by leifg on 2/3/22, 4:01 PM with 18 comments
by dustyquince on 2/3/22, 10:59 PM
The real issue with the article happens here: 'It should rather be: “Is it worth it?”. I answer this question with a clear: Hell no.' But it's anything but clear. The article treats it as an accepted truth that the benefit isn't proportional to the cost. It's not an accepted truth. Millions of people have determined that the value of what PoW blockchains do is worth using some energy to make it happen. Does the author derive a great deal of value from the Bitcoin blockchain? Clearly not. So don't use it. Just because one doesn't derive any benefit from a particular use of energy doesn't imply that nobody does or that nobody should. There are exajoules of energy used to do things that I derive 0 value from. I use energy in a manner that many would consider to be frivolous. There's no objective function to determine the utility of a particular use of energy. Should the costs be borne by the same people who derive the benefit? Absolutely. Should we treat as implicitly accepted that a particular use of energy is frivolous and should be stopped? Not if you care about your own ability to use energy to do things you think are valuable.
by aeternum on 2/3/22, 6:48 PM
Here's the fallacy. We will never hit 100% energy shortage. It's all about equilibrium. Throughout history energy prices on the whole have declined and continue to decline precipitously. Especially from when trees were our primary energy source.
by throwaway22032 on 2/4/22, 12:35 AM
The theoretical economics idea seems to be that it's some sort of voting system. But it's a voting system in which I have a thousand times more votes than someone else.
If a fairly well off person thinks that X is worth doing, they have an outsized say in whether we use energy on X. And probably, if X has anything to do with business or investment, this advantage accumulates.
I agree with the article in principle as a result of the above argumentation but I'm still not convinced that it leads us to a situation in which Bitcoin is somehow something special. You could make the same argument for essentially anything that has market demand.
If you're going to have some central planning actor decide that Bitcoin is a waste of energy then I don't see how you can avoid the conclusion that me taking a holiday is, that plastic fidget spinners are, etc etc.
You end up in the coronavirus 2020 "what is essential" situation really quickly.
I sometimes wonder if there's a misgiving that Bitcoin is somehow set up to eventually use "all energy". This is incorrect, because the amount of mining that will occur is governed by transaction fees. Logically a person is never going to spend 100% of their wealth on simply transferring bitcoin from one place to another.
by jerry1979 on 2/3/22, 6:56 PM
I think most people want to prevent emissions, but the following line of argumentation is getting old:
Green energy? Not good enough.
Stranded energy? Not good enough.
Stranded green energy? Not good enough.
by walkhour on 2/4/22, 9:48 AM
Bitcoin uses less energy than completely useless things (like Christmas lights) and way way way less energy than actual harmful things (videogames). However we just can't stop taking about how harmful Bitcoin is to the environment and if anyone suggested banning gold for similar reasons they would simply be laughed out of the room.
Honestly it looks like there are no good Bitcoin externalities that can be pointed out, so let's just zero in into this one, however inconsistent we'll be towards other industries.
by smoldesu on 2/3/22, 4:05 PM
by troon-lover on 2/4/22, 1:29 AM
To the author: you should be ashamed of yourself for not mentioning or acknowledging the well formed reasons and longform discussions of the early bitcoin community. You also seem to be unaware of their point.