from Hacker News

Cucumber maintainer has been laid off

by joergrech on 3/3/23, 9:43 AM with 73 comments

by UweSchmidt on 3/3/23, 11:14 AM
I have used Cucumber in various projects, but haven't yet had the pleasure of seeing it all work out.
- No one wanted to "collaborate", or check a "documentation" based on the Cucumber code. Yes, it's code, it lives in an IDE, in git, and non-technical folks just generally don't deal with that world. No one in my projects ever even brought such an idea up. Non-technical folks looked at our Cucumber code as in "what tests do we have?" or "how do you guys work". Nothing in their domain.
- Why do we have programming languages and don't programm computers using natural language? You'll find out when you try BDD! You end up coding the complexities that natural language glosses over, you'll fight similar Cucumber statements trying to get some reusability and so on. In the end you wonder why you bother with the 1-2 extra layers of Cucumber anyway.
- At the same time, good test code is easily readable for semi-technical people. In testing it ends up with a lot of clicking and entering values in text fields in an application the business analyst will be familiar with. Whenever they are willing, they'll figure out Selenium code.
- Have you ever wished that you have some
```
  Scenario: Sunday isn't Friday
    Given today is Sunday
    When I ask whether it's Friday yet
    Then I should be told "Nope"
```
on top of, say, Boolean checkIfFriday() in your code? Truth is, a lot of testing code is click here, enter text there. Wrapped in the right function, organized in the right way (Page Object Model?) and it's all readable, maintainable and done in a reasonable time.
I would advise against BDD/Cucumber and to be convinced otherwise I'd have to see a well though-out and realistic working example.
by config_yml on 3/3/23, 10:32 AM
13 years ago when I started with Rails, we had a cucumber suite for one of the products we maintained. It was eventually abandoned, as developers didn't want to maintain it and the PM was not interesting in applying it either. I had never seen it on a project since, but still knew one or two people who were religious about it.
Fast forward to yesterday, we were formatting product specification using ChatGPT and I thought hmm, ChatGPT would be perfect to take something vaguely structured and return it as a Cucumber spec.
And here I am today, Cucumber pops up again in my HN feed. It feels like law of attraction, butn not quite :)
by Dayshine on 3/3/23, 12:08 PM
The American way of firing people with no notice and cutting off their logins instantly is so strange.
Is saving a tiny bit of money that much more important than a smooth handover? Or are employees just not willing to work their notice periods?
It sounds like in this case it's actively going to hurt the business.
by undecisive on 3/3/23, 12:07 PM
Like many others here, I haven't used Cucumber in a while, but back when I did, I went a couple to workshops that Matt ran, exploring BDD.
Certainly laying someone off when they are on holiday feels like a dick move, I guess that's corporates for you. I'd be interested in Aslak's viewpoint, as I'm guessing he's still there, and may well be the source of Matt's confidence that community assets will be handed over to the community.
But I'm glad Matt is reasonably happy. I'm absolutely certain his next venture will be successful, and that SmartBear lost a very valuable asset here.
by ibejoeb on 3/3/23, 2:49 PM
I'm not suggesting that it is, but this sounds much more like a firing than a layoff. Pretty shitty way to do a layoff. This is the way you remove a potential problem, i.e., play it cool until the doors are locked, then full lock-out. That's very different from "Hey man sorry, but it's layoff season, as you know, so we're gonna pay you out for the next 4 weeks and you can keep your coursera subscription."
by satisfice on 3/3/23, 2:25 PM
As a tester, I have felt from the first time I ever saw Cucumber that it is part of a conspiracy by coders to avoid productive testing by trying to transform testing into code— like that guy who wrote scripts to handle all communication with his girlfriend.
Given that Gherkin language is insultingly stilted and simplistic, when I see Cucumber, then I want to vomit.
by ChrisMarshallNY on 3/3/23, 12:44 PM
I really like this chap's attitude, and I sincerely wish him the very best.
by quickthrower2 on 3/3/23, 10:51 AM
I really liked using specflow (a cucumber equivalent) for dotnet years ago. It comes into its own when you want to quickly multiply up the cases or build out scenarios from smaller steps. Even if you are unit testing and not using BDD it is useful. But it is an investment, especially if you need to move exisiting tests to it. Being able to write code for a single step requires decent decoupling through the test and tested code.
by hsuduebc2 on 3/3/23, 11:39 AM
I must say. Man is pretty chill for someone being just cut off without a word.
by flerchin on 3/3/23, 2:20 PM
That's really disheartening. Without access to his email, can Matt still be the primary maintainer of Cucumber? He can of course fork it.
by pictur on 3/3/23, 5:35 PM
Cucumber is very useful in projects with similar components and flows. Developing certain command patterns and writing tests on these commands really improves and speeds up the processes.
by fgsantoyo on 3/3/23, 2:32 PM
Being off the grid for more than 2 days puts you at a disadvantage if you value your Job, let alone taking long esoteric vacations. there are people working non stop to take all you have. If you value anything enough, protect it at all cost.
by fgsantoyo on 3/3/23, 2:30 PM
Don't take more than two weeks at a time vacation let alone loose access to your email if you value your job. Ever. While we get there all esoteric on taking time off to rewind because we have added so much value already and the world is beautiful a worth exploring, there are many people working non stop to take what you have... bummer