by dkarp on 4/22/22, 7:18 PM with 307 comments
Curious globally, but mostly interested in USA/UK.
I would like to live a more pastoral life, but anecdotally I've heard that people tend to be very different to those you find in a city.
by Joey21 on 4/22/22, 8:04 PM
by EntropyIsAHoax on 4/22/22, 8:06 PM
Afaik they're the only company to work for so it's a bit limited. But I have a friend who lives there and is one of their many developers and she loves it. I understood from her that they're staying permanently remote even after the pandemic, but they might give you preferential treatment if you're willing to move anyways. And I know she still has the possibility of going into the office whenever she wants and has great relationships with her coworkers.
Some of their problems are very interesting too, as much of the software is to run their highly optimized warehouse. Their whole schtick is that they can get your product out of the warehouse in just an hour or two, so if you can pay for fast shipping it will get to you however fast you want. And this ends up being a very interesting optimization problem with human and machine components as well.
by rmason on 4/22/22, 7:53 PM
I used to live in a small rural town West of Lansing when I worked as an agronomist in a past career. I left to do a SaaS startup and stayed local because this small town became a test site for cable Internet. Note this was a time when neither Lansing nor Grand Rapids had a broadband Internet option, everything was dial up or ISDN if you were lucky.
My new office was across from city hall. I advocated to the city father's that they spend a fraction of the money promoting it's empty industrial park (every small town in Michigan has one) to lure software companies to town promoting it's then rare broadband Internet. They treated me as if I was advocating building a spaceport for aliens. In fact if they saw me coming they'd cross the street.
I found out years later that quite by accident a startup had moved to the town specifically for the availability of broadband. Now they only have around 25 employees twenty years later but in a town of less than 3,000 I think that is still pretty good. But with a small amount of effort they could have had a dozen such companies ;<(.
by codingdave on 4/22/22, 7:48 PM
by stickfigure on 4/22/22, 8:21 PM
I still see many of my Bay Area friends; weekend parties at my place are way more fun than parties in their tiny city houses/apartments. And we still keep in touch remotely.
Not every rural area is the same; I also lived for a year in eastern Kentucky and the people are indeed a bit different there. But I still made friends, and I'm not a major extrovert or anything.
by toast0 on 4/22/22, 8:24 PM
If remote work is important to you, check out internet options. There's a chance of Comcast and CenturyLink, but both get shifty about actually servicing homes in places (Comcast won't run a drop to my house even though their cable is on the pole at the corner of the lot; CenturyLink has run out of DSLAM ports in some neighborhoods, and some homes are too far from the DSLAM to get usable speeds); some public utility districts do fiber, but if your prospective house isn't already passed by their fiber, you would need to pay actual costs to extend the network plus actual costs to run a drop to your DMARC (which gets spendy if you've got underground wiring and a long driveway; I've got a $50k installation quote which 40% is undergrounding along my driveway and 60% is stringing the fiber on poles for 2ish miles); but some counties don't do that. I've seen relatively good reports for Starlink, but waiting time is unknowable and bandwidth and latency fluctuate during the day.
by severine on 4/22/22, 7:56 PM
The Center on Rural Innovation (CORI) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization partnering with rural leaders across the country to build digital economies that support scalable entrepreneurship and lead to more tech jobs in rural America.
https://ruralinnovation.us/community-impact/rural-innovation...
Not affiliated, just found it prompted by your question, looks very interesting!
by kylehotchkiss on 4/22/22, 10:40 PM
* Fast and cheap fiber internet. Reasonably priced utilities.
* A reasonably sized and maintained home with a yard goes for under $200,000.
* Small airport with a connection to Charlotte on AA that I believe had federally subsidized aviation access.
* Small risk of natural disasters.
* I did a photography gallery and the mayor of that town stopped by to see it.
I enjoyed my time there but after friends slowly moved to bigger cities, I did too. I can't see myself happy there anymore. I probably wouldn't be married now and probably would have had a harder time forward in my career. Even if there was a tech scene there, it wouldn't be larger than 10 or so people, and the local tech companies were far less advanced.
But if I had a choice as a kid where would be more fun to grow up, I'd say back in Virginia. More room to roam, outdoor activities nearby without parking issues, yard for hosting get-togethers, and far less pressure in school/extra-circulars.
Hope this helps a little :)
by niblettc on 4/22/22, 9:02 PM
by stevenking86 on 4/22/22, 7:56 PM
by duxup on 4/22/22, 8:05 PM
Number of tech worker's that's hard to know.
by Bjorkbat on 4/23/22, 12:09 AM
It's weird, since at 500,000 people we definitely meet the definition of a big city, but culturally people behave like it's a small town. Additionally, it's feasible to live in the mountains and still live less than an hour away, or to live in one of the nearby villages (Corrales, Placitas, Tijeras) and essentially enjoy the same lifestyle as someone living in rural New Mexico despite Albuquerque being very close by.
And yeah, we have ample numbers of people who work in tech, albeit most of them are connected to the federal government in some capacity, so it's not the "trendy" kind of tech. For that reason, and perhaps also because of the age and general conservative nature of people who work for the federal government, the tech community here might come across as having less energy than a place that's a fraction the size of Albuquerque. You're more likely to find a fellow programmer through a outdoor group than a tech meetup.
by ryandrake on 4/22/22, 8:35 PM
by pepperleaf on 4/23/22, 4:26 AM
My barn has wooden beams, four toilets yet cost less than half to buy than the middle terrace apartment in London that came with 1 toilet and only 1 bedroom and a corridor kitchen. It is also ~4x in area. It came with an allotment and 5 generous plots where I like to plant leeks, onions and runnerbeans where I batch freeze them rather than get them wrapped in plastic shipped from Argentina. I have breathtaking scenery, fresh air and countryside walks nearby along with many ofsted outstanding schools.
It is quite tricky to live far from amenities in the UK so expect markets and farm shops aplenty, I can get unpasteurised milk fresh from pasture grazed cow to bottle the same day which I could not in the city. Our island, being smaller than a state it is easy to get anywhere, festivals are aplenty, fishing in Aberystwyth, a blustery night in Edinburgh for instance and a car or short journey to the station can have you on the continent and in Ghent or Bruge, Antwerp, Berlin or Stockholm the same day.
People are generally rational, courteous and kind mannered. I am greeted as I walk past, unlike in parts of London or Birmingham. I do not lock my doors, and my daughter is learning about life in a safe and idyllic environment I can provide and ok ok it is true my neighbours are mostly old dears, it only means I am less likely to disturb them. I don't hear police sirens and ambulances every day and I don't have to stand armpits in my face travelling the tube yet I can still get to a major airport faster than I when I was in east London for a time.
Unless for the nightlife it beats me why anyone capable would want to be near the cities esp. now with remote work becoming the regular experience of many. If you choose the UK and would like to know more feel free to username -åt- gmail me.
by brightball on 4/22/22, 8:14 PM
Beautiful downtown area around a waterfall, tons of biking, near mountains and 3 lakes.
House prices are through the roof right now due to the influx of people though. Stories of bidding wars that used to be unheard of in this area.
by sereja on 4/22/22, 8:26 PM
It is not exactly a rural community: it's just 20 or so families of remote tech workers (mostly freelancers) living a few kilometers from a small old town with dirt cheap land and local labor (like "buy a two-story house with one month's SF salary" kind of cheap). It was founded before the pandemic by a guy who used to work as an SWE at Yandex and grew tired of living in Moscow.
I wonder if something like this exists elsewhere.
by AnimalMuppet on 4/22/22, 7:52 PM
My guess: You need at least a town with a state college. (Do you consider Fort Collins, Colorado to be "rural"? It's about 110,000 people. Decent tech scene there.)
by Kerrick on 4/22/22, 9:11 PM
Here’s an excerpt from a draft of our organizational plan:
> When Americans raised in a rural area want to enter knowledge work or start a business, they’re usually stuck with two options: do something local, which caps their earning potential, or move to an urban metropolitan area, which exacerbates the problem of rural brain drain. [REDACTED] fosters and accelerates a recent third option: work remotely or start an internet-based business, opening up the earning potential formerly only available to those who chose to move to the big city, while keeping the people rooted in (and thus their earnings circulating through the economies of) their rural home.
> While the first thought to unlock aforementioned internet-based earning potential for rural Americans might be universal broadband on the scale of the rural electrification of America in the mid 1900s, there are two specific advantages that focusing on coworking as a complimentary solution provides. First, coworking spaces can be built as a centralized service for all citizens of a county, like a university exchange or a courthouse, when broadband internet service is available in part of a rural county but not to most of the citizens at home. Second, coworking spaces continue to provide value and foster economic potential even once every rural home has broadband internet, as evidenced by their success and popularity in cities across the world.
by cprayingmantis on 4/22/22, 8:52 PM
What made you interested in rural communities? What would make you likely to move to one? It’s quite a different way of life out here but I have no doubts that one could adjust.
by rayiner on 4/22/22, 8:36 PM
You don't even have to get that far out of the city to get away from city people. I'm just an hour from DC, in a part of Maryland where there are still quite a few farms within a 5 minute drive, and it's like night and day compared to the city. And I even have fiber internet! Strongly recommend it.
by rich_sasha on 4/22/22, 8:57 PM
We’re talking cows in pastures and dark skies. Hell, I know someone who helped raised some cattle on a common in return for a share of the meat... while actually within Oxford City boundaries.
by shasts on 4/22/22, 9:03 PM
Majority of the places I have seen tech people move to, the first thing to happen is increase in prices, be it housing or services.
by ben_w on 4/22/22, 10:21 PM
Also I grew up in Havant, and basically all of the A27 is a thin strip of urban surrounded by fields — my childhood home was almost equidistant between Lockheed Martin and a horse farm/castle.
Outside of the U.K., a friend lives on the edge of Zürich[0], has fields with grazing sheep an arrow’s flight[1] from their flat.
[0] technically not in the city itself, but in a conurbation and you wouldn’t notice the boundary by looking at an aerial photo.
[1] a bit longer than a stone’s throw; specifically 100 meters.
by cdkmoose on 4/22/22, 9:23 PM
by vampiretooth1 on 4/23/22, 1:42 AM
I'd try to Google something reminiscent of "AZ artificial community" - I tried Googling that, but couldn't find it. Kind of frustrated that I can't remember the name now!
by CalRobert on 4/22/22, 9:01 PM
It's.... Fine. The locals are mostly bemused. I'd struggle to do it in rural US where the political divide is much wider. I'm only here because it's cheap though.
by mattlondon on 4/22/22, 8:22 PM
by davidw on 4/22/22, 8:13 PM
https://www.bendbulletin.com/business/bend-is-u-s-capital-of...
It's a city of 100K people though, so I don't think it's what I would call 'rural' if you live in town.
by chaostheory on 4/22/22, 8:28 PM
by paulorlando on 4/22/22, 9:49 PM
by m82labs on 4/22/22, 9:04 PM
by lisper on 4/22/22, 11:52 PM
by hax0rbana on 4/22/22, 11:00 PM
Urbana, IL has a University of Illinois campus. In other words, it's a college town. To give you an idea of the culture, churches have pride flags painted on their signs and hang black lives matter banners. The main event at annual engineering open house is robo brawl, a scaled down version of battle bots. We have art scattered around town, made by local artists. The Independent Media Center has things ranging from a Makerspace, to a bicycle repair community, to books to prisoners. If you show up wanting to learn something, people will be happy to share what they know.
For amemities, we have gigabit fiber run by a regional company. If you want Comcast, they're here to. We have one of the best public transit systems in the country.
This doesn't describe all rural areas/smaller towns.
When we were selecting a city to start our hacker co-housing project, we factored in many things: cost of living, having smart people around, weather, taxes, civil rights, and of course the town's culture (with bigotry being the primary concern).
I think the main takeaway is to choose the location carefully. Not all rural areas are alike, just like not all big cities are alike. Think about the things that matter to you, and measure potential destinations based on those criteria. If it's critical that you have a goth club or something like that, you'll probably end up in a bigger city.
by greenie_beans on 4/22/22, 8:50 PM
Water Valley (population ~4k) is often described as an artists community. It's near Oxford, MS, which is also known for its literature and art.
by jen20 on 4/23/22, 10:46 AM
In terms of specifics in the UK, look west and southwest. Full of fantastic little villages which have communities.
by wincy on 4/23/22, 1:38 AM
Also it’s a college town so there’s night life and fun to be had, they’re inclusive and while they don’t have things like IKEA Kansas City and St. Louis are two hours away if you really want to scratch that bourgeoisie itch.
I work for them but don’t represent them, but saw your post and thought I’d make you aware of our growing team! I think there’s a few hundred engineers right now.
by coward123 on 4/22/22, 8:54 PM
by ixfo on 4/22/22, 8:31 PM
by PaulDavisThe1st on 4/22/22, 8:54 PM
More seriously, I'd say that I love doing "tech work" out here. Almost none of my neighbors know anything about what I do, and most of them don't want to know. Suits me fine. I'd rather talk about tech stuff online with people who know, and about everything else with my neighbors.
I also like that my village is more of an artist community (famous, and not so famous) more than a tech community. Generally more interesting people for own personal tastes. Also, living around the corner from my cookbook idol (to the extent that I have cookbook idols) is both interesting and intimidating.
by binarysolo on 4/22/22, 10:57 PM
These rural areas with tech folks tend to be outer suburbs of cities and/or niche touristy/outdoor places -- basically work-remote tech folks who live at an area to enjoy the other aspects the land can offer.
I run a remote-first business around Lake Tahoe in Nevada and there's def large pockets of CA tech expatriates here settling down here, but this area isn't exactly rural, it's a big tourist town. As you go east you end up in the desert and it gets pretty rural, and there's def a tech segment out there though it's highly correlated with a communal/art scene courtesy of Burning Man (art hippies that happen to tech).
by prettyStandard on 4/22/22, 10:02 PM
by linusgetonskype on 4/22/22, 9:02 PM
by watersb on 4/23/22, 2:51 AM
Ideally, the telescopes are located in remote areas. This led to the engineers and programmers out there, too, or perhaps the nearest college town.
by protomyth on 4/23/22, 12:11 AM
[edit] https://www.dakotacentral.com/services/internet/
BEK is the rural electric I was thinking of https://www.bek.coop/residential/lightband-internet
by maestroia on 4/22/22, 8:33 PM
by eatonphil on 4/22/22, 8:10 PM
Lancaster PA has or had a few tech companies.
So I'd say probably yes. Pick a county of 500 thousand people or so and start looking through their Craigslist for job postings. You'll find them eventually.
by ftyers on 4/23/22, 4:28 AM
by softwaredoug on 4/23/22, 5:21 PM
Where I live (Charlottesville VA) has one of the best data science communities compared to other meetups in other major metros. It’s actually easier because things are closer and less spread out, so it’s easier to stay involved. There’s university connections. Also people move here because they historically have been good enough to not need to live in a giant city to have reliable employment.
by fasteddie31003 on 4/22/22, 8:33 PM
by bitxbitxbitcoin on 4/22/22, 7:43 PM
by jcadam on 4/22/22, 11:23 PM
by techsolomon on 4/22/22, 7:52 PM
by ydlr on 4/23/22, 1:17 AM
by betwixthewires on 4/22/22, 8:44 PM
by chasd00 on 4/23/22, 12:36 AM
I grew up in a small town. People are people, good, bad, boring, strange, theres just fewer to chose from.
by danamit on 4/23/22, 1:10 AM
There isn't many before or after us sadly, which is why I am thinking of helping somehow to change that.
by lvass on 4/23/22, 12:50 AM
by jonathankoren on 4/23/22, 1:09 AM
by bombcar on 4/22/22, 8:23 PM
by TYPE_FASTER on 4/23/22, 11:29 PM
by l8rpeace on 4/23/22, 3:34 PM
by khaled_ismaeel on 4/22/22, 10:04 PM
by seshagiric on 4/22/22, 11:24 PM
by beej71 on 4/23/22, 1:38 PM
by xupybd on 4/23/22, 9:40 AM
by rel2thr on 4/22/22, 8:18 PM
by mountainriver on 4/22/22, 11:45 PM
by Fomite on 4/22/22, 11:39 PM
by mgarfias on 4/22/22, 9:44 PM
I'm about 3mi outside of town on 5 acres of trees, and I care barely see my neighbor. Its pretty quiet except for the occasional truck driving up the hill. Oh, and the neighbors (or me) occasionally shooting at something.
I highly recommend it, if you can deal with the lack of people and the generally conservative lifestyles/beliefs. If you're a libertarian, just leave me alone, type, it works just fine.
by kkfx on 4/23/22, 4:48 PM
I do not really live a pastoral life, behind very small scale personal vegetable garden behind the house, but around here there are few agricultural enterprises with some carrots, potatoes, chickpeas, lentils cultivation and (small) herds of cows, sheep, goats, with limited milk, meat and cured meats products. It's still far more a tourist place with a big golf (the highest in the region), crag, canyoning, paragliding, a small aeroclub with gliders and small STOLs etc.
Respect of the big city, downsides:
- less services, even if there are enough they are not as near and 24/7/365 available, it's not an issue in ordinary life but might be in some cases, like something broke and you need a replacement Saturday afternoon and Christmas Eve or you need to go to the nearby hospital, urgent but not as urgent to justify a chopper transfer, or just an unexpected desire to go to a Chinese restaurant/pizzeria/* and there are almost none nearby;
- little variety of neighbors witch means a still "intensive" social life, since people are far more social than the city, with continuous invitations for lunch, dinner, ... but near-zero "cultural social life" in the sense of meet up with people of similar cultural/technical interests, you can just go to the nearest city/agglomeration for that;
- some services (electricity and connectivity) are aerial so outages are a bit more frequent than the substantially zero I've experienced in cities. That's not a real issue if you are equipped (I have a small p.v. with lithium storage and my connection have a good enough 4G/dummy 5G (700MHz) backups, no data/speed/* caps), they are actually burying many lines but so far I've experienced around two/three time/year 1-10' power outage casually one of few hours, half-a-day casual connectivity outage the new buried FTTH should solve that before next winter.
pro:
- far more relaxed life, commuting when needed is of longer range, but faster, without queues, accidents, parking issues, on still good and well entertained roads (winter included);
- vast selection of activities in nature, if you like them like me: going climbing means just going nearby, hiking? Potentially there is even no need for a car!
- available services are less, but of better quality, like when you go to the Drive supermarket you are the first or at maximum the second served, you can even phone "hey, I see an impromptu offering of climbing strawberry plants, can you put 4 aside? I'll be there tomorrow!" etc
- more freedom of movement by any means, even if for many activities you are tied to a car and it's not "rural" enough to own a cheap old STOL or mosquito chopper to goes around (well, at least for 99% of the residents, very few have small choppers to connect them with the shore).
by dogman144 on 4/23/22, 12:51 AM
- People in tech do it, but I think it is still early. I'm discounting cities like Salt Lake, Nashville, Boise, and even Bozeman - new tech cities that used to be decently rural all things considered, and now are not. There seems to be a low amount of SV/NYC-style techies who are actually living out and around here, even though I think there is a lot of romance around the idea - working for Google and living in Lake Tahoe. Not a lot of people are actually doing it full time vs. 3 months during COVID who aren't Pete Thiel rich. As weak evidence, I knew someone personally who got a job at a good tech company in one of the rural states that people romanticize, and they were the first employee at that company in that state.
- I think what is more common is solid local tech scenes with local tech companies, many of whom "who recruit from people willing to move there" (quote from an engineer at a place like this). For every SoFi (I believe it has a large Montana presence or am I making that up), there are more local C++ agtech shops. There are a great meetups around farming hubs because of John Deere software and what it takes to hack or maintain it. Cool companies, stable income, simple life. I think there is also a growing mass of remote workers sitting in the 90-120 min belt from every tech city now, especially the smaller ones - Denver, Chattanooga.... Far enough way where you're in your own rural world, close enough to a job market to get an emergency in-person job if needed.
- It is definitely perfectly doable. Don't worry, the guy in the pickup truck likely isn't an a-hole. The politics are much more live and let live and revolve around hyper-local environmental, housing, taxing policy decisions. It is also almost a no-brainer financially if you are in the 3+ YoE range in your career, in a job that is safe remote, and past partying years. Do you want to go on your 5th year of bar crawling through NYC while your new "hey I'm finally making it" salary is getting eaten away by everything to do in your neighborhood that you've already done? Or decamp to upstate NY, and that $200k/yr base will set you for life within 5 years of saving. Why is this even more possible? Starlink. It works, it'll likely keep working, and it is going to change things.
- Decamping rural will start catching on I think, and it may profoundly change the Rust Belt, rural West, everywhere similar. The asymmetry of the opportunity vs. risk is just too much. Financially, it opens up near FI/RE outcomes without much effort. Move out, save up, move back to SF to do a cash purchase plus savings. For normies, it opens a peaceful stable life with a spouse and little league and $300k homes, while a tech salary flows into your local credit union and your kids' future crushing college debt is no more - now you're in the generational wealth category depending on your job. Right now it is more the contrarians doing it, but I think that will change, and these towns will go through some growing pains because of the income asymmetries hitting non-vacation towns. I don't think state governments are ready for it especially culturally (all that tech into Austin means tech donors in TX now), but also it'll help save their finances. If you look through rural appalachia, 1GB fiber is everywhere, there are mountains, there are funky college towns, and there are cheap homes. The worse the grind, inflation, everything gets, the more insane it is to sit on >$120/yr with a remote job and not step out of the geographic race for a while while staying in the career race just fine. You can leave SF at 27, come back at 31 a notably well-off person, and keep working for SF companies.
To your question, life out here isn't too different. People are people. The main differences are as follows.
- You'll get out of your levels.fyi tech pay bubble very quickly when you get an idea of the local incomes. You are walking wealthy, up there with the surgeon in the hospital. Some concerns you have will be very different from the "locals," but also it's up to you to become "a local" because the ethics of doing it aside, these communities are too small to avoid it. There are lots of ways to approach this - in short be a good person, be conscious of the opportunities you have, be modest, and volunteer.
- Local governance/government is hugely relevant - there are tangible ways to get involved in your community with possibilities for outcome that are otherwise hypothetical to the SF resident trying to run for local city council with layers of special interests and government above them to wade through. Here, it's a small town govt, a county govt, local strong interests, and a federal agency outpost somewhere in the 100 mil vicinity. For someone looking for tangible results from their efforts, that's a cool opportunity. Similarly, a small business is both affordable,in a friendly regulatory environment, and therefore not insane to try to do like in NYC. Take 3 years of vesting and start a bakery on main street.
- The main and surprising difference is you might empathize more with the militias/anti-Fed/anti-Big Govt. State government is certainly more of a thing, and Federal government isn't really a thing (at least visibly and per the who is coming to help me in a "help me in 60 minutes or less" judgement of authority). The geographical features of life here force more self and local reliance. Cell phone service drops out 10 miles out of town and its another 30 miles to drive. A broken down car and no water is dangerous. The culture here has survived in an environment that requires solving their own issues due to the nearest hospital/garrison/police station/fire department/anything being 60 minute drive away. Neighbors, local orgs, local ranchers - these are the positions of authority and help but not because of outdated ways. Rural Red and Urban Blue are stuck on opposite sides of this barrier: "what government?" vs. "the government is here to help and lets fund it more," // "why in the hell do I need a gun" vs "the local PD is 90 mins away... I should buy a handgun in case, seems crazy not to?" are all equally true.
- If you work in tech but hate the impacts of retail adtech, this is the world for you. QR codes, Seamless, Instagram - it's just not out here in the same way it's jumped the digital barrier into everyday life in cities. That noise is way turned down, and it's the best part of things here.
- The presence and role of corporate america and globalism is profound and weird. There isn't a federal government office for 2 hours, but there is a Walmart usually. It'll employ, but also is a faceless node. If DuPont poisons water in WV, it can get away with it for years, and delay the resolution for years. Similarly, there are good odds an Amazon Warehouse shows up around here at some point, and when that happens, the pros/cons get hyper-local with huge impacts. Nothing is theoretical this local.
- Human connections matter much more than they do in the cities. The protocols, handshake deals, politeness, earnestness, lack of snark, trust-first - all still present. This is a wonderful aspect of life here, and I think some of the friction points from my last bullet stem from this: two worlds colliding. But beyond that, if you're wondering where normal life went, it went out here.
I've come away from this with a central belief that perspective is everything, and geography has a lot to do with it. The lives of Bob on E 91st in Manhattan and Steven in Bridger, MT are significantly different for good reason, and it is hard without living in both dynamics to understand just how different they are, and what it implies I certainly have more empathy. Similarly, people are people, and there's magic to going rural and tying into that community. Critically, we all have the same passports. This part of the country and it's views can't just get written off. Our flour, fuel and beef depend on it, for one.
by mdasen on 4/22/22, 8:51 PM
In a lot of cases this is true - and it's not just about tech. Rural communities are often more religious, more conservative, lower income, lower educated, and have a lot less access to opportunity. Cities also mean that there's often a critical mass for many interests and minority groups. Are you LGBT? Are you a religious or racial minority? Do you have hobbies that might be more unique? Cities have the critical mass for so many groups of people.
Before I go further, I want to take a moment to talk about three things: income, education, and opportunity. Someone lacking any or all of those doesn't make them a bad person. However, moving to an area without those things can have an impact on you. In the US, a lot of services are paid for by property taxes collected by the municipality and county. If you move to an area where people are struggling, there isn't the same kind of money for services - and even if your housing is cheaper, you'll be paying a lot more in taxes since you might be going from "above average" to "really rich". Education and opportunity can also be a problem. Do you end up in an area where many have resorted to meth or opioids? Do you end up in an area where chronic unemployment is an issue? Again, this isn't people being bad or anything like that, but it can cause fear and resentment.
There was an article (which I can't find right now) about the unionization drive at an Alabama Amazon fulfillment center. Amazon came into a town that basically hadn't had jobs and everyone was living pretty poorly. The article interviewed some people and the sentiment came across as people thinking that the place was dying and even if they wanted a union, they didn't want to risk going back to a place that was a disaster.
In rural communities with flood risks, FEMA has bought and demolished properties rather than pay to rebuild them. This ends up gutting the tax base and leaves the community as a shell of itself. If the main store in your town and 5-10% of the houses get bought and demolished, you still have the roads, police, etc. to pay for with a dwindling tax base - and less reason for you to be there.
https://mtgis-portal.geo.census.gov/arcgis/apps/MapSeries/in...
Check out the census map and select "Population Change" and then zoom in one level so it shows counties. Many rural areas have lost 10-30% of their population over a decade. It isn't fun to be a part of a dwindling tax base. A lot of expenses don't go down as that tax base goes down.
Along with this, I'd argue that there's a brain/income/opportunity-drain in a lot of rural communities. People who are richer, have more education, and more access to opportunity are more likely to leave. Are you buying into a location where the future isn't on your side?
If you're thinking about the next 20-40 years of your life, I'd argue you need to think about climate change and whether the US will continue to subsidize rural life. If we're going to get serious about climate change, will that mean $10 gas? Even with electric cars, the cost will increase. Will we continue to spend a fortune on roads and other accommodations for rural life? The US spends a huge amount of money on rural telecom infrastructure our of taxes on urban areas. Will places like Amazon start differentiating shipping pricing? It's a lot cheaper for them to deliver in cities where the distance between stops is small. I don't expect anything extreme, but if things are getting 1% worse every year, that starts to add up.
All that said, I do think that there are some good rural communities in New England - Central/Western Massachusetts and Vermont especially. You'll find high educational attainment, a population that is relatively stable, access to decent towns and cities, and a liberal enough attitude that won't expect you to conform to the hegemony as much as many rural places. Many of the Western Mass towns even have municipal fiber. I think you'd find enough tech workers around.
Honestly, it's hard to say whether a place would be a good fit for you since I know almost nothing about you. Are you white, male, straight, Christian, etc.? A lot of rural places can become easier if you tick those boxes. If you don't tick those boxes, then you might start wondering how you might be treated differently from living in the city.
It's also hard to know what you mean by "rural" since the distinction between suburban and rural is hard in the US. In Europe, things drop off to farmland very quickly. In the US, things just sprawl with no clear distinction. Is Saratoga Springs, NY rural? It's certainly a bit far from things and might be the "pastoral" feeling you're looking for, but it still has stuff around. Likewise, there are plenty of locations with very few people that might be an hour from a city like Boston. Boxborough, MA is an hour from Boston while covered in forest. I'd think of it as "suburban", but it might the rural/pastoral feel you're looking for while still being within commutable distance to everything.
Maybe you're looking for a place like Saratoga Springs or Ashville, NC or Burlington, VT or Charlottesville, VA. I think those places could be really nice. I would caution about moving to an area that is seeing a lot of population decline that has a big lack of opportunity.
by solumos on 4/22/22, 8:38 PM