by karlding on 6/3/22, 4:03 AM with 355 comments
by talove on 6/3/22, 11:56 AM
This isn't just losing nice-to-have features, many of these features are for safety.
One example, the thumb toggles on the Di2 shifters allow me to change screens on my computer without removing my hands from the hoods / grips. They is now disabled. If you are descending at 40-50mph you have to remove your hand from your hood in order to see your map.
This might seem minor but the point is that cycling is already super dangerous. The tech is there for safety as much as anything else. I find this incredibly anti-cyclist and anti-consumer.
by black_puppydog on 6/3/22, 10:00 AM
I'm pretty happy that my bikes (MTB and Road) have zero electric components (not even light if I don't strap it on) and I want to keep it that way. I have yet so see an electric part that I need or that even just provides me with enough benefit that it's worth the hassle of freakin' firware updates. Much less having a CAN bus on my bike? is this only for electric bikes or also for gears? I'm confused...
Anyhow, I always thought that running a bike repair shop might be my plan B for when I finally get fed up with computers, but I recently realized bikes are now computers with wheels, just like cars and fridges and toasters and door bells... So I'm looking for a new plan B.
FWIW, just as with fridges and toasters, I think this is a move in the wrong direction. It increases CO2/pollution footprint and reduces lifetime. And as we see here, it opens you up to a whole new class of customer abuse.
by gavanm on 6/3/22, 6:45 AM
I think the nearest car analogy is ODBII ports and data access - ANT+ is a wireless communication protocol, mostly for reading statistics (I think it can also be used for issuing commands).
Hammerhead had a license to access the privately configured Shimano data - and then they were purchased by SRAM (who are Shimano Bike division's main competitor).
As a result, Shimano is (for now) limiting a competitors ability to see the data produced by Shimano components.
This feels very petty to me - most of the data is essentially going to be "which gear is the front/rear in", and "what shifting pattern do you want to use" - though it might also extend to preventing future interoperability (like preventing competing wireless shifting levers triggering the other manufacturers components) - which would be a loss for consumers.
by pdkl95 on 6/3/22, 8:51 AM
Trying to restrict competitors from making interoperable products is admitting you don't want to participate in a well-running competitive market and instead deserve monopoly power.
[1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...
[2] including features like interoperability with a competitor's product.
by ubermonkey on 6/3/22, 1:28 PM
For those that don't click through, the real f-you aspect here is that until recently Shimano's own site bragged of its compatibility with Hammerhead, so presumably people bought Di2 equipped bikes based on that promise -- and now have had it jerked back.
I'm not affected -- my bikes run SRAM -- but if I were a Shimano user, I'd be pretty damn angry. It's a petty, smallminded move.
by Nextgrid on 6/3/22, 5:40 AM
Shimano are obviously assholes here, but Hammerhead are also disappointing for not standing their ground.
by rektide on 6/3/22, 6:28 AM
The idea of Competitve Compatibility somewhat suggests an alternate path. But just defining these denialist products, that resist their users having any choice- it's a pretty blamket phenomenon & yet lacks a name.
by richardfey on 6/3/22, 7:38 AM
Or a more dystopic example: your fridge actively jamming the wifi of your washing machine because they are from two warring brands
by CalChris on 6/3/22, 7:02 PM
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/03/strava-abruptly-ends-3rd...
and then eventually backed down
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/03/strava-reverses-course-t...
He rightfully has a lot of sway and hopefully Shimano will see his light.
by asdff on 6/3/22, 5:28 PM
by smegsicle on 6/3/22, 4:47 AM
not a long article, but the relevant parts seem to be:
> At the request of Shimano, [...] software update on June 2nd [...] will remove on-screen battery status and shifter mode data, front and rear derailleur indications, and Karoo screen control via the Di2 hood buttons from Shimano Di2 drivetrains.
> Shimano has withdrawn permissions [...] until we are able to forge a new agreement.
by kldavenport on 6/3/22, 4:51 AM
by ClumsyPilot on 6/4/22, 2:31 AM
What if that's the one and only functionality that I need - are they going to compensate me? Aren't they revising contract of sale after the money is paid?
Could the manufacturer start charging me subsribtion for some functionality that was previously 'included'?
What are the limits to how much could be taken back from me after I paid money for the goods? If I bought a car, and the manufacturer updated it to require a separate subscribtion for driving in each state, would that actually be illegal?
by hughw on 6/3/22, 2:50 PM
by i5heu on 6/3/22, 9:46 AM
I will switch now to another producer.
No money for customer hating companies.
by qq66 on 6/3/22, 6:31 AM
by PaulDavisThe1st on 6/3/22, 3:29 PM
Nothing in that time has made that seem like less useful advice, and quite a bit has happened (including this news) that makes it seem even more apropros than before.
by wly_cdgr on 6/3/22, 3:29 PM
by yesdocs on 6/3/22, 3:19 PM
by INTPenis on 6/3/22, 6:30 AM
by amanzi on 6/3/22, 5:41 AM
by abakker on 6/3/22, 2:37 PM
by golemotron on 6/3/22, 11:48 AM