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Open Web Advocacy

by stack_framer on 3/1/22, 1:17 AM with 171 comments

• by jchw on 3/1/22, 1:38 AM

  This is easily my top complaint about iOS. It would be much less of a complaint if Apple would make use of the shiny silicon they added to their ARM chips and properly support VP8/9, Opus, WebM, etc. so that there are patent unencumbered codecs and formats that work across every browser.

  Literally only one major player is lagging here.

• by schappim on 3/1/22, 1:47 AM

  If you're in Australia, the ACCC is asking that you share your experience with either the Apple or Google market places via email[1]: digitalmonitoring@accc.gov.au

  This is part of the ACCC's 5-year ongoing inquiry in Digital Platform Services.

  [1] https://www.accc.gov.au/focus-areas/inquiries-ongoing/digita...

• by ______-_-______ on 3/1/22, 1:26 AM

  A few years ago, including a browser with your OS was an antitrust violation. What happened?

• by 1nverseMtx on 3/1/22, 2:00 AM

  The last thing I want is a webpage being able to access bluetooth, notifications or any sensor data. No, more permission dialogs is also not what I want.

• by aluminum96 on 3/1/22, 2:23 AM

  Apple has almost single-handedly held back the dream of native-quality experiences on the web.

  Want service workers to perform background sync? Want push notifications? Sorry, you're out of luck on iOS.

  It's a blatantly protectionist policy to make devs provide App Store apps, and it's harming the entire web platform.

• by dimensi0nal on 3/1/22, 1:35 AM

  hot take: the safari monopoly on ios is better than a chromium monopoly on all platforms

• by mtomweb on 3/1/22, 1:54 PM

  Hi, I’m Matthew Thomas. I set up the open-web-advocacy.org and am the primary author of the document.

  We don’t want this to be about personalities and want to focus on the problems at hand.

  Happy to answer questions and I hope some of you will join us in advocating a better future for the web.

• by searchableguy on 3/1/22, 1:41 AM

  You can write to https://www.cci.gov.in/feedback if you are in India.

• by e-dant on 3/1/22, 6:28 AM

  I have had plenty of problems making cross platform apps — and that’s my specialty and my niche, I do it every day. Not just cross platform, but across embedded devices, browsers, servers; truly cross platform.

  I have, instead, found the platforms most difficult to work with are 1. android for its heavy reliance on Java (which is not an appropriate language on plenty of embedded systems and on systems where efficiency means money), 2. windows for its poor system api and heavily restrictive marketplace, and 3. Apple for its heavily restrictive marketplace.

  Note, though, that none of this has to do with the web and web-like technologies. There is nothing stopping React or similar App frameworks from being deployed on mobile devices.

  And, for the record, there is legal precedent for app lockdowns like these. We don’t need more laws — we need to enforce the precedent we already have. Find a lawyer who can be convinced that Windows DirectX and ie are illegal tying arrangements… find a lawyer that could be convinced of the difference between Metal and OpenCL+OpenGL.

  That’s why we have these problems; it’s a lack of understanding from the departments responsible for prosecuting these illegal tying arrangements.

• by logicalmonster on 3/1/22, 2:50 AM

  The only company mentioned by name in your priorities is Apple.

  Your comments about Apple are valid of course, but to convey more credibility and eliminate accusations of astroturfing, you probably should list some issues with all of the big players. I’m sure you can find many issues with Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, and others.

• by KerrAvon on 3/1/22, 2:02 AM

  Where are the end users who are begging for more shitty web apps and a less secure computing experience?

• by Kibranoz on 3/5/22, 3:51 PM

  As much as I love the web I feel like there may be some problems. What would entail to allowing anything run on the web? Bluetooth, hardware, movement tracking api (creepy!!) are causing legitimate concerns.

  The web was meant to be an information sharing platform. To share information means that there was standards to be built. From these standards, came the possibility to make things that works everywhere, which explains the popularity of web apps.

  It may be tempting to push for more support in web standards, however the nature of the web platform give it vulnerabilities that wouldn’t exist in a native app.

  A native app is a piece of code. You can analyse it through antivirus, and the executable stay the same unless you choose to update it. (Electron apps allow app maker to update automatically, but they are not native apps, the chrome browser embedded is native but the only website it can access is not). A web app use multiple devices and is more uncertain. Service workers fetch information from a website and on a remote server, and that code would arrive on your computer without you actually consenting or realizing it. What if my website get attacked and suddenly my web app is loading a Bluetooth api that could access a connected object, like my smart car, my health device or other potentially dangerous stuff?

  Moreover, allowing alternative browser would allow developers to be less constrained by Apple, for the better, indeed, but also for the worst. If chrome decide to bring their chromium browser to iOS, Facebook could just delete it’s iOS app and put it as a chrome PWA, this would allow them to bypass the Apple Store restrictions.

• by mnot on 3/1/22, 4:27 AM

  This smells funny. It doesn't list any names, at all, and it only focuses on one issue -- Apple's browser restriction, which as others point out is a nuanced issue.

• by neither_color on 3/1/22, 1:59 AM

  At the very least if they want to ease into it they could start with opening up browsers for the iPad Pro. I'm one of those people who tries to replace his laptop with an ipad every few months and would greatly benefit from being able to run a full desktop browser with developer tools. I dont even need chrome just Chromium would help. iPad OS get incrementally better every year but it's years away from doing what it's capable of.

• by shmerl on 3/1/22, 2:44 AM

  Very long overdue issue which would have been a non issue if competition law would have actually worked instead of being so toothless.

  Not sure if telling legislators about it will make it any better. They'll say competition laws already exist. It's enforcing them that's a problem. May be someone should team up with EFF and file a major anti-trust case against Apple.

• by Aaronn on 3/1/22, 2:58 AM

  Advocates for openness and yet uses Discord to communicate. Ugh.

• by micromacrofoot on 3/1/22, 1:36 AM

  I'd be happy with basic PWA support, it's taken years.

• by ogazitt on 3/1/22, 3:36 AM

  It would kind of be nice to understand who is behind this. Where's the repo where the website is built from? Who are the devs in the organization? Otherwise, it just feels like an advocacy site for a large company that is not Apple.

• by vincentmarle on 3/1/22, 1:45 AM

  Not sure if I understand the issue (or it’s just been poorly explained): last time I checked I can still install alternative browsers like Chrome and Firefox. And I can still save web apps as “bookmarked app icons”.

• by rooshdi on 3/1/22, 5:50 AM

  What if there's an other opening .......

• by Shadonototra on 3/1/22, 1:36 AM

  Web devs?

  Who exactly? they just created 6 tweets in 1 hour and now they are "web devs"? they shounds like PR people, probably mozilla?

  This is fishy af

• by chkhd on 3/1/22, 2:06 AM

  > The entire future of Application Development is at stake.

  Since when does application development equal web application development? this is a narrow-minded view.

  > stalled innovation for the past 10 years and prevented Web Apps from taking off on mobile.

  I may be in the minority but, as a user, web apps on mobile is the last thing I need. Also, as a developer web apps as a preferred way of developing for mobile is the last things I need.

  > Web Apps if allowed can offer equivalent functionality with greater privacy and security for demanding use-cases.

  This really needs some sources. To me, it reads like something akin to a snake oil ad piece right now.

• by stupidfuckers on 3/1/22, 2:29 AM

  I hate Safari because it holds me back from doing all kinds of stuff like importing css files with import statements, making web component-based forms work the same as standard forms, etc, etc.