from Hacker News

Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

by quakeguy on 2/4/23, 2:55 PM with 28 comments

• by DefineOutside on 2/4/23, 5:21 PM

  > So since 2000 schools have been teaching students Microsoft skills (Adobe skills were introduced a little later).

  My most recent required computer class was indeed learning how to use Microsoft Office in high school in 2016. That's it, all the computer education that students required. Even in middle school we were learning how to use office software. Insane that schools STILL just teach office software and not computing thanks to Microsoft's efforts.

  I was hoping that schools would learn from these mistakes in the past, but we are only heading farther into the reality of locked down phones and console replacing desktops skills. General desktop skills seems much more important than learning how to use a word software.

• by karmakaze on 2/4/23, 9:35 PM

  It's a poor article that defines "use computers" as meaning "could work for the IT dept".

  > They click 'OK' in dialogue boxes without reading the message. They choose passwords like qwerty1234. They shut-down by holding in the power button until the monitor goes black. They'll leave themselves logged in on a computer and walk out of the room. If a program is unresponsive, they'll click the same button repeatedly until it crashes altogether.

  I would say these are all things we can expect and the real problem is that people can't make computers usable.

    - no undo or dialog boxes that disappear with messages you can't later relay to IT is dumb
    - password manager should be included with OS/browser, only remember main password
    - pressing the power button should sleep/suspend.
      And journaling filesystems are a thing, as is autosave so won't lose much
    - sensible defaults for screen/password timeouts
  

  So yes, the problem is between the keyboard and chair: the programmer's.

• by ericmcer on 2/4/23, 5:47 PM

  Companies have optimized products for convenience very heavily. Anytime a minor amount of friction is encountered people throw their hands up in exasperation.

  It is less that they aren't 'tech-savvy' and more that they are unwilling to dig into uncomfortable problems. There is a certain itchy feeling my brain gets when it is in totally foreign waters, it needs time to adjust to a new problem space. I think most people just bail or pick up their phones when they get that feeling.

• by msingh_5 on 2/4/23, 5:13 PM

  I've previously had software engineers on my team who didn't know how to update DNS settings on their computer or what a MAC address was. Not everyone gets into a field out of curiosity.

  It's the same as most people knowing how to drive but not being able to rebuild an engine or even replace their own windshield wipers.

  But I believe school curriculums should include some exposure to general computing as a way to make everyday life easier.

• by Forge36 on 2/4/23, 4:57 PM

  I have coworkers who program and can't troubleshoot. Too often I see people "do it for them" (I'm also guilty of this on occasion). My work offers training for most things. Surprisingly how to investigate or communicate issues isn't trained.

  Does everyone need to do everything, or can we recognize others have talents we don't? I suspect the larger exercise is "learning to learn"

• by hyperhello on 2/4/23, 5:17 PM

  Do you value kids’ time less than yours? You get paid to understand these pointless bits of complexity that have been deliberately added to keep your job safe! The kids have perceived right away that the value of a computer is in saving time, not sitting down and role playing a scientist.

• by 0x4164 on 2/5/23, 5:21 AM

  I think most people will never understand the 'deep technical stuff', and probably never will. People have its priorities. Small things like configuring wifi, using linux, etc, will always develop with time. Once most people cannot do or never learn about the simplest thing at the time, that is the real problem. We can't force people to have all the knowledge of the technician.

• by hn92726819 on 2/5/23, 6:15 PM

  I liked most of the article. But minor nit pick:

  > Without reference to Wikipedia, can you tell me what the difference is between The Internet, The World Wide Web, a web-browser and a search engine?

  I don't think the difference between `Internet` and `The World Wide Web` is really a good measure of anything. World wide web is an archaic term that I haven't seen used anywhere

• by legobridge on 2/4/23, 6:20 PM

  Wow it took a lot of effort to get through this one. The entire interaction with the other teacher was incredibly cringeworthily reported. I can't imagine anyone writing in this tone in 2023 and expecting a positive reaction from readers.

• by navjack27 on 2/4/23, 5:09 PM

  I loved this article when it was first written and I still love it now.

• by anonymouskimmer on 2/4/23, 11:52 PM

  Politicians have never known the ins and outs of what they regulate. That's what comments from the peanut gallery are for.

• by sourcecodeplz on 2/4/23, 10:06 PM

  "What's a computer?"

• by jgamman on 2/4/23, 9:16 PM

  made me smile: 95% of 5% == 5% of 95% - so no change in absolute numbers right?

• by water-your-self on 2/4/23, 5:24 PM

  TLDR section puts a bad taste of the authors ego in my mouth. Would be better to simply have not included it to begin with.