by moomoo11 on 6/11/23, 8:56 PM
Why not..
1. User installs 3rd party app
2. You accept reddit TOS, an API key is attached to your account. It could even be integrated into apple/android keys or user subscription models. You pay either directly to reddit or via your payments to the 3rd party app service fees
This could work for so many use cases. Why should developers need to do think about all this nonsense like key rotation, constantly changing pricing models, using round robin API key rotation because you're hitting limits with one key, etc. Devs should just set up the experience so users can bring their own battery and plug in to start playing.
Just provide the backend. Let devs build cool 3rd party apps around it. Each user can just get their own API key that's tied to them, either simple case like the reddit account, or its part of the apple id subscriptions + keychain.
Everyone makes money. Everyone gets to learn programming or whatever the fuck makes them make 3rd party experiences. Everyone can just be happy.
by acyou on 6/12/23, 3:42 AM
The Reddit protest does not stand alone and is not caused by u/spez or Reddit management or whatever. There is a vastly broader context here. What will be the lasting effects of a migration away from Reddit, or of a management change, or of a structural change in how this and other websites are administered?
I couldn't care less about Reddit because I don't use it and don't like the posts and discussion on there. At the same time, I do care, because I know many of the Reddit users and moderators are also probably going to end up here, and for the above reasons.
by EscapeFromNY on 6/11/23, 5:34 PM
by _b on 6/11/23, 6:01 PM
by pkju62dqmx on 6/12/23, 3:36 AM
by atleastoptimal on 6/11/23, 5:26 PM
by khalladay on 6/11/23, 5:37 PM
by cm2012 on 6/11/23, 5:43 PM
That said, Reddit should have built better mod tools before making their api change.
I think people complaining about not having 3rd party apps to browse reddit is "meh". But moderators need to be able to do their jobs.
by SCUSKU on 6/11/23, 5:45 PM
Click uBlock Origin extension -> click gears -> click "My Filters" tab -> paste this line
||reddit.com^$all
by predictabl3 on 6/12/23, 12:15 AM
Reddark, the Twitch stream, the Discord, the Lemmings instances popping up, the way people are talking about this situation. I'm so sad, and so FREAKING PROUD.
by dehrmann on 6/11/23, 8:34 PM
by drumhead on 6/11/23, 5:53 PM
by LanceH on 6/11/23, 6:01 PM
I'm scratching my head that the general attitude seems to be that Reddit just shouldn't get paid.
by acyou on 6/12/23, 4:11 AM
That will probably have a knock-on effect across the entire Internet. If users start to accept, for instance, account creation as the cost for entry for consuming content, the Internet will become a very different place. Reddit is one of the only big sites where you don't need an account to consume content, and there are tons of links in and out of the website. Is that about to change?
by TheCaptain4815 on 6/11/23, 8:00 PM
Reddit went from pretty much complete free speech to one of the most censored websites in existence.
Huge portions of America now prefer censorship so Reddit has in essence created a moat for themselves.
If Americans were more accepting of all speech like before, Reddit clones would be easy to switch to. Now, you’re not only battling new censorship standards, but good luck getting on the IOS and Android store as a free speech forum.
On top of that, there are political benefits to this censorship. So that adds even more defense to the moat.
by low_tech_punk on 6/11/23, 6:25 PM
Is the missing ADs revenue the crux of the problem?
Instead of raising API price, what if Reddit injects ADs as real content for non premium API calls, so those API free riders/crawlers would get ADs indistinguishable from content. Well intended apps like Apollo could allow users to provide their premium identity and get AD free content. If this works, Reddit could even lower the price of premium account thanks to increase in AD revenue.
Also, I believe Reddit should share ADs revenue with subreddits moderators. This would truly align the incentive of all parties.
by quenix on 6/11/23, 5:24 PM
"Watch the Reddit strike unfold live"?
by alsargent on 6/20/23, 6:25 PM
Plenty of other companies have figured out how to price APIs in a way that works for developers: AWS, Twilio, Stripe, Okta, MongoDB, and Plaid, to name a few.
It's not like these companies aren't making money with their API pricing; they've all generated enough in revenues and profits to drive their valuations into multiple billions of dollars.
It's as if Reddit didn't do the basic work of rolling out API pricing: talk to customers, find price points they can live with, offer prioritized customer support in exchange for API charges, etc. Literally hundreds of software companies have followed this playbook, and have rolled out API prices without drama.
Am I missing something here?
by justinhj on 6/11/23, 6:14 PM
by candiddevmike on 6/11/23, 5:36 PM
by neilv on 6/11/23, 5:56 PM
Given lots of revolutionary-lite public sentiment in recent years... when some other platforms are in the news for abusing and neglecting users, and the users being impotent property... Reddit ownership could renew its aura of empowered community of people with agency.
While Reddit still owns it, yet looks like corporate is aligned with "the people", and not a doormat for backing down.
I don't know the exact messaging to nail this optimally, nor how to reconcile that with revenue and investor optics goals (but a bunch of mainstream news newly muttering about supplanting Twitter, and a burst of adoption, can't hurt).
My gut feel is that it could work, and I'm guessing that Reddit, of all companies, probably still has the institutional DNA to swing it better than most.
(Disclaimer: Am computers expert, not people expert.)
by constantly on 6/11/23, 8:19 PM
by sva_ on 6/11/23, 7:32 PM
> Can I watch the website myself!
> Afraid not, our site recently broke down due to the amount of requests, and for the time being we've resorted to livestreaming it. When traffic dies down we'll put it back up.
by jrochkind1 on 6/13/23, 12:16 PM
Without a very clear statement of demands -- what it would take to end the action -- that everyone (or at least majority) of those participating understand and agree too -- it makes this even less effective as a form of pressure.
Those planning on going away "unless the issue is adequately addressed", what does that mean? Completely ending and reverting all plans to charge for API? That's not what they say, they say "adequately addressed", so that probably isnt' consensus (and probably isn't winnable? Or reasonable?). Making the charges some kind of reasonable... so every mod just decides on their own if any change announced is "adequate" or not?
What makes a boycott most likely to be effective as a pressure tactic is if the target knows exactly what they have to do to end the boycott, and has some confidence that if they do it the boycott will indeed end.
Now, whether this is actually winnable here (and via this tactic) is another question, but you might as well do your best if you're trying it.
I feel like at least some of the people participating in this boycott are just sick of reddit (and the internet, and society) and would be just as happy to see it burn though.
There's very little discussion of strategy and tactics in this thread -- how we can actually win, when organizing collectively for collective demands. If we want to be able to win, it's a good thing to think and talk about, not just react instinctively.
by seydor on 6/11/23, 8:20 PM
Could it be that reddit actually wants the 'strike' to shake up the stagnant subreddit/moderation situation which hasnt changed for so long? If any of you is starting new subs, please post them here. It's more likely they will be better than the tired old ones
This is one of the dumbest reddit protests and that s a high bar to cross
by Andrew_nenakhov on 6/11/23, 6:21 PM
by inamberclad on 6/12/23, 4:28 AM
by balozi on 6/11/23, 5:56 PM
by king_magic on 6/11/23, 5:45 PM
Cynical take? Certainly. I think this was always doomed to failure through eventual apathy.
Do I want it to fail? Of course not, but it feels as poorly thought out as Occupy Wall Street did.
by pwpw on 6/12/23, 5:37 AM
by ayakang31415 on 6/11/23, 8:59 PM
by rTX5CMRXIfFG on 6/12/23, 7:21 AM
by MrPatan on 6/11/23, 9:21 PM
It works great!
by jimbob45 on 6/12/23, 6:13 AM
Frustrating the people you want to support you rarely works.
by nabakin on 6/11/23, 6:24 PM
by davemp on 6/11/23, 8:29 PM
I’m actually somewhat excited because the quality of most subreddits has tanked over time.
by Nerd_hooligan on 6/11/23, 5:14 PM
by natebc on 6/11/23, 10:37 PM
I'll really miss a couple of the good communities I've found there if this adventure ends up being fatal.
by saos on 6/11/23, 8:45 PM
by DowsingSpoon on 6/11/23, 8:19 PM
by 2devnull on 6/12/23, 2:17 AM
by aendruk on 6/11/23, 6:15 PM
The live site has been difficult to reach. (https://github.com/Tanza3D/reddark/issues/49)
by causality0 on 6/11/23, 6:07 PM
by GaggiX on 6/11/23, 6:22 PM
It must be a pretty stressful coding session now.
by sacnoradhq on 6/12/23, 2:54 AM
If you want change, vote with your eyes and go elsewhere out of reach of absurdity.
by CostcoFanboy on 6/11/23, 5:57 PM
by hker999 on 6/11/23, 6:38 PM
by AlbertCory on 6/11/23, 9:08 PM
by phoe-krk on 6/11/23, 10:25 PM
by andruby on 6/11/23, 8:26 PM
Technically that’s not too hard. Moreover, these clients have a large user base. Some even have revenue. I guess the most tricky part is content moderation.
Has this been discussed or proposed anywhere?
by revskill on 6/11/23, 5:29 PM
by JaceLightning on 6/12/23, 1:50 PM
by DantesKite on 6/11/23, 7:10 PM
As it stands, there doesn't seem to be anywhere for these people to go, so they'll likely come back after a few days. Habits are hard to break.
Habits are a moat too.
by baby on 6/11/23, 5:49 PM
by mikerg87 on 6/11/23, 6:15 PM
by motoxpro on 6/12/23, 6:10 AM
by DarkmSparks on 6/11/23, 6:10 PM
All I can say is this mess is not the exciting show it seems to be.
Quite frankly I'm most surprised reddit made it this far.
by gareve on 6/12/23, 10:21 AM
by cactusplant7374 on 6/11/23, 11:15 PM
Is reddit even safe for younger folks or folks at the office?
by honksillet on 6/11/23, 5:38 PM
by temporallobe on 6/11/23, 9:19 PM
by dubeye on 6/11/23, 6:44 PM
by fho on 6/11/23, 6:46 PM
by ZachSaucier on 6/11/23, 10:44 PM
by barelysapient on 6/11/23, 11:47 PM
by paulpauper on 6/11/23, 5:57 PM
by liberty-DNBWM on 6/12/23, 2:15 AM
by gamesbrainiac on 6/12/23, 12:36 AM
by jshen on 6/12/23, 2:19 AM
by CodeWriter23 on 6/11/23, 10:41 PM
by graiz on 6/11/23, 6:14 PM
by internetguy on 6/12/23, 1:06 AM
by endisneigh on 6/11/23, 6:13 PM
I’ll see them on the new site
by rany_ on 6/11/23, 5:44 PM
It should be permanent if these boycotters want an effective outcome, but a 48-hours boycott sends the wrong message and just communicates that it is OK to do these sorts of shenanigans and all they will get a slap on the wrist.
by xwdv on 6/11/23, 6:18 PM
If approved members of a subreddit can still read and post, why not just leave the subreddits private indefinitely? Is public access really that important for some reason? This feels toothless.
It feels like making your Instagram profile private as a form of protest.
by fritobugger on 6/12/23, 3:44 AM
by fayazara on 6/12/23, 4:30 AM
by golemotron on 6/11/23, 7:06 PM
by ForOldHack on 6/12/23, 2:30 AM
by cprecioso on 6/11/23, 8:49 PM
by ryukoposting on 6/12/23, 12:37 AM
by sourcecodeplz on 6/11/23, 7:51 PM
by seydor on 6/11/23, 8:18 PM
by nunez on 6/11/23, 7:22 PM
by paulddraper on 6/11/23, 6:54 PM
by bardfinn on 6/11/23, 5:24 PM
I think about the Tower of Flints.
by dahwolf on 6/11/23, 7:38 PM
Ban these conspiring power mods and take over their subreddits with willing volunteers. Let the free-loading Apollo app expire and persist with the new API pricing.
I bet this seemingly cruel series of actions would actually improve Reddit. Reddit has a whiny upper class of power mods that take a little too much joy in watching something burn.
Show them who's boss. Call the bluff.
by cute_boi on 6/11/23, 5:26 PM
looks too tiny tbh.
by ChocMontePy on 6/11/23, 6:36 PM
They didn't produce any good evidence that the new API price is excessive (some cherry-picking here, a deceptive comparison there) but they still managed to convince 99% of Reddit that it was true anyway.
Bravo! It was a beautiful exercise in propaganda and the delusion of crowds.
by jcpsimmons on 6/11/23, 7:43 PM