from Hacker News

“We kill people based on metadata” and other metadata things

by mantiq on 8/24/22, 5:30 PM with 263 comments

  • by mikece on 8/24/22, 5:43 PM

    "Signature strikes" -- the target has a signature (movement, data, use of a satellite phone or specific cellular number, entourage, etc) that matches that of an HVT (high value taget) that is authorized for termination by drone strike. The CIA has killed lots of the wrong people because "signature strikes" don't require second source intelligence to verify who the target is (eg: is the person using the satellite phone really the HVT or is it a courier or even his kid?). As an American I'm ashamed that my government has done things like this and I fully support those responsible for these programs to be tried as war criminals.

  • by lotharcable on 8/24/22, 6:01 PM

    Governments killing people without due process in this manner is criminal homicide.

    Each person needs to held individually accountable for their crimes. State secrets should be declassified and released. Each person's individual actions should be documented. And they should be tried in court and serve sentences commensurate with their level of participation.

    This does not secure the country. This creates enemies and makes the situation worse.

    If we lived in a just world ever single one of these people would be serving a lifetime in jail. This includes the politicians that approved funding for it as well as any lawyers and judges that rubber stamped it.

    There is war and then there is what the Federal government is doing. They are not the same thing.

    It is unacceptable. It is global tyranny.

  • by arminiusreturns on 8/24/22, 6:02 PM

    Please, with the anniversary coming up shortly, remember the event that they used as an excuse to start "programs" like these: 9/11.

    I was too young and dumb and propagandized to know what I was getting myself into, signing up to go fight "those evil terrorists", but it didnt take long for me to realize something wasnt right. I spent the vast majority of my life since I got out of the Corps trying to understand the why of it all, starting with the small picture view from an infantrymans perspective, working my way up piece by piece until I was at the 30k ft view at the global scale.

    You can't solve the war on terror or the turning on of the totalitarian surveillance state without solving 9/11, the justification that enabled those things. The story as told by government and their operation mockingbird 2.0 lackeys in media just isn't true.

    What I realized, that still terrifies me, is that all these tools and techniques we used "over there", are going to end up being used against us (and other countries) domestically.

  • by lupire on 8/24/22, 5:42 PM

    Metadata is data.

    There is no "just" metadata. Metadata is a relative classification of one piece of data compared to another piece of data, not an absolute classification.

  • by lizardactivist on 8/24/22, 7:32 PM

    The CIA is a US state-sponsored terrorist organisation. Every one of those people should be on trial for war crimes.

    The only consolation is that many of those people, the so-called "jackals", will eventually be taken out by their own. The diplomatic disasters they could cause should their conscience ever make them talk is too great of a risk -- all loose ends are eventually dealt with.

  • by de6u99er on 8/24/22, 5:43 PM

    Imagine having a number similar to the one of a terrorist's burner phone and getting called by mistake by his handler.

  • by forgetfulness on 8/24/22, 5:49 PM

    For a while I saw Palantir showing what sounded like remorse in their website, in stating explicitly that they had purposefully taken distance from their days security contractors providing products in service of the War on Terrorism; they provided one that was used precisely for this.

    It was a change from the previous branding I saw from them, one where they would whitewash themselves by showcasing their most charismatic employees, showing that they were a friendly tech company for cool people (look, we have a handsome black dude who plays the guitar!), regardless of, you know, the blood money.

    Now their website only talks about power and disruption, while showing pictures of heavy industry, infrastructure, and war.

  • by throwaway0asd on 8/24/22, 5:46 PM

    To me discussions about privacy often seem like bullshit. Here is a comment I wrote yesterday about a former AdWords employee as privacy violation apologist:

    Hypocritically people bitch about intrusive data collection from governments and yet simultaneously give away the same data, and encourage others to do the same, and more to private companies knowing that data will be weaponized against them. As such it’s almost impossible to take any opinion promoting commercial violations of privacy seriously.

  • by Maro on 8/24/22, 5:53 PM

    I think the article's second part is missing the point [where a bunch of tools are recommended to remove metadata from eg. pdf files].

    I suspect by "metadata" the general meant: A is a verified terrorist, B communicates a lot with A or maybe is often co-located with A, fits the demographic of a terrorist and some other coincidental "metadata" is enough to put a high-ish probability on B being a terrorist and target B; or at least treat him/her as acceptable collateral damage.

  • by hindsightbias on 8/24/22, 6:10 PM

  • by yieldcrv on 8/24/22, 5:53 PM

    what is going on in the comments on that site? what community is that

  • by lupire on 8/24/22, 5:46 PM

    The article is new, but the overly narrow HN title is 2014

  • by zaroth on 8/24/22, 6:15 PM

    Pretty sure it was metadata that allowed the US to locate and strike Zawahiri in Kabul with a predator drone.

    So safe to say the US isn’t going to stop doing this any time soon.

  • by anthk on 8/24/22, 10:33 PM

    Use pdf2dejvu to convert all your PDF's to DjVU. Convert all your images to farbleld, too.

    Problem solved.

  • by thenerdhead on 8/24/22, 6:04 PM

    Maybe this should be taught at big corporations of when being too “data driven” can be deadly.

  • by kornhole on 8/24/22, 9:21 PM

    Isn't the company called 'Meta' actually short for metadata?

  • by nimbius on 8/24/22, 6:04 PM

    the General was quoted as having said this in in 2014.

    As many predicted correctly: "metadata" has become profoundly more difficult to collect in 2022 for those willing to invest the time and effort.

  • by ugjka on 8/24/22, 5:55 PM

    What's up with those comments in the comment section

  • by CamperBob2 on 8/24/22, 5:42 PM

    Good time to point out that Reality Winner is (edit: was) sitting in prison for less than what Trump appears to be guilty of.

  • by wudangmonk on 8/24/22, 6:05 PM

    The CIA, an organization well known for assasinations and coups all around the world kills people? WHAAT?

  • by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on 8/24/22, 5:53 PM

    "sussy General Michael Hayden"

    The author shows their bias.

    I think it's good that US intelligence uses every tool at their disposal against foreign threats. Tell me why they shouldn't? What is the alternative?

  • by evancox100 on 8/24/22, 5:55 PM

    Article seems to draw an overly narrow conclusion that metadata only means extra data attached to document files like pdf, etc. When CIA says “metadata” they mean things like who you talked to (vs. what you said), where you were (vs. what you did), etc. I mean sure watch out for metadata if you are leaking document files or whatever, but it’s much broader than that.