by adversaryIdiot on 3/9/23, 5:41 PM with 52 comments
There are some books I've read where it feels like every page is a gold mine of information. Is this whole fluff-to-information predicament a common thing in reading? What tools/metrics are there to help find meaningful books? For example, is it viable to only read books greater than 4.5 stars on Goodreads? Or is meticulously researching for good books just a matter of life in the book-reading hobby?
Maybe every book is valuable, and it's just a skill to read, to extract the meaningful information effectively. But honestly, as with everything in life, it's probably a mix of everything. Researching and reading skills will probably make the hobby more enjoyable. But I mean, since it's a hobby, I have the right to try to avoid books I would consider 'useless'.
by dcchambers on 3/9/23, 8:44 PM
Most books are terrible, and even most "good" books have large swaths of filler content. Very few books are packed with useful content from front to back cover.
I think this is largely due to pressures from publishers and the way books are traditionally published and sold.
A 50 page book that is jam-packed with goodies and has no filler won't sell nearly as well as a 300 page book that seems to be full of stuff from an expert in the field. A 300 page book looks a lot better on a shelf than a 50 page pamphlet. Most of us know in our brains that quality > quantity, but our hearts often tell us the opposite.
Some fixes already exist: Online content, blogs, developer docs, and self-published books.
Practically, I would say don't worry about skimming books or parts of books if they seem like they are mostly fluff or overly repetitive. Because they probably are.
by porcoda on 3/9/23, 9:49 PM
This isn't just a problem with non-fiction books. I find more often than not in long form journalism lately the writers seem to not be able to resist becoming characters in their own writing. I could have sworn at one point it was considered bad journalistic form to become part of the story versus reporting it. Apparently those days are gone.
by docandrew on 3/9/23, 8:00 PM
There’s nothing wrong with not being into the same books everyone else pretended to read. A good book should feel like entertainment or an interesting diversion, not a chore to slog through. There are some classics (like Dickens) that I just can’t get into, and I’m OK with that.
Stephen King describes his books as the literary equivalent of a “Big Mac and Fries” and you know what? Sometimes a Big Mac is what sounds good for lunch.
One genre I particularly like is non-fiction about interesting events, like “Endurance” about Shackleton’s failed voyage to the South Pole. It’s a great book and I learned more about leadership from it than all the other self-help books combined.
by HeyLaughingBoy on 3/9/23, 8:09 PM
It took me years to get past the first 100 pages of both Dune and Stars in my Pocket like Grains of Sand but once I did, both turned out to be excellent. The only reason I kept trying is that I'd heard they were both good and I couldn't figure out what I was missing until I found it.
IME, the only way to know if you're likely to enjoy a book is if it's recommended by someone who knows your taste very well. Or if you have a favorite author. Other than that, it's a crapshoot. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you waste a few hours.
One of the nice things about brick & mortar bookstores and libraries is being able to browse around until you find something good.
by noud on 3/9/23, 7:23 PM
> What tools/metrics are there to help find meaningful books?
Okay, first I never read a book that is less than 10 years old. Why? Because 10 years is roughly the time needed for a book to withstand the wheel of time. 100 years, as noted in other comments as well, is even better. If old books are still read, they are probably good books. But I cannot tell you the best books of last year. The only thing I can do, is tell you what the most popular books of last year were. But popular books are not the same as best books.
Secondly, I only read books I'm willing to read multiple times. Reading a book more than once is a great experience. Usually, I get more out of the second or third read than from the first read. If, after reading a couple of pages of a book, I realize I will not want to re-read the book, I quit reading it.
by rozenmd on 3/9/23, 7:44 PM
by westcort on 3/9/23, 8:59 PM
Random exposure to books might help you find something that is of greater interest to you that you would read otherwise. I found, for example, this book, which I found interesting by this method: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis_of_Prime_I...
by tomxor on 3/9/23, 9:17 PM
Which is why you should not feel bad about abandoning a bad book, life is short, not everything is worth reading (or not everything is going to be interesting to you), so spend more time on the good ones, or on the ones you enjoy.
I'm not a huge reader so I finish few, but occasionally I come across a gem and relish it, re-reading whole chapters, trying to absorb as much as possible. As others have pointed out, even the good ones contain less interesting sections, but sometimes this is more intrinsic to the subject, sort of like the vegetables that might not be as palatable but you should eat in order to maximise your absorption of the nutrients... Distinguishing this from books of generally low value low quality is not always quick, but you gain an instinct and will know when to ditch it.
My hunt for books is completely random and infrequent, and I think I could personally do a lot better here, by going after the classics, books that stood the test of time..
by Silverback_VII on 3/9/23, 7:12 PM
You will also notice that the books you read become increasingly more arcane to the point where you question your own sanity. It's almost like porn, the more you watch, the more extreme the content gets. I think this is one of the main reasons for the prevalence of occult stuff over the ages.
by zemvpferreira on 3/9/23, 7:23 PM
What are you trying to read and why? From your description it sounds like you're reading to learn, which is fine but likely sub-optimal. Or are you reading to learn how to read?
by nkjnlknlk on 3/9/23, 7:34 PM
by anonyfox on 3/9/23, 7:36 PM
- padded blogposts/tweets to appear thicker/more valuable - rampantly wrong pseudoscience and opinion pieces that trigger emotions instead of brains - once useful advice that is now horribly outdated - if accurate, then too dry to become actually popular
and then there is fiction, which is at least honest about being fiction, but constrained by the authors imagination as well as the target reading groups average expectations. Thats why most SciFi stuff is some kind of stupid dystopia to provoke fears about the future instead of guidance towards a good path like solarpunk.
by rchaud on 3/9/23, 7:17 PM
I know from experience never to pick up a Cal Newport book again. 50 pages of well-written, cogent prose surrounded by 300 pages of repetition.
Same with James Clear's Atomic Habits. I was on his newsletter list for about a year prior to the book, and I can tell you there is almost nothing new in there. But that's really a testament to the quality of the newsletter. Once the book came out however, every email after that was an ad for the book. Unsubbed!
by bmitc on 3/9/23, 9:31 PM
I enjoy finding special nonfiction books that present the essence of a subject in an expedient way, but these are hard to find and they require a great focus from the author to stick to a specific topic or subtopic of huge fields.
Novels are different.
by djkivi on 3/9/23, 11:15 PM
“Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.”
https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/albert-einsteins-thoughts-on...
by RAdrien on 3/9/23, 9:36 PM
by JoshCole on 3/9/23, 10:19 PM
by vmoore on 3/9/23, 7:26 PM
by idopmstuff on 3/9/23, 8:43 PM
I just finished a book called Arbitrary Lines, about land zoning in the US. I was looking for a really deep dive into the history of zoning and how it ended up in its current state, or perhaps comparative analysis of different zoning policies. In reality, the book was maybe 25% technical/historical information about zoning and 75% the author going off about how zoning is unfair and leads to inequality. That's all fine, but I was picking up the book because I already have a clear understanding that zoning is the source of problems and wanted to understand how we got to where we are (and maybe learn about what the expected benefits of the existing zoning rules are that got them implemented, which the author didn't even pretend to be interested in because he's totally anti-zoning).
In any case, this is all to say that I strong recommend two things. First, skim! You don't actually have to read the whole book. I'm currently reading a book called Limitless, which is about the Fed's actions during the early days of the pandemic. It started with some history of the Fed, which makes sense in context, but I've already read about the history of the Fed, so I just read initial paragraphs of chapters and initial sentences of paragraphs to make sure I wasn't missing anything important by skipping it. Second, be willing to put down books. It took me a while to be okay with this, but at the end of the day you only have so much reading time in your life, and there's no shame in setting down a book that's disappointing and moving on to something else.
In terms of finding books, if you're looking for this kind of nonfiction, I like recommendations from experts. I really like Bill Gates' reading list. NPR Best Books (https://apps.npr.org/best-books) as well.
by tjr on 3/9/23, 5:55 PM
Likewise, lots of articles (both printed and online) are three paragraphs of real content forced into a four-page package.
And plenty of blog posts are one-sentence ideas spread out amongst five paragraphs.
As for finding good books, for me, one helpful clue is the author. If I like one book from an author, I very likely (though not certainly) will like another. Of course, sticking with one particular author can be very limiting. Another clue is the publisher; having found some books that I like all from one publisher, then that is encouraging to peruse more books from the same publisher.
And likewise, finding books that are poorly written and low on content from a publisher seems like a good warning to avoid getting more of their books.
by justsomehnguy on 3/9/23, 8:54 PM
Yes! Of course you have the right to choose what you are reading. Don't forget about it.
> What tools/metrics are there to help find meaningful books?
Do you really want a metric on a highly subjective matter? Does a bad rating on Goodreads means what the book is bad? Does that that mean what you wouldn't enjoy it if it relevant for your interests?
> it's probably a mix of everything.
Of course.
Try this[0] (or find a text copy, it's available on archive.org too), it's short and...
by falconinthesun on 3/9/23, 8:25 PM
by is_true on 3/9/23, 7:42 PM
by JohnFen on 3/9/23, 9:16 PM
One person's indispensable book can be, and often is, another person's complete waste of time. It depends as much on the reader as on the book.
by jacobmartin on 3/9/23, 7:49 PM
by greenie_beans on 3/9/23, 9:36 PM
for the rest of the books, my life hack is to watch/listen to summaries about books, or find videos or interviews where the writer talks about the book. so many non-fiction books should be a blog post. don't be afraid to skim.
by abc_lisper on 3/9/23, 8:55 PM
Having said that, books with rating > 4.7 (of 5) on amazon are generally v.good.
by throwawaysalome on 3/9/23, 7:22 PM
I read a ton only because today's movies and tv are so bad, and because I can go as fast as I want. I skim because I'm only gonna remember 10%.
by pfoof on 3/10/23, 7:26 PM
Also, YMMV, but for me, repetition in books causes to remember much more, shape and use the knowledge. Unlike a random blog post from HN ;)
by timonoko on 3/10/23, 5:19 AM
It has happened that I have paid for the stolen book and bought more books from the author because of free sample at Pirate Bay.
by gumby on 3/9/23, 8:47 PM
As far as fiction goes the same is true but there's one weird trick I use: by and large I only read books by dead authors. The volume of the world's books is enormous, and again, most is crap. But if someone has died (no more book publicity tours!) and their book is still in print or readily available, there's a better chance that it's worth reading.
There's more to it than that of course; naïvely following this rule would suggest reading (ugh) Ayn Rand. But there's a big variety of good stuff still in print or easily findable at a used book store.
by rogerclark on 3/9/23, 8:47 PM
by egypturnash on 3/9/23, 10:03 PM
Is every podcast full of value, with no fluff? Is every music album? Is every video? No. Why should books be any different?
There are book that are astounding things packed full of revelations. There are books that are the equivalent of a YouTube video that pads a 3s answer to the question posed by its title out to 10min because that's where you start getting better monetization.
There are also books that mostly exist to entertain you with a story. Some of these are great, full of compelling characters and cool ideas. Some of them are not. Some of them have high ambitions of saying something deep about life via a parable. Some of them just want to give you a fun time. Some succeed at whichever of those aims they have. Some don't.
There are books that are introductions to their field. There are books that are aimed exclusively at experts in them. This includes works of fiction - it's a fabulous experience to read a story you're well-versed in, by an author who expects that none of the basic concepts have to be explained to you, and just goes full speed ahead into their crazy takes on them.
Some subjects are honestly not that deep and everything that needs to be said about them can be done in a few chapters. And yet people keep on writing books about the same thing, saying the same ideas in slightly different ways, with a handful of anecdotes showing the ideas in action and other ways to pad it out into something worth paying the basic cost for putting the text through whatever physical or electronic supply chain ends with it in your hands, with a profit for everyone in that supply chain. Sometimes one of these books actually has a new take on the subject. Usually it doesn't.
Find reviewers you trust. If a friend recommends something, check it out; if you think it's garbage after reading it then now you have something to talk about your friend with. Be polite in your takedown of it unless you have shared books with this friend and argued about them a lot in the past. If an author you like recommends something, check it out. Bookstores can provide a curated experience of physical books that you can write snarky comments in the margins of; some bookstores specialize in certain topics, some don't; many will have cards here and there on the shelves with recommendations from the staff. And take chances. If you see a book recommended several times in different context, check it out. If you stumble upon something in the store that looks exciting, grab it. Especially if it's used and cheap. If you find a burning need for that expensive small-press scholarly work on the various jackal divinities of ancient Egypt[1] arises in you the moment you learn of its existence then get it. Especially if most of its absurd price appears in your life while you're still dithering about it. Find communities where people ask for pirated copies of obscure books - sometimes one sounds cool enough to buy for yourself.
Usually a good rule of thumb for fiction is to give it to about page 100. You can quit earlier if you really hate it, life's too short to read bad books, but if a story hasn't grabbed you by that point it never will. Especially beware of any multi-book series where its fans tell you it gets good around book 3-5.
Avoid bestsellers. Except when you don't.
You can always put a book down. Maybe you'll come back to it. Maybe you never will. Maybe you'll put it down so hard that it bounces off the wall and into the trash can. Books are not sacred, books are not all amazing.
1: https://www.darengo.co.uk/product/jackal-divinities-1/ - it's OOP now and I'm definitely glad to have this artifact on my shelves
by cvjcvjcvj on 3/9/23, 9:31 PM
by groffee on 3/9/23, 6:04 PM
Start with the 90 day Harvard classics https://www.myharvardclassics.com/categories/20120622
And also check out Penguins Great Idea series https://www.penguin.co.uk/series/PEN02/penguin-great-ideas
If a book was read 100 years ago and is still being read today then it's worth a read. Most books written a few hundred years ago are just as relevant (if not more so) today.