from Hacker News

Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

by xook on 2/12/23, 1:33 AM with 128 comments

• by orange_joe on 2/12/23, 2:06 AM

  It's worth mentioning the backdrop of this is the current drive toward PSR (precision scheduled railroading), which has meant overworking train engineers with improved "efficiencies" through extremely long trains, and overworked employees. This has greatly increased the value of the train companies on the stock market, but at the expense of the workers (this came to a head a few months ago with pending labor strikes on the railroads). Insiders have warned about its potential risks, and I'm not an expert so I can't speak to overall accident trends, but the increased number of cars on a given engine greatly increases risk of derailment. This clearly seems like a major environmental disaster and will hopefully bring greater scrutiny toward how the rail companies operate.

• by mshake2 on 2/12/23, 2:01 AM

  >“Smoke and chemicals from the train, that’s the only thing that can cause it, because it doesn’t just happen out of nowhere,” Holzer says. “The chemicals that we’re being told are safe in the air, that’s definitely not safe for the animals … or people.”

  >“All the readings we’ve been recording in the community have been at normal concentrations, normal background, what you would find in almost any community operating outside,” said James Justice with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

  Somebody is lying.

• by jprd on 2/12/23, 1:52 AM

  It is _super_ weird how little attention this derailment seems to be attracting.

• by photochemsyn on 2/12/23, 2:36 AM

  Reports seem spotty but five tanker cars full of vinyl chloride, aka chloroethylene is no joke. That's a really nasty monomer (feedstock for making PVC pipe). Once polymerized it's a pretty harmless by all accounts, but the monomer is highly unpleasant (MSDS):

  Inhalation: Several minutes of exposure to high, but attainable concentrations (over 1000 ppm) may cause difficulty breathing, central nervous system depression and symptoms such as: ataxia or dizziness, drowsiness or fatigue, loss of consciousness, headache, euphoria and irritability, visual and or hearing disturbances, nausea, memory loss. Prolonged, high concentration exposures may cause unconsciousness or death. Cardiac: Acute intoxication may cause irregular heartbeats.

  Chronic Effects: Chronic exposure to vinyl chloride monomer (VCM) may cause damage to the nervous system, respiratory system, musculoskeletal system, and lymphatic system. Occupational overexposure has produced a specific cancer. (angiosarcoma of the liver) and is associated with hepatocellular cancer. Repeated prolonged exposure may damage: skin (scleroderma), bones (acro-osteolysis), blood vessels in the hands (Raynaud's Syndrome). Suspected of causing genetic defects. Suspected of damaging fertility or the unborn child. Reproductive effects and testes damage occurred in rats exposed to vinyl chloride. These endpoints, however, were generally noted at concentrations greater than those necessary to cause liver damage.

  Looks like a lot of cost-cutting (not shipping on trains with the most modern safe braking systems?) and regulatory shenanigans (not classified as highly hazardous material?) were involved in this... oh wait, it gets better...

  > "Thousands in East Palestine, a town of about 5,000 people, evacuated, and officials warned the controlled burn would create a phosgene and hydrogen chloride plume across the region. Phosgene is a highly toxic gas that can cause vomiting and breathing trouble, and was used as a weapon in the first world war."

  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/11/ohio-train-d...

• by ctrlaltdylan on 2/12/23, 2:17 AM

  Grew up 30 miles west of East Palestine. My family is still there.

  So sad to see another struggling Midwest town dealt a death blow.

  It’s beautiful country even though it’s considered fly over and “blue collar” which is politically correct terminology for post-industrial poor.

  The EPA has roots from the Cuyahoga River fires. There was great progress made cleaning up the river and even turning portions of Northeast Ohio into a national park.

  Proud to be a Northeast Ohioan. There has been great steps forward since the industrial hay day.

  This whole event makes me so sad. This community will most likely never recover and I’m hoping against hope there aren’t serious health consequences or birth defects from this. Though I highly doubt it.

• by mouse_ on 2/12/23, 1:58 AM

  The situation is really, really bad, and in a better world, might become the foundational precedent to new laws on letting corporations regulate themselves.

  https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rule...

  Related: Louis Rossmann - New York let tech companies WRITE THE LAW! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujCQCVHukx0

• by arp242 on 2/12/23, 1:58 AM

  Archive, because I get "This content is not available in your country/region" otherwise: https://archive.is/P4IqW

• by LegitShady on 2/12/23, 1:55 AM

  Terrifying. I would be very concerned as well. Promises of safety don't mean much in the face of animals becoming sick and dying

• by twright on 2/12/23, 4:52 AM

  In a book today I stumbled on a similar accident almost ten years ago in New Jersey[1]. This one seems much more hazardous due to the combustion as well as scale of the accident.

  https://response.restoration.noaa.gov/about/media/train-dera...

  Final NTSB report: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/...

• by naasking on 2/12/23, 2:39 AM

  Stress responses and hysteria can also cause numerous health problems (see wind turbine syndrome, EMF sensitivity, etc.). People misattribute cause and effect all the time, and they notice sicknesses they would normally dismiss if there were no obvious cause that understandably heightens their paranoia.

  Which isn't to say nothing is going on either, this was a colossal regulatory failure letting these companies overwork train operators and not forcing rail operators to upgrade the braking systems. But let's also not jump to conclusions.

• by fassssst on 2/12/23, 2:06 AM

  It’s like people are living through "White Noise" by Don DeLillo. Thanks ChatGPT for helping me remember the book based on the general scenario:

  "White Noise" is a darkly comic novel that explores themes of death, consumerism, and technology. The story takes place in a small Midwestern town where a poisonous cloud, known as "The Nanny," is hanging over the area and threatening the lives of its residents. The protagonist, Jack Gladney, is a professor of Hitler Studies who becomes obsessed with the cloud and its effects on the people around him. "White Noise" is widely regarded as one of DeLillo's best works and is considered a seminal work of postmodern fiction.”

• by bamboozled on 2/12/23, 1:57 AM

  So this is Palestine, in America ?

• by Ramster on 2/12/23, 1:15 PM

  What chemicals were being transported on the train

• by octoluke on 2/12/23, 6:30 PM

  Anyone know which chemicals?

• by octoluke on 2/12/23, 6:30 PM

  What specific chemicals?