from Hacker News

The internet is already over

by imichael on 9/20/22, 3:53 AM with 69 comments

  • by keiferski on 9/20/22, 9:02 AM

    The author makes a lot of witty, erudite References – a method that has annoyingly become popular and is often mistaken as "good writing" – but I think he has missed a simple and obvious truth: culture is determined by fashion. Not fashion as in clothing, but fashion as in ideas and things that are trendy for a time then fade away, replaced by the next thing. The next thing is often an indirect reaction to the previous thing. Sometimes it's the exact opposite.

    Culture has been very online for the last decade and extremely online for the last 3 years. We are just witnessing a cultural shift away from this and toward ideas like real, physical, human, touch, outside, present, etc. being trendy. The Internet isn't "over", it's just adapting to a new cultural fashion. The technological immaturity of stuff like VR is also a factor.

    By 2040, we'll all be extremely online again.

  • by v4dok on 9/20/22, 8:05 AM

    Definitely an entertaining read, so in that matter it "won" its place here. Now in regards to the actual content I am torn.

    On one hand you could say he is bored, bitter, "old" dude who is tired from keeping up with the advancements and declares the end of progress.

    On the other hand, you could argue that there is some genuine insight there. Internet is not an internal part of being a human. I even subscribe to the idea that it many ways it goes against being a human (social and physical detachment, desensitized emotions). And in the end of the day, no matter what is said and done on the internet, our existence is primarily physical.

    Maybe the internet will not die, but maybe there is a regression to the mean. It feels like the excitement of the "digital self" is past its peak and people are slowly re-discovering that offline life is "cool again". Or if not "cool" a necessary plane to exist in order to effect changes. I think the Floyd example was on point; change happens on the street, not online. The stakes are simply not high enough there.

  • by marcus_holmes on 9/20/22, 11:14 AM

    > There is simply nothing there online.

    This isn't true. There is lots of fascinating stuff out there (including this article, which is well-written and enjoyable).

    The problem is that it's hard to find, because it's covered over with a layer of SEO-optimised crap churned out by an entire industry of professionals who spend all day, every day, trying to smother anything good or interesting online with their bland, outsourced, uninteresting, joyless, "content". I don't think that's what they actually want to achieve, but that's the net effect, and they know it, so it might as well be.

  • by aeonque on 9/20/22, 10:44 AM

    Only a slave mentality of a Christian in a fantasy world of believe or burn could turn a fundamental law of the universe into a depressing and horror of negative.

    All things arise and pass away. This is truth.

    If you believe it to be terrible then you are blind to half your life.

    Once a man, twice a child. This is not sad, it is nature. The end gives VALUE to what existed.

    The author criticizes the downfall of the techno-optimist, pretending to be one amidst his sad broken romance of limited perception and judgement of the state of world.

    The internet is a tool that humans created. It’s going to stick around just like fire did for us, which is now a convenient plastic container in your pocket btw. Because it isn’t bad or good (believe or burn - goodness, learn to think and stop feeling), it just is.

    There is nothing wrong with the world. It is as it always has been and it always will be., arising and passing away. The only problem is that your eyes are closed.

    Rather than contemplate the horror of the internet, why not contemplate what it could become next? How do we turn the camp fire into a lighter? Wouldn’t that be interesting?

  • by richardatlarge on 9/20/22, 10:01 AM

    Instead of approaching the author as right or wrong, approach the article in terms of how it might be useful for thinking about the future of the internet.

    Many even here on HN frame things in a divisive way.

    The article asks us to imagine the future. That is an interesting place to begin…

  • by helf on 9/20/22, 11:05 AM

    Dear god. That was like trying to read a word salad stream of consciousness from a high grad student.
  • by subjectsigma on 9/20/22, 9:09 AM

    Kind of a silly article but I agree with the premise. Social media is dying, but I'm not sure the argument is as strong for anything else.

    People are withdrawing from public Internet forums like Twitter. Twitter is so obscenely devoid of value that your average person has caught on and stays away.

    But think about this - if you could plot the number of hours I spent on video chat (Zoom, Discord, Snapchat, Facetime, WebEx, etc.) over the years, starting circa 2018, it would be a near linear increase. Since there are only 24 hours in a day it has to hit a limit eventually, but when? All that time is the "private" Internet, 1-to-1 or very small groups. Meanwhile I'm using Instagram primarily for DMs and ignoring most of the main features of the app.

  • by zimpenfish on 9/20/22, 11:52 AM

    > In 1997, Ken Olson declared that ‘there is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home.’

    a) Ken Olsen, b) 1977.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Olsen

  • by sweetbitter on 9/20/22, 11:02 AM

    Sup, one of those techno-optimists you mentioned here who uses the 'net as if it's still 2007. I must ask,

    U wot m8?

  • by raydiatian on 9/20/22, 8:08 AM

    HN articles about doomsday are utterly moronic 9/10. I just glanced and saw an obnoxiously engineered attempt to be ominous. It’s not even the right Goya painting on the header. Will not read
  • by motohagiography on 9/20/22, 11:55 AM

    > $150 billion, mostly from the sovereign wealth funds of Saudi Arabia and the UAE, which it’s poured into Uber and DoorDash and WeWork and Klarna and Slack. It provides the money that effectively subsidises your autistic digital life.

    While I wasn't interested in following the writer down his garden path, this stood out and made me wonder whether over a large enough portfolio, later stage investments that increase the velocity of money can be recouped by investing in the emergent earlier stages of the growth they create. It's a bit of an inflationary and trickle-bubble argument, but from a tech venture perspective, even if Uber and WeWork were subsidized, they changed how a generation moved and worked and created knock on growth.

    Softbank's moneybomb investments created a lot of wealth for people who worked for them, but also launched hundreds if not thousands of more companies. The loss of tens of millions here or there also goes on to produce new seed and A round opportunities within a 5-7 year horizon. It suggests that large later stage rounds from giant funds should index on whether the company is increasing the velocity of money enough that it is likely to yield a certain number of new companies, and its talent is risk taking enough to join more startups, and then find a way to get exposure and participation in those through the earlier stage VCs that focus on them as a hedge. Like a $150m investment in a D round for some tech company whose massive growth is behind it should be hedged with $10m+ of participation in VC funds doing seed and A rounds in that company's market where all their talent is going to leave for now that the $150m company has gone corporate.

  • by barrysteve on 9/20/22, 8:30 AM

    The internet is over because we have to start subtracting sh*t off it, like pop ups that returned in cookie notices and sign up fade-in boxes. We need to subtract off the bot spam, the copy & paste blogs that haunt google. We need to subtract off posts like this one that dare to fill the readers mind with hopeless garbage glossed up with red hot cultural molasses.

    The internet is the khala from starcraft, it connects our thoughts and emotions to our internet brothers and sisters. An interconnected web of points.

    We don't need a gustav dore inspired horror cluttering up the place. Subtract out the froth at the bottom of a crashed beach wave, and you'll have the best internet there's ever been.

  • by jaqalopes on 9/20/22, 12:39 PM

    I’ve been waiting for an article like this. I feel much the same way. My question for the author is, what do we do about it? I’d love to make some friends who share my worldview and go camp off-grid with them once a month to be in touch with real life. How to find those people and coordinate that trip? Therein lies the rub.

    It’s easy to be a solo dropout and turn your back on the world. The problem comes when no one goes with you, and now you’re just an old man yelling at a cloud. I yearn desperately for a life where my connections to everyone I know aren’t mediated by the internet. But as long as everyone else is still on the internet, I’m pretty much SOL.

  • by larsnystrom on 9/20/22, 11:55 AM

    It’s as if the author put my thoughts into words, and then put all other thoughts into words, and it resulted in many, many words, without much thought put into it.
  • by mrkramer on 9/20/22, 10:36 AM

    This article is akin to dot-com bubble mentality: "Internet sucks", "Internet is dead, move on" etc. but then Amazon, Google and Facebook rose, proved critics wrong and got mad rich doing it.

    If engagement and revenue is in decline for internet businesses that means nothing. There are always business cycles of expansion and retraction.

    The only thing that can kill internet is something better than the internet.

  • by hoseja on 9/20/22, 7:39 AM

    This guy's slurping the slop off the top of the mob and complains it's fecal and watery, while invoking alchemy to try to explain why.

    There's more deep, weird, genuinely interesting stuff than ever, just usually not on twitter. Actually, yeah, the author is conflating Web 2.0 with the internet.

  • by camillomiller on 9/20/22, 9:18 AM

    Old man is getting older. News at 12.
  • by smitty1e on 9/20/22, 9:59 AM

    All human efforts

    Are but Towers of Babel

    Growing to collapse

  • by askhan on 9/20/22, 10:45 AM

    Reading the article with the understanding that it was written by a bot, complete with Denigration of Daily Mail subroutine, helps prove its point.
  • by bullen on 9/21/22, 8:55 AM

    The internet is the final medium and media.

    But energy is finite.

    So he's both right and wrong at the same time.

    Eventually he will be right when we reach Mad Max without cars.

  • by taylodl on 9/20/22, 1:44 PM

    One thing is for sure, this site is already over thanks to HN!
  • by jl6 on 9/20/22, 11:23 AM

    The internet is fine. This is the sound of bubbles popping.
  • by boxmonster on 9/20/22, 7:58 AM

    I was going to say the article is written in the style of Bill Hicks with some George Carlin, but then I remember that everyone is freaked out right now and "end of the world" themes are popular. No the internet is not going away, unless of course the world does. Some current concerns from an American point of view:

    - An ex President may be indicted soon, the first time in US history

    - The ex President threatens the nation with the wrath of his supporters

    - How much danger are Americans in from domestic terrorism? Not sure, but could be substantial

    - The American West is drying up. Europe and China are running out of water too

    - Russia is losing the war. No one knows what to expect when Putin is backed into a corner

    - An election is 7 weeks away. No one knows what will happen. Will there be revolt by the losers?

    - The pandemic may be declared over but is still killing people. Long Covid is a problem

    - Gender and sex cultural wars are raging in the Anglo sphere

    - Inflation is slowly eating into the savings of Americans

    - Supply chain and workforce turmoil are still a problem from the pandemic

    - The Greenland ice sheet is melting at a faster rate than expected. The Gulf Stream may shut down

    - Climate change is disrupting agriculture and there are dangers of famines and climate refugees

    It's all happening at once in real time.

  • by throwaway787544 on 9/20/22, 10:16 AM

    As long as clickbait drivel like this is upvoted, and advertising is legal, there will be internet.

    And after that, when we return to the primordial ooze of AOLs and Prodigys and CompuServes, and even before that to UseNet and BBSes, when there is barely a commercial entity left, but there is still a wire to shove weird binary non-euclydian poetry into, there will be internet.

    And even after, when illicit shortwave modems screech their crude 300 baud message across the planet, and very slowly a fat gray cat, Cheshire-grinning a question about a sandwich, progressively renders into a cracked and crudely lit LCD, an old meme will take form, and there, in the gray matter, there will be internet.

    Nobody really knows when the body dies. After brain death, and then organ failure, and all the electricity's gone, a rotting corpse still feeds the world, mother's diesel for the biological engine of life. Who knows where the internet will go, or for how long, or in what strange aeons it will return? Who can say if ours was even the first?