by maxmouchet on 4/10/22, 8:41 AM with 281 comments
by krylon on 4/10/22, 11:24 AM
Step by step, she would lure me all the way to the kitchen and give me a look said that, "Now that we are here anyway, how 'bout some of that food?". A bit manipulative, I admit, but kind of clever.
Also, I suspect cats tricked humans into starting agriculture so they (the cats) would have a steady supply of mice.
by IncRnd on 4/10/22, 9:55 AM
by unfocussed_mike on 4/10/22, 1:03 PM
We had cats when I was a kid, and I would observe that cats are very good at tracking prey, at opening doors or at getting humans to open them, at figuring out who is the boss, and at bearing very, very long term grudges, but otherwise they operate in a system where the world revolves around them (apparently quite literally in terms of how they map the world).
This utility-focussed view of the world means they always get fed, but it also leads them to get stuck when exploring -- never paying attention to the fact that the neighbour's garage door does not just open, it also closes, for example!
So I have tended to see them as well-optimised, intelligent, but not necessarily "bright".
But the cat-mirror-ears video -- where a cat sees a reflection in a mirror, apparently understands that it is its own reflection and then... realises it has ears... that changed my mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akE2Sgg8hI8
There is another "cat theory of mind" video where a mother cat purposefully and deliberately retrieves an object its kitten wants to play with, that scientists have talked about on twitter, but I can't find it.
A friend of mine has a cat that learned to play fetch as a kitten and never stopped playing. So unusual.
by coward123 on 4/10/22, 3:39 PM
by Stratoscope on 4/10/22, 10:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rROBUDPYI
I was playing with them with a bird wand toy and then I wanted to get back to work. So I wedged the toy's handle in the chair.
Tulie had studied how I operated the toy, and she decided to work it herself to keep Sephie entertained.
At one point the feathers got stuck on the chair, and Tulie figured out how to unstick them!
Then the dogs came by to get some water, and the cats were like "nothing to see here, move along now."
And then with the dogs out of the way, they got back to business.
by blacklion on 4/10/22, 11:10 AM
But as far as I know, she never regret her decision.
by rpmisms on 4/10/22, 2:53 PM
However, my dog is orders of magnitude smarter, and has taught herself:
- Lying. She barks "at the mailman" about 10 minutes before he arrives, so I'll put her out when he's in the area
- Mirrors. She understands that her reflection is only a reflection, and will look at herself to see if her fur is ruffled on her hindquarters
- Language. Dogs are often taught to communicate with buttons that trigger a word. The conventional wisdom is that it takes a dog about a week to learn to use them. She taught herself 5 separate buttons in 20 minutes, and uses them to this day, chaining them together to express her thoughts remarkably clearly. For example, she used "no" + "time for bed" in the morning when I hadn't refilled her water yet.
But that's why dogs are so popular: they're calibrated to our psyche. They understand human gestures incredibly well.
by paganel on 4/10/22, 11:27 AM
Also, our dog being a BC that means that, at times, he wants to herd our cat, after long bouts of staring at said cat. In response to all that the cat has invented and performed very smart avoidance techniques that he hadn't use with us before the BC came into our life (the cat was with us first, for about two years).
And that's just two quick things that sprung to my mind on learning the article, there are many others. There's also the misconception of "cats don't love/care about their owners" which is just a stupid stereotype.
by 2wrist on 4/10/22, 12:12 PM
After he passed, they now do this with my mum. In the mornings they will wake her up by licking her forehead, ever so gently.
I guess you can read in to their behaviour what you will, but to us it feels like empathy. Not sure what we would do without them.
by hownottowrite on 4/10/22, 9:56 AM
by steveBK123 on 4/10/22, 1:54 PM
* Phone ringing, getting on towards 3-4 rings
* Cat sprinting down the stairs, jumps up onto bookshelf and waits
* Cat listens to the machine pick up the caller and the message they leave
* Caller hangs up and the cassettes go all clickety-clack
* Cat then reaches with his paw around the bookshelf to smack the big blue button
* Message plays back again and is now marked read, light goes out, and no one knows we were left a message
Over the years we saw him do this a number of times! Once he hit the wrong button and overwrote the outgoing message with the sound of himself purring.
by andrewinardeer on 4/10/22, 12:14 PM
They generally do what they please when they decide to do so. And they know it. How many people in your household can say they have this unbridled freedom?
Once you realise that the cat(s) in your abode and life have the luxury to pick and choose their course of action, or lack of it, at their whim the more you understand that they rule and occasionally oversee and direct proceedings.
In my house the cat runs the show. Then my wife. Then my two dogs and then me. I'm sure others on here can relate.
by rollcat on 4/10/22, 10:36 AM
One of my cats wakes me up every day around 5-6AM to get food. She does so by making just enough noise to wake me up, but not my partner (she's doing it on my side of the bed, etc). She also does that when she's not hungry, but her sister is.
by jelliclesfarm on 4/10/22, 11:42 AM
What we now know as domesticated cats have extra special set of skills..they know how to create and retain memories. They understand reward based stimuli.
There has been enormous research done in the field of cat genetics. UC Davis leads with the cat genetics lab and esp for their work on cat coat genetics.
But we also know what genes changed and evolved for their intelligence as they morphed from feral to domestic.
The most relevant one to intelligence are glutamate receptors that aids learning and memory. Domesticated animals have evolved to developed more coat variations and pigmentations than wild animals. This is why you don’t find a calico tiger but not only are there calico cats, but we also know that their genes guarantee that almost all are also female. Male calicos are sterile and short lived.
It is in the area of cat coat genetics that UC Davis VGL has made enormous strides. There are five key traits that facilitate domestication and one of them is the wide variability in pigmentation/texture of coats.
Even though cats have been around humans, they were allowed to be ‘wild’ and have resisted the intense pressure to adapt for full on domestication.
In a way, they have been more useful in agrarian societies in their undomesticated state and largely due to their hunting instincts…..which once tamed and trained is no longer as effective. Hunting rodents is a far different job that herding docile domesticated sheep.
by vertnerd on 4/10/22, 12:59 PM
For years, my rescue cat has had an annoying habit of gently plucking at my clothes with her claws for no apparent reason. Then one day I had an epiphany. I discovered that scritching the top of her head made her stop plucking my clothes. Now she gets head scritches whenever she wants.
So from her perspective I am thoroughly stupid, yet capable of learning simple tricks given enough repetition and reinforcement.
by dspillett on 4/10/22, 10:13 AM
by ianai on 4/10/22, 9:42 AM
“Whereas dogs have been bred for utility, cats have been bred solely for appearance.”
My understanding was cats largely served as pest control from the human perspective. It’s probably why they continue to hunt even when well fed.
by derefr on 4/10/22, 5:07 PM
- Have you ever seen a "cat raised by dogs"? They develop the same mental schemas around socialization that dogs do; begin to understand the sort of "pack" structure and reward norms that dogs think in terms of; and so end up trainable exactly like dogs, using e.g. social-status gratification/reassurance as a substitute for food. And often, you won't actually have to explicitly train a "cat raised by dogs"; cats are seemingly highly skilled at modelling (i.e. witnessing others earning rewards for a behavior, and then self-motivatedly learning to mimic that behavior), and so a cat that hangs around trained dogs may teach themselves "tricks" it observes the dogs doing.
- Have you ever seen a cat taught human language using AAC (Augmentative and Alternative Communication) devices, a.k.a. "button training"? They can very quickly absorb human mental schemas, learning to not just to favor "using their words" to signal their needs, but also, through that, to begin modelling the world narratively, telling stories about what they witnessed other-person A doing to other-person B. If you communicate the terms "soon" and "later" to them, they will begin asking about the future, expressing a curiosity about whether events (e.g. a person coming home from work) will happen near or far in time. These are not things that cats seem to instinctively think about, until they have the mental schemas to think about them; but once they absorb these schemas, they do engage with these topics!
by ollifi on 4/10/22, 11:25 AM
I think human style intelligence we appreciate so highly is useful mostly in relation to other humans.
by rybosworld on 4/10/22, 5:25 PM
There was one cat who lived permanently at the clinic. She would be crated every night before we left. She would often get out of her crate and we'd find her roaming around the clinic the next morning. The cage required that you press two pins towards each other. It's surprising that she figured this out but also that she had the dexterity to reach outside the cage and do this.
She was one of the smartest animals I've ever interacted with. You could see the gears in her head turning when she wanted to figure something out.
by zabzonk on 4/10/22, 9:51 AM
by mft_ on 4/10/22, 11:00 AM
One of them has learnt to do basic tricks for treats, and has also learned to turn on two different robot hoovers by pressing the right button - she only does this late at night, which I take either as attention-seeking or just boredom? The other one is the Zoolander of cats.
Beyond this, they seem quite limited: sleep, eat, wander around, watch the world go by, occasionally hang out with us, sometimes play or hunt.
by djaychela on 4/10/22, 4:47 PM
by mytailorisrich on 4/10/22, 10:53 AM
For instance, my experience is that they can quickly understand the function of a door handle and even learn to operate it in order to open the door.
by lionkor on 4/10/22, 10:39 AM
> Other tests include the ability to learn and remember. Is the ability to learn by rote a sign of intelligence? If so, any avian mimic is intelligent.
I would argue this shouldnt just be dismissed like that. I would argue that mimicking is a sign of intelligence - The fact that a toddler can mimic an animal, even if that animal has vastly different anatomy, seems very intelligent. It suggests an understanding of the similarities between function of body parts, even if the form differs significantly. Why would an avian mimic not be a sign of significant intelligence, such as understanding vocalizations and how they happen? A bird rarely has to sit there for hours trying random sounds to mimic another sound, it understand and knows what to do, does it not?
by vmception on 4/10/22, 10:05 AM
But those sound boards that let pets communicate with words and concatenate have been okay at helping me move past our tests of intelligence. We cant even communicate with other humans that cant dont talk back or use fingers.
I’m also less convinced that human behaviors are not just reward seeking patterns chained together, so I cant dismiss a pet’s use of a sound board as just trained behavior for a treat - at least as a reason to dismiss their intelligence or weigh that action any way at all
I would say its evidence of understanding and that the animal is aware that they cannot use their vocal cords to respond to us and just give up trying that
by Razengan on 4/10/22, 10:59 AM
by dcdc123 on 4/10/22, 11:32 AM
[0] https://sciencenorway.no/ulv/wolf-packs-dont-actually-have-a...
by robwwilliams on 4/10/22, 4:18 PM
Appreciate with some reservations this lead:
“I personally consider these experiments cruel and gratuitous (their medical benefit to humans is too often dubious) and though some such experiments are referenced here, Messybeast.com does not support this form of experimentation.”
I understand the political context of starting this way, and as a cat lover it resonates too easily even with me.
But in essentially all western-eastern-northern-southern societies (modern or ancient) that routinely kill and eat such clever beasts as cows, pigs, monkeys, horses, sheep, goats, bunny rabbits, octopi, and all manner of birds, I wonder if “gratuitous and cruel” are the right words. And this wuestion is especially relevant when, as you admit, so much of your cool overview relies on that scientific work. This is cognitive dissonance at its best—-well intentioned but still unrooted. Too “woke” for me.
I would say no: You cannot have this particular cake and eat it too!
And definitely not true the this “gratuitous and cruel” work was either gratuitous and cruel or that it has not contributed greatly to clinical care of humans. It has. Half of what we know (a bit rhetorical) about brain plasticity and repair following brain damage comes from exactly this type of work.
It is intellectually disingenuous to be squeamish, even if a cat lover, if you then use these finding.
And if one is NOT also a strict vegetarian, then please stay silent—-you have no standing in this court of ethical conundrums.
by JoeAltmaier on 4/10/22, 5:25 PM
by Epiphany21 on 4/10/22, 4:04 PM
by chiph on 4/10/22, 11:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ChDCS_z2o
Her favorite word? Mad.
by OtomotO on 4/10/22, 12:06 PM
I was a biology nerd before I became an IT nerd and during my (non scientific) studies I found that many species are way more intelligent than what we give them credit for.
When I studied at university (discontinued, switched to IT) I also found evidence to underline some of my personal findings.
by can16358p on 4/10/22, 11:45 AM
by jsz0 on 4/10/22, 3:14 PM
by dghughes on 4/10/22, 2:44 PM
My cat knows when it's 9pm since that is treat time. She can be sound asleep but at 8:59pm I hear thump thump as she hops down from her sleeping spot. It's not that she is detecting me doing something. I watch streaming video at random times stopping and starting it. There is no obvious cue that I can think of that is allowing her to know the time. Not even sunlight is a cue since the light is wildly different here due to being on the 49th parallel and the seasons. She even adjusts for daylight savings and standard time but it takes about a week.
by ggm on 4/10/22, 10:08 AM
by squarefoot on 4/10/22, 6:32 PM
To me the sign that cats are definitely intelligent is their ability to make us think so whether they are or not:).
by diamondage on 4/10/22, 5:03 PM
by arwhatever on 4/10/22, 5:41 PM
When I would walk away, several times he would anticipate my path and run in front of me and lay down to block my path, apparently to receive some more affection.
I’ve had some super affectionate and at least not-dumb cats, but I was still really surprised by this guy’s apparent intentionality. And all for affection - it’s not like I’d had any cat treats on me to give him.
by anthomtb on 4/10/22, 6:00 PM
Interesting that female cats form more social, cooperative groups. I wonder if this explains why our female cat seems more sociable and human while our male cat is more aloof.
by taosx on 4/10/22, 3:14 PM
The first time I got scared cause I didn't want the mouse to get in the house and I didn't know who was knocking on the door but I think it was half-dead...oh yeah I forgot to mention that all the mice were still alive.
I'll never understand that behavior..she was well fed.
by praptak on 4/10/22, 6:34 PM
She would walk over and start talking - almost literally. Her trills and mews vere so varied in pitch and length that it sounded like speech. And she responded when we talked to her.
This made me feel dumb, because I obviously couldn't understand what she'd talk about. Well except that one time she detected a leak in the central heating and alerted me to it.
by eric4smith on 4/10/22, 12:50 PM
Anything else they are not very intelligent. Let’s not make cat videos confuse us.
by duckydude20 on 4/10/22, 1:41 PM
by userabchn on 4/10/22, 5:10 PM
by mouzogu on 4/10/22, 4:08 PM
It convinced me that cats are aware of themselves as reflections on a camera or mirror and are much smarter than I thought. To realise something was wrong with their owners face.
by astrostl on 4/11/22, 1:34 PM
ahahahahhaha this one from another part of the site is great. Love the content, love the '90s hypersimple design. I gave her a donation and she quickly sent me back a personal note.
by irrational on 4/10/22, 4:50 PM
by bredren on 4/10/22, 4:20 PM
I started leash training my cat at about 6 months and he is 4.5 years old now.
People are regularly astonished to see a cat content on a leash at all.
But what’s amazing is how much preference, analysis, and decision making you see a cat demonstrate when you spend so much time with them.
by blacklion on 4/10/22, 4:04 PM
Also, claim that cats are breed only for appearance is not completely true, in villages good rat-catchers will breed and not-so-good rat-catchers will have their litters drown.
by kwhitefoot on 4/10/22, 7:07 PM
This strikes me as a dubious statement. Or perhaps I am reading more into it than is really there. Perhaps it was true a hundred or more years ago, but now it seems to me that dogs are overwhelmingly bred for appearance.
by hbarka on 4/10/22, 4:44 PM
by gedy on 4/10/22, 6:12 PM
by midrus on 4/10/22, 3:02 PM
by airbreather on 4/10/22, 10:26 AM
by jokoon on 4/10/22, 3:17 PM
by dmix on 4/10/22, 4:16 PM
by ddaalluu2 on 4/10/22, 3:57 PM
It's so refreshing.
by reiichiroh on 4/10/22, 5:15 PM
by Liambp on 4/11/22, 10:32 AM
by Razengan on 4/10/22, 10:55 AM
by GWBullshit on 4/10/22, 5:51 PM
In some intelligence circles cats are referred to as "St. Up ID" aka "St. Uppity" because they always like to show your their asses ... almost as if they're begging for some sort of trophy or something.
On the other hand ... over time, cats have developed mice/Rat & human mind-altering poop:
https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/cat-poop-parasite-control...
... leading to incidents such as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4Y27RQaZk <== notice none of the cats manage to "eat The Rat" aka The Emperor: https://www.trendstees.com/product/emperor-pikachu-t-shirt/ ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bhDAJUk-vU
https://quinzo.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/shocking-german-bish...
Same video (shorter), with Russian comment-a-Ri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPK_ij0llc8 ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTt4k3lh9Gc
Here is another famous scene from Belgium: https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/cat-instant-karm...
So basically, cats poop, Ratz eats the SH!I.T. code, becomes fearless, cat attacks what it assumes is free food and learns a lesson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uSfLDuRtOM
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/the-nsas-spy-hub-in-new-...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZulOGB9yXlY <== starts off with "cocaine"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bv4KGhtFt4 <== Cocaine Marley fought with the Crips because she got jumped in; she's "Big Blue" ... has "Lincoln Tunnel-vision" and "rolls like a marble" ...
Early example of a PHD candidate's example of Ai: https://www.macintoshrepository.org/6008-sumo ... https://tenor.com/view/obviously-defective-tomax-xamot-gi-jo... ... unless you keep insisting on playing it ... then it gets harder exponentially quickly at the later levels ...
At "2:48" is the NSA/Se Cutey Ri's opinion of MSM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXKOIKBCC8c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS4RpBR0Zn0 https://giphy.com/gifs/IntoAction-eH4H6NP5XePcxnO6wU
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/oct/14/freedomofinfor...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fbi-reveals-its-suspicion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bortnikov#:~:text=Al....
http://thealexandernj.net/ Front view:
https://tenor.com/view/voltron-linkup-gettogether-gif-561031...
aka "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFN3l2NuoE0"
Top view from outer space: https://www.amazon.com/Lolita-Jeremy-Irons/dp/B00001IVFG
This is a random scene from the film: https://voltamagazine.wordpress.com/2020/11/02/decoding-the-...
This is a bizarre random movie theater closing of a place that had some great reviews on Yelp ... yet closed for "undisclosed business circumstances":
https://www.google.com/search?q=edgewater+multiplex+closing&...
https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-outer-worlds/the-outer-worlds-c...
It had great cheap ticket rates and even cheaper matinee rates ...
Unfortunately, messing around with the National "Se Cuty Ri" Agency is a very expensive proposition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPn82XZgTMA
https://tenor.com/view/super-milk-chan-anime-adult-swim-gif-...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQW2FFt3-A8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQvlx4LDqg
https://tenor.com/view/i-got-a-solution-idiocracy-solution-t...
https://www.google.com/search?q=donald+rumsfeld+smile&tbm=is...
This is what Donald Rumsfeld was trying to give endless clues about what "Pentagon" is a "Ran MAGA/Anagram/Spell-s-witch" about (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9169611/Rihann...):
https://www.yahoo.com/video/pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-...
https://tenor.com/view/destro-marvel-animated-such-bottomles...
by naoqj on 4/10/22, 9:36 AM