from Hacker News

I reject both parties’ ideas of Americanism. And I’m not the only one

by steelstraw on 2/16/22, 12:14 AM with 38 comments

• by m348e912 on 2/16/22, 12:22 AM

  Agreed, I find myself out of alignment with major party platforms, their associated manipulation, and their blatant dishonesty and self-interest. If I vote now, it's for individuals, their platform, and not necessarily the party.

• by EdwardDiego on 2/16/22, 2:03 AM

  Still blows my mind that voters _register_ party allegiances in the US.

• by dekhn on 2/16/22, 12:23 AM

  Welcome to being a centrist, the largest and most ignored political party in america.

• by dtjb on 2/16/22, 5:30 AM

  Seems a bit silly that the author dedicates an inch of column space to the perils he sees would "destroy the foundation of the republic," then dedicates the remaining article equating this existential danger to relatively low-stakes[1] cancel culture panic.

  [1] https://michaelhobbes.substack.com/p/moral-panic-journalism?...

• by fuzzfactor on 2/16/22, 7:03 AM

  If you consider the parties which have proven their incompetence, you have to include Democrats & Republicans.

• by tomatotomato37 on 2/16/22, 2:54 AM

  I really wish we could divorce economic policy from purely social issues. There's no reason my stance on guns or religion or whatever should force me to also align with the party line on how high I think taxes should be. Where are the socialists who believe the government should tax the rich to give every citizen a gun & a bible, or the laissez-faire folks who want to eliminate war, violence, and bigotry because it's not as profitable?

• by AnimalMuppet on 2/16/22, 12:35 AM

  I agree in general. I disagree with this one bit:

  > It seems self-evident that the Republican Party — more a celebrity fan club than a political organization at this point — would, if left to its own devices, destroy the foundation of the republic.

  This does a tremendous dis-service to the Republicans (including Mike Pence!) who refused to go along with Trump's lies and machinations. There were far too few of them, but they were there, and it really mattered that they were there.

  Though I guess if you take the party as a whole, the statement may be accurate, or at least may have been so a year ago.

  But I thought this was an interesting insight:

  > In their zeal to beat back Trumpism, the loudest Democratic groups have transformed into its Bizarro World imitators.

  There is some symmetry there that I hadn't noticed.

• by jqpabc123 on 2/16/22, 12:29 AM

  The country needs a viable 3rd party.

  With a 3rd party, cooperation becomes just as important (if not more so) than conflict.

• by heybecker on 2/16/22, 2:00 AM

  I'm pretty sure democracy is just another layer of control in the Matrix

• by atoav on 2/16/22, 8:54 AM

  As an european I always found it astounding how easily the US voters let themselves be split into voting just two parties.

  I know this is a systemic issue of the chosen representative models — but the outrage it would produce in Europe if the person with a fewer number of absolute votes would win would be absolutely of the charts. In the US it is more like a "unfortunate, but what can you do" type of reaction.

  Looking at the current state of the US democracy worrying about the parties visions of "americanism" seems downright naive given that one of the parties seems to be in the process of trying to get rid of the democratic vote altogether.

  As an Austrian living in Germany I can't help but thinking of the Weimar Republic before the Nazis came to power. Stories about people bashing the social democrats back then, with the Nazis rising on the horizon. Nazis setting fire to the Reichstag and blaming it on the communists. I said that Trump was a fascist back when he was elected and most US commenters would tell me I was paranoid, delusional etc. I told them that I was not sure if this guy would go peacefully if he lost the next election and I was right on the money. The problem right now is that Trump is not the only fascist in the republican party. Of course there is also true believers in democratic principles in the GOP, but they seem to be in the minority.

  Given those thoughts I wonder whether the US has the freedom right now to complain about the vision of the one party that still stands for democratic principles not aligning a 100% with their own ideas. Personally I'd rather vote for a 1000 regulations I absolutely hate, implemented by people I absolutely despise than voting for someone who could potentially get rid of me being able to vote in the future.

  Once you lose the right to vote, you won't have the possibility to alter that choice anymore. I always perceived US citizens as people who valued democracy above petty party politics, bit I am not sure about that now.

• by jleyank on 2/16/22, 2:20 AM

  Keep in mind one can vote because you believe in the candidate's position, or you have concerns for one or more parties's positions and so vote defensively. Remember, if you don't vote you voted for the winner.

  Anybody who could not tell what the effect of picking or not picking Trump in 2016 would be should question their moral compass or mental acuity. It was pathetically obvious how social/moral matters would be handled with each option.