by abhas9 on 5/31/23, 11:55 AM with 263 comments
by screye on 5/31/23, 5:01 PM
This is more likely for the reasons to be innocuous.
> In explaining its changes, NCERT states on its website that it considered whether content overlapped with similar content covered elsewhere, the difficulty of the content, and whether the content was irrelevant. It also aims to provide opportunities for experiential learning and creativity.
> NCERT announced the cuts last year, saying that they would ease pressures on students studying online during the COVID-19 pandemic. Amitabh Joshi, an evolutionary biologist at Jawaharlal Nehru Centre for Advanced Scientific Research in Bengaluru, India, says that science teachers and researchers expected that the content would be reinstated once students returned to classrooms. Instead, the NCERT shocked everyone by printing textbooks for the new academic year with a statement that the changes will remain for the next two academic years, in line with India’s revised education policy approved by government in July 2020.
Sounds more like students have continued lagging behind after coming back from Covid, than anything malicious. I have literally never heard of national politicians in India being anti-science.
I might be wrong, but I would genuinely like to see 1st source statements from the board indicating that these changes are religiously motivated.
by spaceman_2020 on 5/31/23, 5:52 PM
Cultures that keep looking at imagined past glories, imo, are destined to become static and falter.
by james-redwood on 5/31/23, 4:51 PM
The headline also seems awfully clickbaity. What the policy seems to have done is shifted basic evolution down to younger grades and moved the more advanced concepts to more senior grades. However, this shifts more advanced concepts up to grades in which science as a subject is not compulsory. Regressive as this is, this isn’t what the headline suggests.
by alephnerd on 5/31/23, 4:44 PM
It's still being taught in the NCERT books as well, but now in 12th grade instead of 10th grade.
The scarier thing should be the rewriting of the history section of CBSE.
* board is Indian English for curriculum
Also, on the hierarchy of Indian board exams:
Top - ICSE
Medium - some State Boards
Low - CBSE, some state boards
Board exams are orthogonal to college entrance exams in India.
For example, IIT and Engineering admissions are gated by the JEE, so students oftentimes bunk 10th-12th grade to study the JEE and try to get a D average in the Board exam (because there's only so much you can study).
Board exams do have value though for most average colleges though and some top tier non-Eng ones (eg. If I wanted to study Law at St Stephen's College, University of Delhi or Business at Shri Ram College of Commerce, University of Delhi - both programs that feed into the political and business elite of India).
The Indian system is confusing and weird and there is some reform within it to become much more similar to the American system, but that's a work in progress.
by SpaceManNabs on 5/31/23, 5:54 PM
"We/Indians don't politicize science"
"There are many education authorities"
I think this is only affecting a particular grade, but we already have seen the slow rollout of other efforts.
You can't normalize politicians saying stuff like "our ancient civilization had nuclear energy".
edit: surprised that I wasn't immediately downvoted. A year ago, talking about this was instant downvotes, on any platform. I guess enough people have noticed this behavior.
by vivegi on 6/1/23, 2:48 AM
Here are the links to the class XI textbook for Chemistry (the so called rationalized text books for 2023-24).
Chemistry Part I, Unit 3, Classification of Elements and Periodicity in Properties. (Link to PDF) https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php?kech1=3-6
in pg 77, Mendeleev's original periodic table
in pg 79, Long form of the periodic table (modern periodic table)
Biology, Chapter 6, Evolution. (link to PDF) https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php?lebo1=6-13
6.1 Origin of Life
6.2 Evolution of Life Forms - A Theory
6.3 What are the Evidences for Evolution?
6.4 What is Adaptive Radiation?
6.5 Biological Evolution
6.6 Mechanism of Evolution
6.7 Hardy - Weinberg Principle
6.8 A Brief Account of Evolution
6.9 Origin and Evolution of Man
> Nature has learnt that the periodic table, as well as evolution, won’t be taught to under-16s as they start the new school year.
Yeah, duh! It is taught in Class XI and XII in Chemistry and Biology, just not in Class IX or X as it used to be done previously. Weaving this as some major conspiracy is dishonest and ridiculous.
For the benefit of US readers: Class IX is freshman high school year, Class X is sophomore year, Class XI is junior year, Class XII is senior year.
by standardUser on 5/31/23, 6:23 PM
I know little-to-nothing about elementary education in India, but I always appreciated the broad-based approach to education I experienced in the US, with various concept introduced very early, and then re-introduced periodically over the years. If anything, I would support throwing more knowledge at young students, knowing that they'll only absorb a fraction of it. Though I suppose that approach is anathema to standardized testing.
by vinay_ys on 5/31/23, 6:24 PM
Anyway, it really doesn't matter if some of these topics are removed from these specific textbooks because most science students who are aspiring to go for engineering or medical undergrad college will study those topics as part of preparations for college entrance exams. Stuff like evolution, environmental pollution and periodic tables will be studied by even those who are applying for Indian civil service exams.
Also, there is no danger of creationism taking hold in India just because evolution is not taught in high school. Also, religious beliefs in India are very diverse and rich and highly complicated that nobody who is inclined to learn sciences will confuse religious beliefs and mythological stories with practical sciences.
Edit: btw, all textbooks are available for free download here: https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php You can evaluate for yourself and make your own mind. I for one envy students of today with all the rich multimedia material at their fingertips especially to learn formal and natural sciences.
by schoubey on 5/31/23, 4:44 PM
by WhatsName on 5/31/23, 4:42 PM
At least here it seems to happen with the clear political agenda. Who needs evolution and democracy anyways other than those inconvenient to the indian government.
by debacle on 5/31/23, 8:34 PM
by vondur on 5/31/23, 5:50 PM
by fractalb on 5/31/23, 5:12 PM
by Bekknqv on 5/31/23, 7:00 PM
My sibling was in grade 10 when COVID hit, some topics that had been removed from the final exam were still taught (although in a somewhat brief manner, considering this was online schooling).
Indian politicians say a lot of dumb and pseudo-scientific garbage, but a few subpar comments here are wildly quoting those to act as if they're rewriting all of science in India. They've purely made omissions, no additions/revisions.
And evolution is still a chapter in grade 12 biology books- https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php?lebo1=6-13
You can also find the periodic table in grade 9 science textbooks (page 6)- https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php?kech1=3-6
by funnybusiness2 on 6/9/23, 11:00 AM
Do these changes de-emphasize science education or merely reorganize it? Also debatable.
Are these debates fairly represented by this nature.com article in a balanced way? NOT AT ALL.
The bigger story here is the decline in credibility suffered by nature.com due to its publication of such an unbalanced article.
nature.com used to be one of the gold standard for scientific publications. When they publish garbage like this, more people start to lean "anti-science".
by givemeethekeys on 5/31/23, 5:12 PM
There are many education systems in India. There's a central one, but each state has its own.
Indians at every economic level (except maybe the very top) value STEM education above everything else.
I wish we'd learn to dial back the hysteria. I wish people weren't so damn trigger happy.
by jmclnx on 5/31/23, 4:35 PM
With that said, seems India is mirroring the US in making sure only the wealthy will get a good education (private schools).
It is a dangerous game doing that, eventually the mass will rise up once they realize their children have no hope in succeeding.
by mensetmanusman on 5/31/23, 8:26 PM
by kepler1 on 5/31/23, 9:45 PM
by bluepod4 on 5/31/23, 7:31 PM
Also, maybe I missed it, but what’s the point of _removing_ the chapters instead of just not _teaching_ them?
by kazinator on 6/1/23, 1:15 AM
It's like some secret plot perpetrated by an external enemy who aims to eradicate the nation.
by baerrie on 6/1/23, 4:18 PM
by shreyshnaccount on 6/1/23, 6:51 AM
Id encourage non-Indians to read up about India to have the cultural context we grow up in
by dexzod on 5/31/23, 7:12 PM
by amriksohata on 5/31/23, 10:17 PM
by wly_cdgr on 5/31/23, 9:44 PM
by mdev on 5/31/23, 5:11 PM
by msravi on 6/1/23, 5:10 AM
by rideofvalkyrie on 6/7/23, 10:03 PM
Periodic table: https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php?kech1=3-6
Evolution: https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php?lebo1=6-13
http://www.indiatodayne.in/national/story/ncert-syllabus-row...
TLDR: Nature and most other western publications failed to do basic fact check, neither periodic table or evolution are 'cut' from textbooks. They're just moved to a different grade.
by killjoywashere on 5/31/23, 9:45 PM
But I seriously doubt that's the case and the mechanism of action seems weak.
by ilrwbwrkhv on 5/31/23, 7:44 PM
by p0w3n3d on 5/31/23, 7:07 PM
by intel_brain on 6/1/23, 11:20 AM
by toddm on 5/31/23, 6:16 PM
by 31337Logic on 5/31/23, 12:51 PM
by keithxm23 on 5/31/23, 5:50 PM
by donatj on 5/31/23, 5:24 PM
by waterheater on 5/31/23, 8:35 PM
Consider the concepts of atman (essentially, meaning Self) and avatars (essentially, deities coming down to earth to take on human form). Darwinian evolution acts as a simplified, analogous representation of the grander evolution of Self as told in Hindu mythology. According to Hinduism, atman evolves by inhabiting more complete forms of physical vessel, passing from fish to amphibian to cow to human to Buddha.
Additionally, Hindu belief systems admit the existence of reincarnative process, which Western belief systems, including our most fundamental prevailing scientific axiom, do not. Darwinian evolution and an overarching reincarnative process cannot coexist because the former requires that the physical world is the totality of reality while the latter requires that the physical world is a small but important portion of reality. Humans are either the descendants of monkeys via a completely-observable evolutionary process, or forces beyond those which are Seen shape our development.
Western arrogance dismisses these ideas as invalid at face value. A Westerner should honestly seek to understand the Hindu belief system and suss out where it is accurate and inaccurate without resorting to pathos argumentation.