by michaelcao on 10/7/22, 10:10 AM with 291 comments
by WastingMyTime89 on 10/7/22, 1:36 PM
So for what’s worth, here is my advice to you: drop Gladwell and self-help books, if you want to and can switch to a new job, do it. Should it work or fail, you will have experienced trying. If you don’t feel like it or find yourself unable to because banks won’t loan to you, you can’t be hired or it’s finally not financially viable, don’t do it and rest in peace knowing it was your decision/you tried.
You don’t need an external reason like being too old or outside validation, you are old enough to make your own choice.
by iainctduncan on 10/7/22, 2:09 PM
In a nutshell, Ericsson never said "10k hours will make you world class" or "it takes 10k hours for mastery". He said (BIG simplifying paraphrase here) "the most notable difference we saw in elite performers between sub-elites and elites was practice, with most elites having achieved roughly 10k hours, or 10 years of 3 hours a day". He also limited this to PRACTICE, a part Gladwell totally missed. (ie the Beatles example is complete bullshit, gigs are not practice). He never said it was either necessary (lots of music prodigies are world class in way less) or sufficient (literally millions of people do 10k hours and get just decent).
So... throw that book in the garbage and make your decision on other criteria. There are many, many good books on learning and performance, but not by popular hacks like Gladwell. Anecdotally, I know lots of people who started new pursuits (and got very good), or successfully switched careers or started new businesses in their 40s.
It's really not about age, it's about all the parameters that are typically associated with age. As in, by the time people hit their 40's, most people can no longer carve out the time to consistently spend time learning a new thing, and are way out of practice at learning. Most, not all. I know lots of professional musicians, for example, who took up some other hobby late in life and got very very good, because their entire life has been constructed around leaving time for effective learning, and they are experts at learning something on their own. If you can rearrange life to enable you to learn effectively (or found a company, or whatever), 43 is a great age.
by petercooper on 10/7/22, 12:43 PM
Grace Hopper first entered computing at age 38, completed the first compiler at age 46, influenced the design of COBOL at age 53, wrote COBOL for the Navy through her 70s, retired from the Navy aged 80 and only then became a consultant for DEC. So for me, at least, I reckon I can keep going in my 40s.. :-)
by tgv on 10/7/22, 10:35 AM
* The 10000 hour rule is nonsense. There are skills that require very much practice, and a lot of those are unattainable for most people. You could practice 10,000 hours on the violin or playing chess without reaching the lofty heights of Hahn or Magnusson. That does require some kind of "talent".
* Many other skills can be acquired in much less time, certainly if you don't start from scratch. E.g., learning a 2nd programming language takes much less time than the 1st.
* I've been switching jobs all my life; on average after about 5 years. 43 isn't very old to switch, IMO.
* Think about what is important to you: Money? Stability? Job satisfaction? Can you find a new job that gives you what you want and need?
by soneca on 10/7/22, 10:33 AM
I switched careers from marketing to software development at 37 yo. It took me 8 months of full-time study (I had the privilege to be able to quit my job to do that) to get my first job as a front-end developer. Now, 5 years later, I think it was the best professional decision I have ever made in my life. I am much happier doing daily work than before and, now, I earn much more than I used to (despite a significant salary cut for my first dev job).
To put in hours, I would say 8 months averaging 7 hours of dedication on week days is about 1232 hours.
And I am no master, far from it. I am a competent, mediocre, regular 1x web developer. Some weeks I am 0.5x, some weeks I am 2x.
by mustafabisic1 on 10/7/22, 10:30 AM
It's appropriately called "There’s no speed limit". A lot of rules from there apply here as well.
It's about a guy who finished college in 2 years, if I remember correctly.
I've written it down on my white-board and remind myself about it everyday.
Thought you might find it useful.
P.S. I'm working on believing in myself and shamelessly plugging my weekly newsletter for remote working parents everywhere - check it out. https://thursdaydigest.com/
by monster_group on 10/7/22, 10:22 AM
by YawningAngel on 10/7/22, 10:19 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/the-dan-p... https://archive.ph/yPd3R
by bejd on 10/7/22, 11:03 AM
Ericsson describes "deliberate practice". That is, to become an expert you must "work on high specific tasks assigned to overcome weaknesses, and you would have your performance monitored carefully for further improvement" [2]
[1] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1993-40718-001
[2] https://www.ysamphy.com/anders-ericsson-deliberate-practice/
by ergonaught on 10/7/22, 12:48 PM
2) The second bit of advice is to examine this "reality" thing. You can, obviously, switch careers anytime you want. Only you can define what "success" in that career will mean for you, what investments will be required in order to achieve it, whether you will enjoy the process, whether you are asking the impossible of reality (a very short, sedentary, middle aged person just isn't going to switch into the "Professional NBA Superstar" career), and so on.
3) Your life expectancy is, what, roughly 80 years now? You've spent maybe 20 or so on your current career. You've got twice that remaining, theoretically, and you're concerned about time having run out already?
All this is a roundabout way of saying your own attitudes toward all of this are the main, though not the only, challenge you'll need to address provided you are not asking to violate physiology/etc.
by Barrin92 on 10/7/22, 10:38 AM
In many places people have started over four or five times, not once. And by the way you don't need 10k hours or be a master-anything to have a viable career in a field, just enough experience to get a foot in the door.
by rossdavidh on 10/7/22, 2:07 PM
Also, just because you're not great at something initially, doesn't mean you cannot become great, because it takes many thousands of hours of practice to become great.
No doubt the 10k rule varies according to field, because some fields are new, and no one has 10k hours yet. There are programmers with 10k hours, but most of the professionals in the field do not have 10k hours yet, for example. The definition of "great" (and therefore the # of hours required) is relative to others in that field.
I switched into programming in my 30's, when many programmers start to rotate out of it because they believe they are too old. I probably am not as good at certain things as others, but I also bring experience from previous careers to improve the odds that I am programming the right thing in the first place.
If you switch careers, it will take time to become good at the new one, and you (and your finances) need to be able to accommodate that. But it definitely happens.
by ChrisMarshallNY on 10/7/22, 1:00 PM
I've probably done my most meaningful work, in the last 15 years. I feel that I learn more quickly -and better- than I ever did, when I was younger.
It's hard to get 10K hours into anything, these days, as tech is a moving target, but it's doable.
Being OCD (like me) is helpful.
These days, I specialize in Swift programming, for Apple devices. I'm really obsessive about it (My GH Activity Graph is solid green, and it's pretty much all Swift[0]). Even with writing Swift, every day (since the day it was announced), I feel as if I'm just barely keeping up.
by anemoiac on 10/7/22, 10:41 AM
To answer your question: it depends on your specific context. At 43, you could theoretically still gain the required qualifications for most careers and work for ~ 20 years (ex. you'd be 67/68 after 4 years spent earning a new degree + 20 years working). The more relevant consideration is will you actually be able to do that as a working 43-year-old with normal responsibilities?
Another question you seem to allude to is "will ageism be a limiting factor?" That answer is also context-dependent. At a lot of trendy companies mentioned here on HN, I'd suspect that it would be. That said, those companies are only a fraction of the job market and I'm not sure more "boring" companies would be as concerned with age as with your skills. Outside of tech and some competitive (+ conservative) industries like finance or consulting, I don't think it would be as big of a deal.
by GianFabien on 10/7/22, 10:18 AM
by eloff on 10/7/22, 2:38 PM
You can definitely switch careers at any age. But you also should think about it in terms of both personal satisfaction and opportunity costs. There's a tendency to think the grass will be greener in the new career. That may not be true, most generally available work has large unsatisfying components - otherwise you wouldn't need to pay people to do it. The other thing is opportunity costs. If your new career requires losing 4 years of income while you do an undergraduate degree, plus paying for said degree, then you're 48 and have maybe 17 working years left until retirement (varies, but just an example) then you have to think if you wouldn't just make more money in your existing career, with less risk. Money might not be your primary objective here, but it often is. Also could your family afford for you to be earning negative income (paying for training) while retraining, for the duration required?
There's no one-size fits all advice. Just don't rule it out because of your age. Do the math and be logical, not emotional, about it. Get some friends to check your math, because they will be more impartial than you.
by danesparza on 10/7/22, 1:08 PM
My wife is an RN. She went to nursing school in her 40's and became a nurse.
I have a coworker who was a teacher in their 20's, went to school again, and is now a software developer.
I have a coworker who as a Civil engineer, went to school again and is also a software developer.
It can be done.
What will you do with your one wild and precious life?
by secretsatan on 10/7/22, 2:06 PM
I switched to mobile dev, although still in a related field. Well, I didn't just start out that way, to keep myself occupied during redundancy, i developed some fun stuff I was doing on MacOS, someone liked it and wondered if they could do the same on their iPhone, so I worked out how to do that.
I put several years of time into it, it wasn't a very successful project for making money, but it gave me something to demonstrate when applying for mobile jobs at the age of 43, and eventually landed me a job.
I had plenty of related experience I suppose and soon started making an impression in my new line, now I work on an app I developed and proposed myself to the company. I feel happier I work with more modern languages, that I can come up with an app a company thought had enough potential to invest time and money in, and is slowly starting to get successful and has an impact in my industry.
by adamgordonbell on 10/7/22, 12:49 PM
The problem though is all these books are about well understood domains with a pedagogical framework you can grind thru. There is nobody saying this works in a field like 'entrepreneurship'.
All the evidence is in things like chess or playing the violin where the path is well worn and a coach or mentor can keep you on the right path.
In those fields, yes, deliberate practise works.
https://www.amazon.ca/Peak-Secrets-New-Science-Expertise-ebo...
https://www.amazon.ca/Talent-Overrated-Separates-World-Class...
by theGeatZhopa on 10/7/22, 10:43 AM
Just imagine playing guitar from the beginning until you reach 10000 h of physical practice. Just say.. 10h a day ..that would mean 3 years of extensive training. You for sure will be a Master after that.
Or, just assume everyday 1h of practicing. That's 10000 days.. something like 30 years..
So this rule doesn't mean you can't be a Master if you didn't invest 10k h of practicing, but rather, no matter what you do,if you do it for 3 +x years, you sure will be a Master at that.
Bullshit truth!
Go for it, if it's something you can enjoy.
Go for it, if you can use your aforequainted knowledge.
Go for it, if you see some chances for being able to say "it enables me to work more for myself and less for one another".
Go for it, if your life needs a complete change.
But keep in mind, that you may need to lower your spendings. If you can't lower your spendings for some reason - then, think twice about switching careers. It's up to you, whether you can cope with possibly lower income.
Keep us informed:)
by smeej on 10/7/22, 12:49 PM
If you tell yourself you're too old to make a change or learn new things, you'll find it harder to make a change and learn new things.
If you tell yourself you're going to meet challenges, as everybody does, but you're better equipped to solve them now than you ever have been, you'll be able to handle whatever comes your way.
I'm not always a "mindset is everything" person, but when it comes to believing you can or can't do something really important to you that's well within the scope of what ordinary people do all the time (i.e., you're unlikely to be able to pivot to an elite athletics role), believing you can do it too makes a big difference.
by ilc on 10/7/22, 6:37 PM
My "career" switches with each job. I go from Defense, to Logistics, to Mathematics, to Systems Software, to now Databases.
I'm not trained in all these to 10,000 hours. I have 25+ years at this, and I still have to learn at every job when I start.
So, the most important thing is the core. The very core competencies of a programmer:
- Rigor - You must be willing to rigorously think things through.
- Mathematics - With the above, most of what a computer does is... math in the end. Algerbra is probably the most essential, ironically. Followed by Discrete Math. The rest is all nice to have.
- A bit of "Computer Science". Learning algorithms, what O(n) means, etc. This helps you understand how to think.
Note: I never mentioned a computer language.
A computer language is how you take all the above and turn it into something.
You should work on learning a few. But honestly, one you know 2 languages, you know 90% of all languages, and can read most code.
The languages I'd suggest: Python, and C.
People will curse me for C. But honestly for understanding how a computer works at a low level, there is no better language, it strips away the bullshit and leaves you to deal with the machine, but it doesn't force your nose into assembly, which is probably a bit much for a young programmer.
Python, is what you learn to do "real work". I interview in Python, Python and Python... and maybe a bit of Python. There's a reason. It is a language that you can really get things done in quickly, and manipulate things easily. It is the "anti-C" in many ways :).
One can argue for Java also. But really, Java is miserable without an IDE, and the machine does so much coding for you, I think it is a bad early language. Once you know the first two... I think it is a great one to pick up.
by bloqs on 10/7/22, 11:13 AM
Intellectual capacity doesnt change much until past about 70 and it's tied to long term diet, lifestyle and external factors. Personality is also largely plastic past the age of 6. It can shift over time, and this is one of the advantages of youth, you are still malleable.
Age beings to rob this from you as routine and habit starts to build up parts of your brain. Change takes time. 43 is still young in the grand scheme of things, particularly in 2022, but you must question if the change you want is simply your personality being novelty-seeking or the grass being greener elsewhere.
One good reason is if your personality fit has been bad to your current work.
by osigurdson on 10/7/22, 1:28 PM
Examples of type 1 endeavours are violin, guitar, chess, skateboarding, gymnastics, hockey, soccer, competitive programming and slope style mountain biking.
Examples of type 2 endeavours are cycling and long distance running.
Examples of type 3 endeavours are sprinting, poetry and power lifting
This is a bit of a strawman, but I think it has the potential to be more accurate than GMCA can be achieved simply in 10K hours.
by defrost on 10/7/22, 11:18 AM
That said, there are really only two criteria for sliding into a new job area:
* people that will actually hire you | allow you to work along side them,
* your ability to not be a dead weight and to assist in at least the TA | fetching food and drink | cleaning away tools and cables | etc dogsbody roles.
It takes a long time to master many trades, it takes far less time to take part at the lowest levels and to start learning.
My background is folk that take pride in being jack of all trades master of none, I've specialised a little and can count myself jack of many trades, 'master' of a few.
by f1shy on 10/7/22, 3:38 PM
It is never late! Just try. Failure is not trying.
Btw no sure if that is your case, but this remembers me of the story:
One guy was in a train visibly uncomfortable. At every stop, he was totally annoyed, and each stop worst. Other guy ask him why is he in such discomfort. “You see, I bought the ticket wrong, I’m going in the wrong direction. At each stop I think of stepping out, but that would mean losing the ticket completely!”
If you are doing something not fulfilling, doesn’t matter how much you have invested. Stop and take the right direction.
by Dowwie on 10/7/22, 12:59 PM
I think the real challenge is seeing a vast region of mountains ahead and mustering the willpower and focus necessary to traverse them. You have to want it and will it into reality. The journey begins with the next step.
The 10,000 hour is bunk, by the way. Not even Gladwell will defend it. It was an interesting story about peak performance, but not scientifically valid.
by pessimizer on 10/7/22, 4:14 PM
I'm also trying to actively forget song lyrics, but that probably doesn't help. I do hate that probably 5% of my brain is filled with lyrics, and probably 1% is filled with the lyrics of songs that I don't even like. I hope they invent a plasticity drug that I can inject directly into the song lyrics center of my brain ("Bowie's Area," maybe?)
by noufalibrahim on 10/7/22, 11:19 AM
Being better at (say) web development than all the other people in your company that have other skills immediately makes you valuable in a specific way and starts your career shift. You can build up on that over the years.
There are ways to reconfigure your life other than by "Switching". More gradual ways to ease into another career exist and can be worthwhile. Everything comes with a cost though so make sure you're willing to pay it.
by helsinkiandrew on 10/7/22, 1:56 PM
Having said that there are many things you can be good at, make a living at, and enjoy doing before becoming a true expert. Or that your existing skills will transfer too.
The important thing is to see (as much as you can) if you will enjoy doing and working hard at the "other job" before you make the leap
by spamizbad on 10/7/22, 6:09 PM
It can be done. I would focus less on hours and more on just finding something you can stick with and develop professionally.
by erokar on 10/7/22, 10:52 AM
But first, figure out if this is something you would like doing. Take a course like e.g. this https://www.coursera.org/learn/python for a month (you can audit it for free) and see if you actually like programming. If you do, carry on.
by crispyambulance on 10/7/22, 3:05 PM
I think the most underestimated "hard part" of mastering something new is that the path to mastery often looks like one failure after another. A long string of incompetence that makes one appear like a cargo-culting dilettante who keeps trying even as it appears they aren't getting anywhere. This is hard for folks to take, especially later in their careers. One has to have a thick skin to get through it.
by elforce002 on 10/7/22, 3:32 PM
1- You succeeded trying it.
2- Neutral outcome (still a win).
3- You fail. Failing at something will only teach you how to do it better or at its worst, leave you at the bottom of the barrel. The only thing you have after that is to get up and keep moving forward.
The other side of that would be regret. Regret has to be the worst feeling in the world. The "why I didn't do it" thought will hunt you for the rest of your life.
by simonblack on 10/7/22, 11:51 PM
<grin> I switched wives at age 42. That was my biggest life-change ever. That old saying "Life begins at 40" is so very true.
Here's the thing: "YOU CAN SWITCH CAREERS NO MATTER WHAT AGE YOU ARE."
Most of us have opportunities to switch careers many times during our lives. Some of us take one or more of those opportunities as they arise, and some of us don't. It's your choice.
Some of us are forced into different careers, because of external factors. That can be at any age. I was forced to take over the family property-rental business when I was 62. Yes I'm still 'working' a decade or so later, if you call working one to two hours a month 'working'. Money ceases to be a factor in your life when you have more money available than you can reasonably expect to spend in the years you have left.
In my forties, I passed up an opportunity to become a computer programmer in the medical field when my first wife declined to move to a larger city.
Five or so years later, I qualified as a commercial pilot, but the aviation downturn in the early nineties meant I earned more in my normal career as pharmacist at that time, then later on I was no longer able to pass the Aviation Medical.
by treya on 10/7/22, 4:58 PM
It's important to note that "practice" can't be something like, for example, simply taking tennis lessons - you must be challenged and struggle for it to have an impact. I would also include desire as being essential - it must be something you truly want to do, not something you just go through the motions for. Also consider that your physical health, regular exercise, diet and quality of sleep are intimately tied to cognitive growth.
by sabman83 on 10/7/22, 11:13 AM
I am no master. But I enjoy the job and I am happier. I made the switch at 36.
by lawn on 10/7/22, 10:28 AM
But you're right that you can switch career and with enough practice (of the dedicated kind) you can indeed acquire proficiency in any skill.
by piscatorialvet on 10/7/22, 2:43 PM
by gonzo41 on 10/7/22, 10:35 AM
I work in software, a sideways step for me would be to go towards admin / networky stuff, or to start doing BA style work.
Fresh starts are hard only if you have existing commitments.
by pizza234 on 10/7/22, 10:37 AM
I actually think even more radically - career, or success in general, is not necessarily a matter of mastery, and thinking in terms of technical skills, may lead to failure, because the requirements for success may be other ones.
In particular, successfully founding a company may require many qualities (and acts) that have nothing to do with technical skills, rather, with human ones.
I'm not familiar with your boss, but it's possible that they just found a market need, and dedicated themselves to solving it, even with mediocre skills, but with the right human skillset (creative ideas, understanding of the market, orientation to get things done, effectively communicating, and a myriad of other things).
There are certain fields where technical accomplishments is the main drive (Doom ;)), but in such cases, the answer whether that's possible or not is very obvious.
I stress: it may seem paradoxical, but a strictly technical vision can be counterproductive even in a technical field.
by smilindave26 on 10/7/22, 3:31 PM
How much of what you currently know can you relate and apply to becoming an expert in your new career? There might be more than you expect.
As far as being more efficient, learning from someone who has the experience you seek can make a huge difference. I'm a mainly self-taught guitar player, and I spend a lot of time identifying problems with my technique and inventing little practice routines to work on correcting them. I enjoy this process, but I know I'd save a lot of time if I worked more with people who could easily identify issues with my playing and already know best practice routines to correct 'em.
by artificialLimbs on 10/7/22, 1:53 PM
Use time management practices for max effect. I'm currently listening to Cal Newports' "Deep Questions" podcast, and even the first few eps (go back and listen from the start) have been tremendously helpful.
by memling on 10/7/22, 3:45 PM
All things being equal, make a change. I did this more or less accidentally (applied for programming, got turned into a systems engineer) and it was terrific. Feeling stupid is awful, but it's pretty good for you in the end.
[1] https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/anders-ericsson/1
by ryandvm on 10/7/22, 1:48 PM
I'm in my 40s also and one of the things I've become certain about over the years is actual competency is depressingly low on the list of traits you need to have a successful career. Far more important are traits like confidence, charisma, the ability to bullshit (I hate this), and soft skills.
Don't sweat the 10,000 hours. It's probably not true and you don't need to be an expert anyway. I'd say if you really want to switch careers, go for it. Worst case scenario is it doesn't work out and you can come back to your current field. That's a far better outcome than spending the remainder of your life wondering if you could have done it.
by SevenNation on 10/7/22, 6:04 PM
Well, it's not quite that simple of course. But the point stands. You can do a lot of good well before that 10,000 hour mark. Think about dedicating just 1 hour to something. How much more will you know about it than your peers?
I think it's a mistake to divide the world into pre-10,000 hours and post-10,000 hours. Mastery does take time. But you can do a lot for yourself by first becoming more knowledgeable and then becoming more practiced at something. You don't need to be a master before your life improves noticeably.
> Any advice?
What were you put on this planet to do? If you've already done it, then great. No need to change course. If not and it doesn't sit right, why wouldn't you change course? Time is always "running out" and it won't be any better at 53.
by jacek on 10/7/22, 12:41 PM
2. You don't need to master anything to switch careers. You just need to be useful and productive. Many employers will value your experience, work ethic, knowledge and will trust you to learn on the go.
by throwaway576652 on 10/7/22, 2:33 PM
However, to change a career, you need much less.
To get a very junior tech/programming job I would say it's something like 500-1000 hours.
That's about the same as most coding bootcamps. And a lot of people who went through a coding bootcamp were able to get a job in tech.
by ludwigvan on 10/7/22, 1:52 PM
As to the rule, a few observations:
- you don't need to become an expert to be in a certain career. - Pareto rule applies. You can learn 80% of the job in 20% of the time. After that, it is diminishing returns, in which case you can be average and have a career.
by chiefalchemist on 10/7/22, 11:07 AM
Also, when you read the small print, it does not guarantee success. It simply say that *if* you aim to achieve mastery - to be towards to the top of your given field - then expect to put in *at least* 10,000 hrs.
It's a generalization and will vary from individual to individual and skill to skill.
As a side note, I recently started reading "The Are of Possibility" by Zander and Zander. If your considering a career / life pivot then this book might be for you.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-art-of-possibility-transfo...
by alexfromapex on 10/7/22, 1:13 PM
by samatman on 10/7/22, 3:24 PM
It's woefully insufficient for such success, one also needs 'talent', which is a fuzzy but real measure of the inherent ability one has.
So it's probably too late for golf and concert piano, these might make great hobbies, but you won't be playing the Masters or Carnegie Hall. Very likely, it wouldn't have mattered when you started, or how hard you worked, for those goals. Maybe you've got what it takes, but most people don't, so it's accordingly unlikely.
That leaves almost everything else. If you're in good health, have the hustle and drive, why not? 43 is about median for successful new business founders, YN demographics notwithstanding.
by matwood on 10/7/22, 11:08 AM
Second, I know many people who switched careers. You have plenty of time at nearly any age if you are willing to be humble and learn. I have found that it's not that older people can't learn, it's often they are unwilling. At someone who just turned 45, I make it a point to practice humble learning daily.
Finally, think about what you can uniquely bring over from your old career to your new career. People skills transfer very well, but also industry knowledge and general business.
by haspok on 10/7/22, 2:46 PM
1. To quote one of my favourite coaches: "Practice doesn't make you perfect. _Perfect practice_ makes you perfect."
2. It can save you enormous amounts of time if you find the right teacher and teaching resources (eg. books, courses, etc.). But how do you know which ones are the right ones - for you?
Also, note that you can certainly reach a fairly high level in almost anything you want, but it is much harder to improve on that. Unless you have talent or you started learning the thing in your childhood, there is definitely a glass ceiling, and it may be lower than you think. But then again it may as well be higher, and you don't know which until you try it. But then, of course, it is too late :)
by guilhas on 10/7/22, 10:28 AM
by jonahbenton on 10/7/22, 10:43 AM
Though his 10k hours for mastery of skillset thesis has been disproven- in the context that there does seem to be "talent" that cannot be "practiced"- I believe it myself and have observed substantial learning at older ages. However, for yourself I would question whether learning the skills is really what is required or are expectations and social components the more difficult obstacle to overcome.
Good luck.
by justinzollars on 10/7/22, 3:10 PM
You can do anything you want. I switched at 27, with 5 years experience teaching at college and a masters degree in Biology/Chemistry. I jumped into computers. If I get sick of computers I'll do something else.
by lamontcg on 10/7/22, 9:24 PM
I need to make another jump now when I'm 50. You should be fine when you're 43. Just try to keep a lid on the imposter syndrome for a few years. Try not to be inflexible as well. And change up little things that you do from time to time. Try programming in an IDE if you've never done it. Try a new programming language. Change the shell you use. Whatever. Don't necessarily hop on the latest greatest trends on HN headlines since that can be exhausting, but there's lots of well worn technologies out there to stretch yourself with.
by throwaway0asd on 10/7/22, 12:46 PM
If I had the freedom to start over right now (also 43) I would get into experimental horticulture. I think there are a lot of missed opportunities to improve macronutrient quality and water resource management with lower pesticide requirements for commercial agricultural in developing economies that wealthier economies frequently ignore.
by tumetab1 on 10/7/22, 10:54 AM
A) What does being a master really means to me? Others respect? Peer recognition? Work autonomy? B) Am I willing to change careers knowing I will never be a master in it? C) Does the trade-off of changing from a career that I master to a career that I will never master worth it?
In your question there's already an implied NO, do not change, because being a master seems important to you.
Regarding mastery, it's always difficult to achieve it, starting at 20 years old or starting at 50 years old. Most people don't achieve it, they just feel comfortable after a while.
by CyanLite2 on 10/7/22, 1:39 PM
In other words, just do it. Don't look back. You only have so many years of your life left. Make it worth it.
by jokethrowaway on 10/7/22, 9:30 PM
Let's talk examples: The reason tons of people from other professions can become devs and be competitive in a couple of years is because: A. A huge chunk of lifelong professional developers are terrible B. Even well paying jobs don't require you to do that much, it's the same crap over and over
by Unbeliever69 on 10/7/22, 2:22 PM
When I attended college at 43 I was the top student in all my CS classes. Same, when I attended an immersive 3-month bootcamp 5 years later. Now, nearly 10 years later I am an owner in a startup.
I will admit that I had some advantages. First, I was a life-long programmer hobbyist. Mainly a dabbler but I made stuff, mostly games. Second, as a Ux designer, I worked in the industry and side-by-side with developers so I knew my way around the shop. And last, I've been a learner my entire life so getting in the groove to return to school was easy.
Good luck.
by ElijahLynn on 10/7/22, 3:57 PM
It contests the generalized statement from Malcom Gladwell's writings and then the book makes sure to say that it it needs to be 10K of deliberate AND perfect practice (not just practicing incorrectly for 10k hours).
This book will prove that you can learn anything at any age, and it doesn't need to be 10K hours to learn a shit ton.
This is the first book I have my software student mentees read when they start. Why? Because it does one thing. Gives them hope.
by flashgordon on 10/7/22, 4:27 PM
By the way 10k hours is consistently spending 3 hours a day for 10 years. So you could spend the next 10 years practising and then switch - but that kind of all-or-nothing means you could have missed the boat for what it is you are trying to get mastery on.
by jaffee on 10/7/22, 12:53 PM
by TruffleLabs on 10/7/22, 3:33 PM
The “10,000-hour rule” was debunked again. That’s a relief.
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/8/23/20828597/th...
"Which is why I find these debunkings of the 10,000-hour rule to be a complete relief. Because implied in the rule (at least, to me) is a deeply self-deprecating message: that if we fail to achieve greatness, it’s our own damn fault. And what screw-up would forgo greatness?"
by IvanaDora on 10/7/22, 10:28 AM
by twawaaay on 10/7/22, 5:32 PM
If you spent a lot of time in one job there is good chance a lot of your skills are transferrable to the new one.
When I decided to change jobs I figured out I want to make good use of the skills I already had, supplement them with some new skills and create a niche for myself that is overlooked/unpopular because it requires skills that you can't normally find on the market when looking at people who spent their entire life doing just one thing.
Make the fact you are changing jobs your advantage, not your disadvantage.
by labrador on 10/7/22, 8:58 PM
by ourmandave on 10/7/22, 11:16 AM
Summary: you need 4 things to become an expert.
From comment with timestamps:
5:00 Repeated attempts with feedback. 6:47 Valid environment. 11:23 Timely feedback. 13:50 Don't get to comfortable.
Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eW6Eagr9XA
Comment link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eW6Eagr9XA&lc=UgwrcQiQhReOd...
by TrevorJ on 10/7/22, 6:00 PM
And even if not, it's probably worth a shot anyway if you are interested in it.
by spoonjim on 10/7/22, 2:44 PM
by jjslocum3 on 10/7/22, 6:34 PM
It's been a while since I read it, but my takeaway was that the depth of familiarity brought about by 10k hours of practice in an area was just one factor of many that contributed to success. You need all those other factors in addition to the 10k hours.
I think it's just humans with our predictable penchant for distilling accurate nuance down to adjacent-but-inaccurate bullet points that created the idea that 10k hours is all it takes.
by BergTheBold on 10/7/22, 11:07 AM
by fm2606 on 10/7/22, 9:07 PM
It took me a relatively long time (6 to 9 months) to land this new job. I'm pretty sure my skills weren't where they needed to be as a software developer played more of a part than my age for other companies to not hire me. I had some great interviews but it all worked out. Really happy with the new company.
by raintrees on 10/7/22, 5:03 PM
That has been my experience. Consider giving it a go!
Edit: I wish to add the paraphrased concept: Don't let perfectionism be the enemy of done/accomplished... Another lesson I am working on :)
by bathyspheric on 10/7/22, 2:02 PM
10k hours is not a guaranteed unless it’s directed practice. 2k and some flexible thinking can get you a long way towards interesting and new experiences.
by amid11 on 10/12/22, 11:43 AM
by j1mmo on 10/7/22, 2:04 PM
by shtopointo on 10/7/22, 5:33 PM
Mastery will come if you have a passion for the subject, and probably will not come otherwise. No amount of perseverance will make you interested in something you are not interested in.
by geijoenr on 10/7/22, 1:54 PM
You have to be ready to take an income cut though, at least at first. Other than that, I don't think you should be afraid.
That 10k hour rule is stupid. Talent is what makes the difference, either you have it or not. Regardless, it has nothing to do with switching jobs, most people moderately suck at what they do and make living and live happy lifes.
by standardUser on 10/7/22, 4:31 PM
Even if you did spent the (completely mythical, made up) 10,000 hours, you'd likely be wasting a lot of time if most of those hours aren't in the actual profession, as opposed to some detached academic hobby.
by dijonman2 on 10/7/22, 10:19 AM
by ftyhbhyjnjk on 10/7/22, 10:16 AM
by kamaal on 10/8/22, 6:30 AM
Most things aren't exactly walking on a rope between skyscrapers level risky that you need absolute practice and perfection. You get lots of room to make mistakes and learn, and beyond all this doing things that matter is a matter of priority not practice.
Whatever it is, get started now.
by tomcam on 10/10/22, 12:34 AM
I taught myself enough programming to get into Microsoft and enough business to retire from what I earned myself.
by jmchuster on 10/7/22, 5:51 PM
by MilStdJunkie on 10/7/22, 2:46 PM
I don't think Gladwell is intentionally a charlatan, but he's astonishingly sentimental given his choice of subjects, and notably, was never a practicing scientist.
At worst he's a fluffy-haired priest to the rentier class, paid to soothe the intellects of Manhattan financialist pirates in the same way William Sumner once stroked the egos of Carnegies and Rockefellers.
by sam1r on 10/7/22, 1:08 PM
Time spent feels much less stressful than “I’ve practiced heavily regularly”.
Since humans inevitably improve with repetitions or practice, it’s less scary (for me or imo) to just “put in time” versus “practice” to get possibly better or intimidated by what’s “enough expertise”
by astroalex on 10/7/22, 3:41 PM
Taking the time to go to law school was definitely a risk and a cost. It definitely was not easy for her. But it's absolutely possible, probably more so than most people believe for themselves.
by codingdave on 10/7/22, 12:56 PM
by TrapLord_Rhodo on 10/7/22, 7:04 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized...
by Zensynthium on 10/7/22, 3:04 PM
by aristofun on 10/7/22, 3:44 PM
If you truly want to achieve some goal — you'd rather find and absorb any examples of other people achieving similar goals, and filter out everything else.
by sitkack on 10/7/22, 10:28 AM
It doesn't take 10k hours to master something. Nor do you need to master something to have it be your career.
Being an outside to a new thing at your age can bring insights that others can't bring. Use your head, but there are lots of ways you can bring this to your advantage. It is the folks that cross domains that bring the gains.
by bryanrasmussen on 10/7/22, 7:30 PM
Is everyone who has a rewarding career in an in-demand field actually a 'master' of that field? Seems unlikely.
by duxup on 10/7/22, 1:46 PM
Been working for years, making good money, very happy with the decision.
by 0xbadcafebee on 10/7/22, 2:05 PM
Assuming you will live to 86, you still have half your life ahead of you. But the longer you wait, the less time you have.
Just do it. You will regret not trying.
by mriet on 10/7/22, 4:25 PM
I have been hired for jobs even though I said "I do not have any experience doing this."
If you're switching, switch to something that there's enough demand for that the chance you need a safety net is shall.
by Arete314159 on 10/7/22, 11:56 PM
While she's a very difficult person, I do admire this trait and willingness to reinvent herself, and I think I've been more fearless in some ways because of it.
by iancmceachern on 10/7/22, 5:24 PM
by ryanthedev on 10/7/22, 11:11 PM
The most difficult task will be getting your foot in the door. After that, you’re golden.
by djcjr on 10/7/22, 2:56 PM
Programming language matters. You can't really achieve expertise with some in any amount of time. Choose a simple language at first. Also, I recommend learning more languages than just one. It gets easier the more you know.
by cbsks on 10/7/22, 1:31 PM
by mceachen on 10/7/22, 4:02 PM
His conclusions, unfortunately, range from arguable to wholly indefensible conjectures.
Many have disputed the 10k hour rule. “Practice makes permanent” is a thing.
If you’re really excited to learn something new, and have a modicum of aptitude, and have a mentor, go for it.
Act to minimize future regret.
by cliftonk on 10/7/22, 10:42 AM
by Grustaf on 10/7/22, 4:54 PM
If you want to work as a programmer, management consultant, business developer or similar that is. Becoming first violin does take tens of thousands of hours.
by innocentoldguy on 10/7/22, 5:30 PM
1. Figure out what I really wanted to do. 2. Build a plan to make that transition. 3. Test each phase of my plan and make adjustments along the way.
Since then, I've worked at two Big Tech companies doing what I enjoy doing.
by JamesAdir on 10/7/22, 4:14 PM
by tyingq on 10/7/22, 10:53 AM
by philipswood on 10/7/22, 2:07 PM
https://www.codingvc.com/p/the-100-hour-rule
A lot of professionals are not in the 10,000h range and a few 100h is more achievable.
by seemaze on 10/7/22, 5:38 PM
by thenerdhead on 10/7/22, 3:11 PM
Time is only a factor for retirement. Your career will mostly be forgotten when you retire anyway.
by Yizahi on 10/7/22, 12:52 PM
by zxcvbn4038 on 10/7/22, 3:27 PM
by firecall on 10/8/22, 8:47 AM
You don’t need other people to validate your choices or your define your level of expertise or success.
by spking on 10/7/22, 4:44 PM
by HarHarVeryFunny on 10/7/22, 2:33 PM
by JDoubleA on 10/7/22, 10:41 AM
by mmcgaha on 10/7/22, 12:54 PM
by sebastianconcpt on 10/7/22, 1:38 PM
by theboywho on 10/7/22, 6:13 PM
Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World by David Epstein
by sidcool on 10/7/22, 2:02 PM
by username4567 on 10/7/22, 2:48 PM
by RHSman2 on 10/7/22, 10:41 AM
by huimang on 10/7/22, 4:17 PM
You can always change things up. Just do it.
by Bombthecat on 10/7/22, 2:22 PM
She is 42.. she doesn't know a single windows command line command
So yeah, you definitely can :)
by wengo314 on 10/7/22, 11:12 AM
you can get very proficient quickly if you apply insights to your performance to identify your shortcomings and address those.
and similarly you can spend 30k+ hours learning something and be merely mediocre.
by iansowinski on 10/7/22, 4:09 PM
by dotcoma on 10/8/22, 9:45 PM
by pengo on 10/7/22, 7:29 PM
by micromacrofoot on 10/7/22, 2:23 PM
by engineer_22 on 10/7/22, 3:21 PM
by iovrthoughtthis on 10/7/22, 11:08 AM
you cannot predict the future and success is dependent at least as much on "luck" as it is on expertise
by robot on 10/7/22, 2:53 PM
by rollschild on 10/7/22, 3:36 PM
by dev_0 on 10/8/22, 1:47 AM
by belmarca on 10/7/22, 1:10 PM
by brhsagain on 10/7/22, 4:46 PM
by tacosbane on 10/7/22, 11:45 AM
by Felger on 10/7/22, 12:53 PM