by owlbynight on 10/10/22, 4:25 PM with 179 comments
by AgentK20 on 10/10/22, 6:37 PM
by magic_hamster on 10/11/22, 6:15 AM
As for the range of motion: input is the cornerstone of every game system and technology in general. The content is defined by the physical input of the device. That's why touchscreen games are different from console games, why you have autoaim in consoles while it's considered cheating on PC. In VR the input is your head and hand movements, and it extends to your movements in the room too.
VR is not missing the point. It might be missing accessibility features for disabled people (although some applications do try their best, like Half Life Alyx, and stationary mode is available for most applications). While I feel for the author for not being able to enjoy VR in their special circumstances, there's only so much the developers can do.
> Why is VR more restrictive than my 27” monitor?
Because you're trying to use it as such while being unable to use the intended input methods. It's like asking how is cycling slower than walking when you can't ride a bicycle.
by DoneWithAllThat on 10/10/22, 9:56 PM
by scyzoryk_xyz on 10/10/22, 8:33 PM
My own suspicion is that the one company that can make a substantial move on this space has done extensive research on this topic and that they're waiting patiently until the technology gets to just the right sweet spot. I'm talking about screen resolution, processor size/speed/power, miniaturization, inside-out hand-tracking etc. But once that device gets rolling, developers will have a lot of work on their hands figuring out how to design these sorts of spaces and how to make work comfortable and natural in these sorts of environments.
by dexwiz on 10/10/22, 5:24 PM
Sure, it looks really cool to make big sweeping motions, and have them reflected in the digital world. But in reality, most people want to minimum input/maximum result. We need the power steering UX for VR.
by gernb on 10/11/22, 12:36 AM
Let's imagine perfect VR (the Matrix). Would it be better to play Mahjong, Poker, Blackjack, Chess, pick your favorite board game, with real pieces setting at a real table or at a computer terminal moving pieces with your mouse? I get each person might have a different answer to that.
What I like about "immersion" when done right is I just do the thing I already know how to do. Pick up the ball, cards, dice. I don't have to fiddle with one 18 buttons on the 2 controllers (up, down, left, right, press, A, B, upper trigger, lower trigger) x (left hand, right hand) .... actually 20 buttons if you include the "system" buttons on each controller.
This is one thing I hated about No Man's Sky in VR. I enjoyed it over all and never played non-VR No Man's Sky, but, while flying and aiming the gun/probe is VR, all the inventory management is 18 button based and even 25hrs in I'd be pressing the wrong button on each menu option.
Now of course, VR isn't good enough yet to do this "immersion" so often, picking up the cards, ball, etc, is just to damn fiddley. Maybe I have to put my hand 10cm past where my brain believes the object is. I've had that very frustrating experience where I can't reach the thing in VR because it's below the physical floor in my room or behind the wall/sofa/desk, so there's a lot to be fixed.
And, also, of course maybe someone will figure out better interfaces without the constraints of the physical world. For example I'm a little sad when someone makes a piano in VR given that you could invent a new instrument with a sphere of controls around you.
But, every time I play a VR game that makes me memorize which of 18 buttons to press I want to scream.
by Ukv on 10/10/22, 7:59 PM
I think people do care about factors that add towards the feeling of physical presence. Would maybe go as far as to say that it's the primary point of VR tabletop simulator games as opposed to the more convenient sites/apps for playing and chatting.
Support for more/arbitrary seated positions seems like it'd make sense though.
by barnabee on 10/10/22, 9:43 PM
by 3qz on 10/10/22, 6:29 PM
I have never disagreed with an opinion on VR more. The worst VR experiences are the ones that would be possible without the VR. I thought half life Alyx was bad because of this. I don’t want to treat my headset as just another screen.
by Melatonic on 10/10/22, 9:01 PM
In my opinion what we really need is the metaverse but for hackers. A bunch of business suits meeting in real life or VR will always be boring and sterile. But a place that has the magic of early IRC where a group of whitehats and blackhats anonymously can meet virtually? That could be pretty damn cool and result in some whacky crazy avatars and out of the box environments. Imagine a completely P2P capable hackerverse that mashed together something like Mr. Robot and A Scanner Darkly and your friend shows up looking like a cybernetic android dolphin. You won't see the suits Hug in VR - they're all about Handshakes ;-)
by recursive on 10/10/22, 8:22 PM
There is no non-zero speed of free looking that solves my motion sickness. If "free movement" is the only way to move around space in a VR title, then it's unplayable by me.
Nothing mitigates it. Vignetting, reticles, low-acceleration movement curves. None of it really has an impact on my immediate visceral reaction.
by vlunkr on 10/10/22, 8:20 PM
Maybe I don't understand the point of VR chat apps, but if you're hiding your avatar, what is the point? You may as well just use discord.
by LarsDu88 on 10/11/22, 7:34 AM
by phkahler on 10/11/22, 2:05 AM
by xwdv on 10/10/22, 7:31 PM
No sir, restrictions are the point. Restrictions are what prevent a reality from simply being a bunch of abstract concepts floating in and out of existence without rules or reason.
Our physical reality has many restrictions: we cannot move through objects, energy is conserved, entropy cannot reverse. These are the restrictions we have to face. And in virtual reality you will have virtual restrictions.
by tartoran on 10/11/22, 1:55 AM
by cableshaft on 10/10/22, 11:26 PM
I actually have an issue where my right thigh starts burning like crazy if I stand in place for too long (walks are just fine, I can go for miles no problem, but if I mostly stand in place it starts being an issue until I sit down for a bit). I don't know exactly what causes it, but I'm guessing it's probably related to a known bulging disc in my lower back, pinching the nerve a bit.
There's quite a few games that are good for 'seated in an executive chair', like where you can still spin around to react to things behind you, but several of those games don't really let you spin using the motion controller for if you're in a non-spinning chair (some do, I'm thankful for those). Also I've noticed that several games have height adjustment for sitting but for some reason the limits they set on it are too small and/or you have to go into a menu to adjust it. There are times in a game where I mostly want it to be a certain height, but something fell on the ground or at some weird position that's just out of a comfortable height for sitting, so I want to adjust it real quick to grab something and reset it back, but there's not a good way to do it.
I'm not saying you have to do these things, but the games that have a good 'sit in a chair that doesn't swivel' experience get played a lot more than my other games, especially if it's a story driven game. I even play Ragnarock (viking drumming game) more than Beat Saber some weeks, to get my arms moving without having to stand mostly in place.
by dvirsky on 10/10/22, 8:06 PM
That's true, but another thing that to me is a huge blocker in that sense, is simply having an accent. When I'm writing in chat rooms my English is fluent and I can just fit right in. But I'm really awkward going into a conversation with a foreign accent in the metaverse.
Even though my accent is not strong at all, and I live in the US and have no problem interacting with people f2f or on the phone/Zoom all day, something about it in the metaverse just makes me feel too self conscious about it. It's weird, it's the only space in which I feel like that, it could just be me I suppose.
by ohCh6zos on 10/10/22, 7:26 PM
by vineyardmike on 10/10/22, 6:06 PM
IMO accessibility does need to be a consideration, VR can be a big help to disabled. That said, I don’t agree that the default should be “remove UX for accessibility”. I’d wager that mimicking the real world is VRs “files and desktops” skeuomorphic analogy that makes it more approachable in the short run to new users. Like other devices, there should probably be an accessibility mode in VR tools. The authors use case seems pretty common (reclining to use a headset) and probably should be handled well at the OS level.
by wisnoskij on 10/10/22, 8:29 PM
Yes, titles need to be better at seated play, because it is a reasonable way to play, given almost no one has enough room to actually walk around.
But the entire point of VR is the controllers, not the headset. The headset is a huge pain in the ass, annoying, blurry, and tiring to use. No one would put on a headset if it were possible to transfer hand movements to a game world any other way. The monitor has to be glued to your face, but that is a downside, not the benefit.
by dncornholio on 10/11/22, 7:51 AM
Simracing really got a thousand times better with VR. Completely eliminates the need to have 3 flatscreens on your rig. Also the immersion when racing other cars in VR is just something else.
The best cockpit VR games are iRacing, Automobilista 2, DCS World and Elite Dangerous.
Using it for anything else makes no sense to me. Especially walking around in some world, I prefer to do it in 3rd person with a controller.
by dirtyoldmick on 10/10/22, 5:59 PM
by neither_color on 10/11/22, 2:12 AM
This part of the article really got my attention and I wonder if there's a better way to re-imagine the chat-lurker dynamic for VR. The author suggests opacity and free looking but I wonder if there's a better way to convey a crowd of people who are supposed to lurk. That way you get a visual representation of how many people are in a chat. What immediately comes to mind for me are:
1. theater/stadium seating
2. rap battle format(a group of people in a spontaneous circle around 2 main speakers
3. Some sort of Oxford debate(https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-re...) app so you can listen in on people with strong opinions.
by chatterhead on 10/10/22, 7:40 PM
https://www.omnifinity.se is a pretty awesome concept that I'm keeping an eye on.
by outside1234 on 10/10/22, 10:27 PM
The key is that these are things that are either hard to do in reality (flight) without a lot of risk or that people can't do in reality for whatever reason (like when there is snow or lots of rain with Zwift).
What people do not want is ordinary reality in cartoons.
by tootie on 10/10/22, 7:50 PM
by taylodl on 10/11/22, 4:23 PM
by gernb on 10/11/22, 12:19 AM
Trover saves the Universe: This even makes fun of the fact that you're stuck in a chair. You're called a Chairorian.
No Man's Sky: Most of the time you sit in a pilot's seat
Astrobot (PSVR): Arguably one of the most polished VR games to date.
Farpoint (PSVR): Again, designed to be played from a sofa
No guarantee they can be played from a recliner. In fact I think No Man's Sky in particular worked best from a chair with no arms, like a dining room table chair.
On other hand, most of my favorite experiences in VR, much of the enjoyment comes from physical movement. Half Life Alyx, Jet Island, Until You Fall, Eye of the Temple, Audica (on harder levels), Synth Riders (on harder levels).
by yCloser on 10/11/22, 6:53 AM
Even in winter, after a couple of minutes the headset screen is completely foggy and my head is uncomfortable
I tried the oculus, htc, cardboards... all the same. At this point I think this technology will simply not work for me
by roboy on 10/11/22, 6:15 AM
by lucasfcosta on 10/11/22, 5:12 AM
Furthermore, the resolution also meant I couldn't see code on the virtual screens unless I zoomed in significantly.
IMO that's an impediment to the majority of the further use cases.
by kjkjadksj on 10/11/22, 3:41 AM
by eezing on 10/11/22, 2:06 PM
The top selling titles on Quest have been at the top for years. The Apple App Store model alone will not catapult the platform.
Meta should deprioritize Horizon (a Mii lookalike ain’t it) and spend the next 10 years developing 1st party titles. Set the benchmark. Learn best practices. Let the technology evolve.
We’re not ready for Ready Player One.
by sys_64738 on 10/10/22, 8:28 PM
For me, I think the winning strategy of VR is to not have to wear goggles and something that can generate smells as this is our most powerful sense.
by syntheweave on 10/10/22, 8:48 PM
Like a lot of cool future dreams, there's a need for a "yes, and" follow-up that grapples with the consequences honestly.
by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on 10/11/22, 2:17 AM
I'm extremely interested in VR but I'm cynical about what implementation will catch on.
by hartator on 10/10/22, 10:20 PM
This. VR misses the boat thanks to Facebook's vision of a brand new world, instead of just a better more-accessible screen.
It is the future for sure, but no one will care for fake 3D experience of your people. We want an actual reinvention of what an OS is, a higher bandwidth input, and a new way to visualize things. Instead of 2D views in a 3D environment. Such a miss opportunity so far.
by fspacek on 10/10/22, 4:48 PM