from Hacker News

Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

by cocochanel on 11/14/22, 4:00 PM with 287 comments

  • by insane_dreamer on 11/14/22, 5:31 PM

    Mass layoffs makes the news because papers depend on sensational headlines, but it's important to put into perspective.

    > The pandemic produced Amazon’s most profitable era on record ... Amazon doubled its work force in two years, and funneled its winnings into expansion and experimentation to find the next big things.

    So it doubled its head count in the past 3 years and is now trimming by 3% (or 1% of global).

    Update: Tried to figure out whether the doubling head count was corporate employees or total. I don't have time to dig into it now but a quick search did turn up Amazon's EEO reports in which they break employees down into a number of categories including "Professionals" -- which sounds like it would include engineers. 77K in 2019, 121K in 2021. So it's reasonable to assume those did double from 2019 to the present. See https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/workplace/our-workforce-dat...

  • by green-eclipse on 11/14/22, 4:29 PM

    This is just the latest round of cuts at Amazon: "From April through September, it reduced head count by almost 80,000 people, primarily shrinking its hourly staff through high attrition."

    Also: "Amazon froze hiring in several smaller teams in September. In October, it stopped filling more than 10,000 open roles in its core retail business. Two weeks ago, it froze corporate hiring across the company, including its cloud computing division, for the next few months."

  • by green-eclipse on 11/14/22, 4:32 PM

    > In 2018, Echo and Alexa lost about $5 billion, said a person with knowledge of the finances. When Amazon introduced new devices this fall in an annual event, it was notably more restrained than past years when it had featured zany products like a sticky note printer and $1,000 home robot.

    $5B loss from one business line is a lot. Maybe this manner of investment inspired Zuck on the metaverse.

  • by zackmorris on 11/14/22, 5:15 PM

    Something I've never understood about layoffs is that large corporations have nearly unlimited borrowing power. Amazon's market cap is just over $1 trillion, so it could probably borrow up to ~10x or $10 trillion against that (almost half the US GDP).

    Isn't that enough money to keep employees through a downturn?

    The flip side is that individuals have almost no borrowing power. The bottom 40% of the US population has a negative net worth, so can't borrow anything:

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2016/02/the-costs-of-...

    To me, this looks like evidence that profit comes from offloading externalities onto the public.

    Ordinarily, workers could find work at other companies. But because companies are so large now, they have effective monopolies in markets like shipping. So layoffs could be used as a signal to bring companies up on antitrust charges.

  • by lbriner on 11/14/22, 5:20 PM

    This is so completely normal in these industries that it is a non-headline.

    Companies that have so much cash they can employ 100K+ developers on top of goodness knows how many designers, PMs, POs etc. of course they hire and fire. They can afford to offer above-average conditions when the markets need it and everyone goes flocking there only to be surprised when their job is taken away at the next point the shareholders are bothered about ROI.

    If you want to ride the unicorns and take the risk, that's fine, but there are plenty of people around the world who have far fewer choices with their work and are paid far less so I don't feel too bad that someone's Christmas might be not as expected.

    If you want job security, get a job somewhere that isn't trying to earn their next billion, where you can make a difference, where you are appreciated and where work/life balance means something. I expect you would feel much better :-)

  • by dmix on 11/14/22, 5:04 PM

    Did they also massively expand their staff during the pandemic like Twitter/FB did?

    Edit: looks like they grew headcount by 60% (+500,000 people) in 2020 and 23% (+310,000) in 2021.

    Today's announcement reduces headcount by 1% which is tiny compared to their growth.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/number...

  • by bena on 11/14/22, 4:36 PM

    This is weird because I'm in the middle of the interview process with a division of Amazon.

    Disclaimer:

    I have a job and haven't been actively looking, but recruiters will reach out and I'll usually go through the interview process if only to practice.

    And here we go:

    I got the initial email around the middle of September for one particular division. As I went through the initial assessment, that division "met their hiring goals" and I was transferred to another division.

    Through September and October, I organized the virtual on-site. And my interview was scheduled for last week. The weeks prior, as we know, the shit hit all the fans. I fully expected to get a "too bad, so sad" email saying my interview was cancelled. It wasn't. I went through the interview and I'm waiting to hear back currently.

    But yeah, I would not be surprised to get a rejection. But from the point of view of my experience, nothing they've done or said has made anything seem off.

  • by green-eclipse on 11/14/22, 4:25 PM

  • by rabuse on 11/14/22, 4:48 PM

    This is going to be a terrible holiday season for a lot of people.
  • by FabianBeiner on 11/14/22, 5:22 PM

    Meanwhile, they built the “Amazon Tower” in Berlin (the highest skyscraper in Berlin right now) and are looking to fill it with around 4,000 employees in 2024: https://www-tagesspiegel-de.translate.goog/berlin/hochster-t...
  • by fred_is_fred on 11/14/22, 5:06 PM

    For those of you in the business who missed 2000-2002 and/or to a lesser extent 2008, you have no idea what is coming. Good luck.
  • by samanator on 11/14/22, 10:16 PM

    Why did this never make it to the front page of hackernews? I had to search it up to find it.
  • by andrew_ on 11/14/22, 4:37 PM

    Can't help but be reminded of this scene from "The Fifth Element" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO6UY6uTg
  • by __derek__ on 11/14/22, 4:45 PM

    > The company has sold hundreds of millions of Alexa-enabled devices. But Amazon has said the products are often low margin and other potential revenue sources such as voice shopping have not caught on.

    This is the game, right? For the first time since Alexa launched, Amazon is looking at a painful Q4, so the rest of retail can't cover up the Devices org's big wart.

  • by allisdust on 11/14/22, 5:08 PM

    The recession depending on who you ask seem to be either mild or not happening. All the government indicators (recent inflation, gdp, jobs report) seem to paint a thriving economy.

    So why are these companies still shedding jobs? I'm starting to wonder if the tech industry is disproportionately impacted similar to dot com bubble from 2000.

  • by greatpostman on 11/14/22, 4:26 PM

    1.6 million counts warehouse employees. Retail and Alexa corporate employees is probably 100k
  • by noobermin on 11/14/22, 4:25 PM

    There has been a lot of talk about a correction coming and a bubble bursting specifically in tech for years now. Is this it?
  • by yrgulation on 11/14/22, 5:22 PM

    Coordinated actions aimed at depressing tech wages and forcing return to office.
  • by nightski on 11/14/22, 5:22 PM

    It's fascinating how there are so many layoffs going on across the economy and yet unemployment is staying so low.
  • by googlryas on 11/14/22, 6:25 PM

    Funny, I've been getting recruiter spam every week from the same set of people, and their last email 3 weeks ago was titled "AWS - This could be the last chance to join the team!!!"
  • by jstx1 on 11/14/22, 4:07 PM

    10 000 out of 1 500 000
  • by peplee on 11/14/22, 6:31 PM

    Not sure if other states have a similar system, but Washington posts information about layoffs here: https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN. Looks like Amazon Health Services is getting cut as part of this.
  • by elforce002 on 11/14/22, 9:44 PM

    Amazon really is something else. Loyalty is really expensive and there'll come a day when they will learn that the hard way. I know these layoffs are because of the uncertainty of the economy but they already have bad rep with things like "hire to fire" candidates, etc...
  • by 1letterunixname on 11/14/22, 5:35 PM

    From people who work high-up in AWS, I heard this doesn't generally affect them.
  • by clarge1120 on 11/14/22, 5:17 PM

    This could be Amazon anticipating a very slow holiday season.
  • by blobbers on 11/14/22, 5:17 PM

    Amazon lists employees at 1.6M employees worldwide. (https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/number...)

    Even if they have 1% churn each month, that's about 16,000 turnover a month. Laying off 10,000 is not news until we find out where the cuts are happening.

  • by jbaczuk on 11/14/22, 5:15 PM

    And once these jobs open up again, the U.S. government will take credit for "creating" the new jobs.
  • by prometheus76 on 11/14/22, 5:23 PM

    I remember when NYT took pride in its headline writing.
  • by madduci on 11/14/22, 6:32 PM

    Will they use the 10-15% cut like everyone else?
  • by tamaharbor on 11/14/22, 4:05 PM

    And they say we are not in a recession.
  • by rapjr9 on 11/15/22, 1:33 AM

    Maybe Bezos can start giving his fortune away philanthropically starting with these laid off people.
  • by imwillofficial on 11/14/22, 6:33 PM

    Well shit
  • by tibbydudeza on 11/14/22, 4:34 PM

    Covid boom is over ???.
  • by lukaesch on 11/14/22, 4:19 PM

    Looks like a lot of new people will rush to http://www.bestpaidremotejobs.com again.

    The latest wave of followers came due to the latest Twitter and Meta layoffs.