by iworkforthem on 12/2/11, 12:43 PM with 188 comments
by jasonkester on 12/2/11, 2:17 PM
The thing is, if you use the term "Startup" here to describe anything other than a zero-profit 80hr/week scramble for VC funding and eventual acquisition, you're going to get people popping up and claiming that what you're doing is not startuppy enough to count. So for the benefit of that crowd, you might want to rephrase your question in terms of building a product that brings in enough revenue to quit your job.
If that's what you want to build, then yes. It's absolutely possible, and there are dozens of people here who have done so.
by a5seo on 12/2/11, 3:39 PM
It was profitable within 6 months off organic traffic and lead gen. Approximate revenue by year: $10k, 40k, 70k, 100k, 150k, 250k, 500k, 750k, 1.5M, 2.5M.
Built entirely while working for another startup (unrelated), first 3 years I was in graduate school, year 4 I was a product manager for another startup. Year 5 I finally took the leap to run it full-time.
I was the sole owner, never had more than 7 employees, and I sold it for a bit over $10M (ttm revenue was around $700k at the time).
Leading up to launch, I typically worked 10-7 at my day job, then wrote my code from 8p-1a M-F (20 hrs) and all day on the weekends (20 hrs), so 40 hrs per week. During school, my wife handled the sales part-time (16 hrs/wk), and I probably spent 8 hrs a week on it fixing bugs, implementing ad deals etc. In Year 4, I spent ~16 hrs a week on it outside of my day job (misc. tech upkeep, link building, PR, etc.).
It's definitely doable, but your SO needs to be on-board because you'll be taking the time away from them. Or do it before you have a SO to worry about.
by whirlycott1 on 12/2/11, 1:57 PM
From January, 2005 through May, 2006, I worked on StyleFeeder on the side - while I had a pretty demanding day job, mind you - as I built up the basic business... until I had invested so much time and effort into it that I was maxed out and needed to find a way to work on it full time with the help of others.
I don't see any plausible way that I could have made it into anything significant while at the same time working a day job. I think some people can do it with some businesses, but I think it would have been impossible in my case.
But the bootstrapping phase, yes, I think you can do that while working a day job. That's very common.
More details here:
http://www.whirlycott.com/phil/2011/08/05/stylefeeder-histor...
by bradleyland on 12/2/11, 2:30 PM
* Position yourself for minimum cash outflow. Minimizing your cash needs means you can take bigger risks. I found a decent 500 sq ft apartment and drove a cheap car. Without a family, all my other expenses were dirt cheap.
* Save up a three month buffer and strike out on your own gig, but not your start-up yet. I chose consulting because the income potential is so high and it provided a great networking opportunity. I doubled my annual income (from my old salary) within a year, but far more importantly, I was able to accomplish a few transitional steps in getting my start-up going:
- I built a relationship with a great developer by feeding him work from consulting clients.
- I built relationships with other business owners and took a lot of time to understand their business.
- Ultimately, I met the person who would connect me with the greatest team I've ever worked with.
By the time I found the right team and opportunity, I had a year's worth of expenses saved up, and a small amount of money to contribute to the operational expenses of the company. Coming to the table with cash in-hand gained me a lot of respect from other team members. Because everyone came to the table with their own income streams, we were able to bootstrap and now, 100% of our equity is founder owned. That's a pretty exciting reality for us.
by fotoblur on 12/2/11, 4:20 PM
When I look at my day job I only ever get 4 hrs of real work done anyway...with wasted time for meetings, bureaucracy, and being blocked by others. So even though I'm at work for 8+ hours, on my free time, I'm able to work on a similar sized project putting in less hours because there is usually no waste in that time. I've also got 2 kids and train 4 times a week at the gym or jiu jitsu. It can be done!
After reading a few more comments I want to add something. Work hard at your day job, do your best work, and make them dependent on you. Here is why...if you ever come in late, or leave early because there is a crisis on you side project your employer usually won't care. Your the superstar so that's expected. However, you've got to keep your day job really, really happy to walk this fine line between pursuing your own interests and meeting the needs of your day job. Plus when you have a successful side project (that maybe can't support you just yet) and you're out job hunting people will see you as a golden ticket, a diamond in the rough. Usually when I interview people I often ask what they're working on on the side. That indicates to me this person has drive and determination.
by paraschopra on 12/2/11, 6:39 PM
To be honest, I think the time constraints posed by day job (you got only 2-3 hours of working on your startup) really made you focus on important stuff (such as working on user feedback and iterating). Plus, the comfort of having a salary provided let you invest in site design, marketing, AdWords, etc. without having you unnecessarily worry about "funding" or borrowing from parents/friends.
by ry0ohki on 12/2/11, 2:12 PM
by Jun8 on 12/2/11, 3:54 PM
So, my more specific question is: Has anybody done this while picking up your kid from daycare at 5pm, having family business until 8:30pm and working at a day job. Id this impossible?
I think the viable alternatives in this case are trying to earn money from blogs and mobile apps.
by forcer on 12/2/11, 2:12 PM
I think its the best way to start a company because you are only risking sweat-equity. The danger is that your day job holds you from growing your startup more.
by dazzla on 12/2/11, 3:45 PM
This week I took a trip to the ER in an ambulance because I had a seizure at my new day job after one too many late nights working on the side project.
Be careful and know your limits better than I do.
by DougN7 on 12/2/11, 2:20 PM
by nathanbarry on 12/2/11, 2:05 PM
by nischalshetty on 12/2/11, 3:45 PM
I quit my job around 9 months ago. Finding too much of time on hand I subsequently started work on a new app, got my friend to join me and we got into Start-up Chile. It's been a great journey but I'm so glad that I did not quit the moment we were profitable. It has taught me the most important thing you need to learn while starting up, being efficient.
I always suggest everyone who has a product to not quit until it is virtually impossible to keep up with a day job. You then become a time management champ and know how to do more with less :)
by swalberg on 12/2/11, 2:08 PM
I wasn't raking in money but I had customers and my revenues exceeded my small expenses.
Over the summer I sold the company and went to work for the acquiring company. In retrospect, this was probably the best move for me (I had considered taking investment to move to it full time.)
Like one of the answers above, I don't think I could have grown the business significantly without spending more time on it, and for me (day job, 3 young kids) this was the only way I could have done it.
by jv22222 on 12/2/11, 2:46 PM
by lsc on 12/2/11, 9:25 PM
Having a well-paying dayjob changes things. You will want to hire your first employee long before you would if you were working full-time at the startup. You will want to spend money rather than do work more often than you would otherwise. Assuming you have a high paying dayjob and you are willing to live cheap, your runway is now measured only in terms of your motivation.
Note, you will not be performing 100% at the dayjob. I got asked to choose between the dayjob and my business only once, though, and that was near the beginning, before I really learned to compartmentalize, and when I was most focused on my business.
My style of work is and always has been very burst-y, which works out well. When I wasn't that focused on the business, I'd get a regular dayjob and top off my COBRA and rent money. When I was focused on the business, I'd either focus on the business completely or work contract gigs for extra money. It's interesting; if you contract through a body shop for non-expert work? (e.g. if they rent you out as a normal programmer/sysadmin?) it pays only slightly better than doing the same job as a direct employee (sometimes a little worse if the benefits for the direct employee are good) but the expectations for your work are much lower. I mean, think about it; if they are paying about the same for a contract as for a full-time with benefits job, do you think they are going to get good people? The lowered expectations along with the ability to spend pre-tax dollars on company equipment made that a pretty good deal for me.
Especially during the money-losing phase (and this /will/ be longer than it would have been if you were full time.) the taxes are complex and can make a huge difference. get a good accountant, and listen to him or her. Small bullshit changes can make the difference between spending pre tax money buying servers and spending post-tax money on those servers.
by acangiano on 12/2/11, 3:35 PM
by benedwards on 12/2/11, 3:00 PM
by digitalengineer on 12/2/11, 2:01 PM
Advertising agency's (my day job) can rent them for a fixed price. Royalties included.
(I'm not spamming. You're not my targets and only Dutch people can read it anyway). But have a look at the several hundred people that signed up if you're interested: http://royaltyfreemodels.nl/zoeken/page:11
(It's run on CakePHP for the interested).
by thenduks on 12/2/11, 9:28 PM
About a year later I brought it to the team and we decided to switch to it. A few months of light iteration and polish after that and we launched it as it's own product (https://bugrocket.com) for $20/month.
Pretty happy with how it's going, too. It hasn't really interfered with the 'day job' at all besides the occasional email to answer or tweet to reply to. We have really flexible hours here so I shift my day around sometimes to accomodate both projects. Totally do-able.
edit: Seems there is some interest in the 'family situation' of these success stories. I'm married (with kittens, no kids) and it generally hasn't been too difficult to keep a balance. It's helped me a lot having some people working with me (especially on non-technical bits), and not just alone as a single founder. It's hard to say how much time I actually put in because it's kind of a 'here and there' whenever there's the opportunity kind of thing. I'd probably estimate 3-5 hours during the week and then either a lot (8+ hours) or nothing on the weekends, depending on else is happening.
by nhangen on 12/4/11, 2:51 PM
I was doing client work, and to be frank, got tired of working from home and dealing with low-grade clients all day. So instead of worrying about finding better clients, I took a day job to support myself and my family (wife and kids) while I worked on side projects with my co-founder.
To date, we've built a fun iOS game, Santa Strike, a crowdfunding plugin for WordPress, IgnitionDeck, and a few yet to be launched iOS apps, among other simple software utilities like Iconswitch.me and GameDesignTemplate.com
I drive to and from work an hour a day, which kills me, but we're very close to being profitable enough so I can quit my day job.
We're not zillionaires yet, but I do think it's possible to do what you're asking. However, it's very very difficult, especially when you have a spouse and/or kids.
I work on my stuff from 7-8 am, drive to work, try to fend off the thought of being an unproductive employee so I don't get fired (I'm actually the only developer they have, and I'm in a very good position because my predecessors set the bar so very low), but do spend some time at work handling side-project stuff, get home at 6:30, hang out, work more, go to bed, rinse, repeat.
My wife is stressed because my mind is elsewhere, but she understands. We spend time on the weekends going out and doing family stuff, but not as much as we'd like.
When we ship new versions of software, I field customer inquiries and complaints on the go, which isn't ideal, but is what it is.
In other words, I have very little personal time, it's very stressful for the entire family, and it's a lot of hard work over a long period of time. It's not for the faint of heart.
by spodek on 12/2/11, 4:02 PM
I defended my thesis around that time too.
I consider conserving cash fundamental. The stipend for a PhD candidate was under $30k/year for living in Manhattan. I wasn't in subsidized housing and had no savings or other source of income.
by dbrannan on 12/2/11, 9:28 PM
Currently we use profits to pay anyone willing to work on the code and add features. It is self-sustaining, at least.
See: http://www.examprofessor.com
Comments, ideas, suggestions are welcome.
by tatonkathomas on 12/2/11, 5:15 PM
by mendicant on 12/2/11, 4:13 PM
So after a year of weekends and evenings, my partner started to pound the pavement. We were profitable in our very first year after launch, and continue to be. Our biggest expense is advertising, which is very targeted. I think about 80-85% of our pre-tax revenue ends up being profit, which is great.
I still have my day job, and for the 30 hours/week between us that we still put in, we've been _very_ successful.
by raju on 12/2/11, 1:57 PM
by lmauri on 12/2/11, 2:33 PM
I'm the backend and frontend developer(rest-full api needed for our iphone app), the other two are the creative guys, and I've to admit that it has been hard to think, design, and do a product in a spare time(especially if you have a wife and a child).
And there are other aspects of the launching such as the site, the company to found and many things that require a lot of time.
I hope the app and the business I want to build around succeded so I will quit my current profitable job.
by tcarnell on 12/2/11, 5:08 PM
It brings in a small amount of money each month and it pretty much requires no maintenance. However I would not say that it is profitable (yet), there is a fair way to go before it brings in enough money to have justified the time.
I would spend more time implementing new features if I thought it would result in a significant increase in paying users.
...not sure what to do with it now really!?!? Suggestions welcome!!!
by dylangs1030 on 12/2/11, 4:20 PM
If your startup requires consistently high turnover for new features, then it's going to occupy easily 40 hours per week on just that project.
However, if what you build doesn't need to be updated for months at a time (like some mobile apps or other software) you can probably get away with doing this. An entire company? I don't think so. A particular type of website, or app? Sure, if all you're doing consistently is maintenance.
by kin on 12/2/11, 8:12 PM
Apparently I'm the only thing in the way. Thanks for the inspiration everyone! You guys are all amazing.
by landonhowell on 12/2/11, 3:15 PM
I put every spare moment I had into it, skipping lunches and dinners and sleep (though I never skipped church) all for the sake of keeping it lean before keeping it lean was cool.
5 years later I sold it for a paltry sum, mainly because I didn't add enough people fast enough.
by listrophy on 12/2/11, 4:43 PM
After 2.5 months of 80 hour weeks, we quit our day jobs and went full time with the consulting business: Bendyworks. Now, almost 3 years into the biz, we're at 10 people and having a freaking blast.
by iguanayou on 12/2/11, 4:25 PM
by nopal on 12/2/11, 7:51 PM
The feeling when a new customer from across the country signs up is a pretty good one!
by cullenking on 12/2/11, 5:33 PM
by brackin on 12/2/11, 2:16 PM
by iamandrus on 12/2/11, 2:31 PM
by stevoski on 12/2/11, 3:39 PM
by iconfinder on 12/2/11, 3:18 PM
I still do some work next to the startup, but it is basically paying for servers etc. plus a salary for me.
by vaksel on 12/2/11, 1:54 PM
Especially since coding is a tiny iota of actually doing one, most of it boils down to marketing anyways
by amdev on 12/2/11, 2:10 PM
by _ud4a on 12/2/11, 5:35 PM
by hndl on 12/2/11, 3:42 PM
by veyron on 12/2/11, 2:23 PM
by svisstack on 12/2/11, 2:37 PM
by kellysutton on 12/2/11, 4:09 PM
by guscost on 12/2/11, 7:00 PM
by mitko on 12/2/11, 8:57 PM
by bluesmoon on 12/2/11, 2:09 PM
by pitdesi on 12/2/11, 2:43 PM
More incredibly to me is FeeFighters (http://feefighters.com) CEO Sean was
1) Raising a VC round
2) Having his first kid
and 3) Working full-time at BCG
All at the same time (May 2010) Any one of those are enough to make you go crazy, but he managed all 3. (note: FeeFighters is not profitable)
He also previously started http://tss-radio.com and bootstrapped it to a spot on the inc 500 list, all on the side while working at a VC firm (Longworth) and then while at BCG (management consulting).
by davidhansen on 12/2/11, 2:28 PM
My current company started out as a side project. I decided to make it a fulltime project after about three years. We are quite profitable.
Today, we operate a few "premium" domain name businesses, but we started with a rather obscure one, and did well enough to purchase more properties from cash flow.
by paulhauggis on 12/2/11, 2:16 PM
Rather than working 8-10 hours on your startup and having some free time. You work 8 hours and spend all of your free time on your startup.
I prefer getting some capital saved and then quitting your day job.
by daliusd on 12/2/11, 2:10 PM
I am example of person who has not managed to do that in 3 years but I have learned a lot and my trial contributed to my well-being in many positive ways. Some of those are like salary growing faster than planned and some are small but pleasant things like Nokia N950.
by Maro on 12/2/11, 1:40 PM
"Startup" usually means a company that fulfills a few of the below:
- something the founders do full-time
- less than 3 years old
- in a bootstrap phase or burning VC money
- in search of a business model (not yet profitable)
- has the potential to grow