by cr4zy on 6/20/22, 6:00 PM with 571 comments
by causality0 on 6/20/22, 11:09 PM
Maybe when I can get a headset that offers onboard focus-adjustment and some kind of omnidirectional treadmill I'll sink another thousand dollars into VR but until then I am done.
by ahelwer on 6/20/22, 7:54 PM
It is sad that we are unavoidably headed to a world where a company like Meta monopolizes control of two of our five traditional senses (sight and sound). Their business model is based on behavior modification and I fully expect their highly-compensated employees to be endlessly creative in the application of headsets to that end. The sheer scale of R&D expenditure required to get realistic/usable VR is daunting and seems beyond FOSS capabilities. Not just hardware, but software like SLAM/VIO or image processing. I backed the Simula One headset but the disparity in development resources between them and meta is pretty astounding.
by gabea on 6/20/22, 8:06 PM
I expect more comments on how to influence this technology versus dismissing it as not applicable for the human race.
by PheonixPharts on 6/20/22, 8:10 PM
In that time I have relearned an old adage that people before my generation would know well "the last mile is the longest mile". In R&D this feels far more extreme than in running.
VR seems very similar to autonomous driving. Quest 1/2 are light years ahead of what we had a decade or so ago. At the same time it's nowhere near to the point where it's going to be a major part of my day. The Quest was mind blowing when I first used it, but I got bored remarkably fast. Most importantly, none of my problems with quest are the problems that are being solved here.
The biggest one, in my opinion, is still space. I want a 10'x10' area to run around in to even start having fun, and even in a house I still don't have an open space that supports that without moving furniture around.
The mobile phone took over our lives because it's so small and convenient. Large TVs work because we've been building homes around them for decades, and TV spaces are also communal, family/friend spaces. This brings up another issue, VR is fundamentally isolating. I get annoyed enough when friends don't look up from their phones.
The remaining obstacles for VR to conquer seem to be arguably bigger problems than the ones that self driving cars need to tackle to take over the roads.
by dmix on 6/20/22, 8:06 PM
We're really getting to the point where it's mainstreaming.
by celestialcheese on 6/21/22, 6:01 AM
I get giddy thinking about being able to have weekly dinners or watch movies with my family across the country and have it feel like we're actually there. This feels far off, but it seems like zuck is getting the pieces together, like the Codec photorealistic avatars [1], to make this happen.
Facetime, Zoom, etc, it's just draining not being able to hold eye contact because of camera placement. And people get distracted. And the current products, BigscreenVR and the weird cartoon avatars and VRChat, just don't do it for me.
FB will probably fuck this up, but I see the vision.
1 - https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/28/22751177/facebook-meta-c...
by schaefer on 6/20/22, 7:59 PM
A true 3d native window manager. where I can arrange each individual window anywhere in the 360 degree space?
Until that is solid, VR is not the productivity tool I was hoping it can be.
Just like Mobile(ios, android), Microsoft could not possibly drop the ball any harder here.
by theschwa on 6/20/22, 8:06 PM
by mihaifm on 6/20/22, 8:18 PM
by talkingtab on 6/21/22, 2:38 AM
No one now has a clue as to what VR will eventually look like. Meta is clueless, VR critics are clueless. But the fact is that VR changes how we interact with the internet in a fundamental way. IMHO. :-)
by SilverBirch on 6/20/22, 8:00 PM
I'm not an expert in the area, but resolution and HDR seem like basically solved problems - in that they're just logical progressions of where we are today. The focal depth one I didn't understand. He says normal monitors are a fixed distance, whereas in VR and AR you need to focus on different distances. But these VR headsets are just a fixed distance away, so how is that really a problem?
Fundamentally these problems are clearly necessary buticie not sufficient for VR.
by thinkingemote on 6/20/22, 8:52 PM
Identities which someone can invent for themselves which can be independent generally from geography, genetics, looks, temperament, age etc. Freedom to be whoever and whatever you want to be. Today's social VR users are often playing with their own identity right now.
It's all about image, a spectacle, a way to make personalities and reality flexible and it's a way for identity to be expressed as a kind of collection of things that can be commodified and packaged up for sale. That's the future which is looked at.
However I think we might see a genuine sub culture emerging, as a reaction against this. We can possibly see some of this in some of the language used in a few strange semi-underground youth music events today. It's not anti tech, and not anti identity at all! More like a demand to be in control of their own methods and ways of consumption. A certain ironic detachment from corporations.
by rubicon33 on 6/21/22, 3:20 AM
It's easy to be a skeptic right now. The headsets are heavy, the experiences aren't perfect, etc. But what you see now is just the beginning. The VR skeptics and naysayers are the same people who dismissed personal computing. VR is absolutely game changing and it is just a matter of time until the technology is there to truly win over even the most die hard skeptics.
by wruza on 6/21/22, 6:01 AM
I’m speaking not only of shooter/action games, but also quests, rpg, fixed-altitude (non first person) sims, third person character control in general. Basically the same games like on PC, but with a depth component and a little changes in controlling, if any.
Instead we have: jump-around and slash games; games that require to walk, move hands and point/look around, cinematic panoramic “games”, meditation “games”, and other try-and-forget lo-fi bullshit which almost no one would buy if it wasn’t VR novelty. Which fades away in just a week.
Basically, today’s VR is a tiny niche like any other flat-sales Steam niche. And it will stay so. Because most people like to sit and relax. When a job requires them to walk, jump and move their hands, they start to think about to maybe land into some office. When they want to talk to someone, they sit down. When they work with visuals, the last thing they want is to stay up and stress their hands. Hands at the belly is the most comfortable position for extended time.
How VR companies are unable to understand these basic, stupidest and already explored principles is frustrating.
by 0xakhil on 6/20/22, 8:20 PM
And Facebook will get the opportunity to own the platform completely for the first time. So the soon they reach their goal, the better. Actually, it is a smart move.
by system16 on 6/20/22, 7:52 PM
by chrstphrknwtn on 6/21/22, 3:15 AM
I remember watching TV shows in the late 90s talking about the VR revolution that was just around the corner. It seems that Virtual Reality™ is still just screens on faces. The whole article is about displays and lenses.
Regarding the 'indistinguishable from reality', a virtual reality would need to include things like smells, environmental conditions like wind and rain and thinner air, and physical sensations like pain.
In many ways we're not really sure what 'reality' is, so suggesting that one could make a virtual reality that is indistinguishable from actual reality doesn't even really make sense.
Virtual Reality is just ersatz senses.
by colordrops on 6/20/22, 10:32 PM
* Full field of view.
* Not having the feel of a clunky headset on your face.
* Not having to regularly align and adjust the headset so that the visual looks right.
by Animats on 6/20/22, 9:02 PM
Carmack says all that has to be squeezed down to swim goggle size to go mainstream. Eyeglass size to become ubiquitous, like smartphones. Eventually, but it's some years out.
Meanwhile, we should see low-end standalone systems (Google Glass 3.0?) and high-end tethered systems with a base station doing the graphics.
by mjfl on 6/21/22, 5:07 AM
by civilized on 6/20/22, 11:35 PM
by Geee on 6/20/22, 8:54 PM
by phkahler on 6/20/22, 10:11 PM
All of these goals can be achieved with real holographic displays. We need the equivalent of a GPU optimised for computational holography, and a display with high enough resolution to render phase coherent interference patterns (rgb omg). No lenses will be required. This is the endgame for wearable displays.
by AltruisticGapHN on 6/21/22, 9:38 AM
Even with the crappy compression on YouTube, you can watch a scene where you are on the beach in VR. After all, isn't that the dream? Of course you can't feel the waves splashing on your feet, but you can definitely enjoy the feeling of being in that space. However, the lack of the bright deep blue sky is really noticeable.
Likewise in games. I definitely preferred Skyrim VR on Quest via a cable over the RIFT because the blacks are much deeper (oled), but on the other end of the spectrum, the sky is always lacking in brightness.
My hunch is this is going to be hard to solve... I mean most homes today don't even have any kind of lighting that remotely reproduces the outdoor lighting.. I doubt that the small screen inside the headset will be able to simulate a bright blue sky... I mean I don't think it's just a matter of "intensity".
But who knows I am clueless, it could be that the pixel density is what prevents the screen from giving the "bright blue sky" depth of light.
by rob74 on 6/20/22, 8:31 PM
by unnouinceput on 6/21/22, 5:28 AM
But if it will be locked to an FB account then fuck that shit.
by AndrianV on 6/21/22, 9:48 AM
by intrasight on 6/21/22, 12:31 PM
by spywaregorilla on 6/20/22, 7:46 PM
by Havoc on 6/20/22, 8:09 PM
Slightly confused as to why they stuck the zuck into what looks like a plywood shed though?
by seydor on 6/21/22, 5:59 AM
But VR is not going to be a wide success, it will be a really nice 360 image viewer for when those cameras become popular and cheap. It has its place , but it is obstructive. And it cannot become a status symbol, which imho is a big driver behind iphone sales
by maximus-decimus on 6/21/22, 10:34 PM
VR is more immersive, but it's a lot less convenient than just a 2d screen and I don't see that changing.
by jshaqaw on 6/21/22, 8:46 PM
by Netcob on 6/21/22, 9:38 AM
And of course I'm not going to get a product that needs to be tied to a mandatory Facebook account.
by xdrosenheim on 6/21/22, 4:49 AM
by dmix on 6/20/22, 8:07 PM
The after-market Quest head kits for ~$20 make it much more comfortable.
by freemint on 6/21/22, 12:31 AM
by kache_ on 6/20/22, 8:35 PM
by horns4lyfe on 6/22/22, 5:07 AM
by pyb on 6/20/22, 9:35 PM
by eszaq on 6/21/22, 6:10 AM
by Slix on 6/20/22, 8:05 PM
by nathias on 6/20/22, 8:10 PM
by xor99 on 6/20/22, 11:54 PM
by langsoul-com on 6/21/22, 9:23 AM
by dukeofdoom on 6/20/22, 10:25 PM
by sys_64738 on 6/20/22, 9:45 PM
https://www.scifipulse.net/richard-herd-passes-to-the-final-...
by nrclark on 6/20/22, 7:50 PM
by raguilera on 6/21/22, 1:41 AM
by poisonarena on 6/20/22, 7:45 PM
by planetsprite on 6/20/22, 7:47 PM
by puranjay on 6/21/22, 8:38 AM
by notyourwork on 6/20/22, 10:37 PM
by lxe on 6/21/22, 1:39 AM
If you grew up in the 90s, you probably remember hand held PCs, and Apple Newton. Those were pretty cool. I wouldn't really HAVE to have one, but those were pretty neat. Then the "PDA" appeared -- I knew many who had those and used them for business. "Regular folks" didn't really need one but they could find these devices to be pretty useful. Then Blackberry came about, and then BOOM -- the capacitive touchscreen, and the iPhone with a few killer features that drastically changed mobile computing for the last 15 years. Everyone has one.
Sometimes it takes decades for someone to "get it right" as tech matures. VR is in the pre-newton stage... if we are to compare the "final form" of VR to be what we think of smart phones now, VR is probably in the "60's or 70's era" stage of development. We probably won't see an explosion or a revolution of VR-tech for a few decades.