from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to negotiate salary with a remote distributed company?

by slyzmud on 12/19/21, 8:11 PM with 39 comments

• by e1g on 12/19/21, 10:03 PM

  I run a US-based startup with a relatively small budget and hire developers in "low-cost" countries. I expect to pay $70k-$100k for a regular competent developer and more for a solid self-motivated developer. If the company is legitimate, they can afford $90k++. Try to speak directly with whoever would be your manager - if you can demonstrate to them that you're a) good b) excited to work on their problems, and c) require zero babysitting (as a senior person), they'll override whatever silly numbers HR put on the form.

  $45k is beyond silly; it's disrespectful for senior talent, regardless of where they live. If the manager holds the same line as HR, consider yourself lucky as that company is not where you'd want to work.

• by toomuchtodo on 12/19/21, 10:24 PM

  Take the higher than your current salary offer, they’ve already demonstrated how they value work and those who perform it (by geography).

  Super interesting work is overrated compared to maximizing comp. Money buys opportunities and freedom. Optimize for comp and quality of life. Lots of inspiration in that regard in this recent Ask HN thread [1].

  (i do the same and would not give advice I don’t practice myself)

  [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29614095

• by rubyist5eva on 12/19/21, 9:42 PM

  Tell them what you want, tell them you have another offer, if they say no - Walk away. It really is pretty simple.

• by renewiltord on 12/20/21, 9:04 AM

  Negotiating in this situation is very easy:

  - Make what you want claer. "I really like the sound of your company and your team. The only thing that is stopping me is that the offer is far lower than I would like. I was hoping for $x/year in total compensation". If you have base, bonus, stock expectations mention that

  - Make it clear you are able to negotiate if you are ("I can go down to $y/year if I have a clear growth path to $x/year") and that you are not going to negotiate if not ("That is the minimum I am willing to accept")

  - Be prepared to walk politely. "Thank you for the interview. I enjoyed meeting the team. Ultimately, I talked to many good teams and had to choose one." You can optionally mention which one you're going to go with and mention that you are open to talking in a couple of years.

  Remember that this is an iterated game. If you failed to negotiate this time, you may succeed a different time. A lot of people on the Internet have poor social skills and will advise you to do certain things. Here are some common pitfalls that you can fall into:

  - People will tell you to be vindictive. "Actually, this is so low it's disrespectful. Never talk to me again"

  - People will tell you to sell yourself. "I have done X, Y, and Z. I deserve $x". That part is over. It won't matter here.

  - People will you to rub it in their face. "Actually, I got a better offer from A so now you know what I'm worth".

  Comp negotiations are very easy and directness will benefit you. A pre-existing offer raises your BATNA. You're in good shape. Remember that you always have to be prepared to choose the BATNA or it is not a BATNA.

• by burntoutfire on 12/21/21, 8:34 AM

  Just say - "I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense for me to take a 50% pay cut to change a job. If anything, changing job comes with many risks, and I would expect a pay increase to compensate for that". If they really want you, they'll budge. If they don't (they believe you're easily replaceable with someone else in the hiring pipeline), there's nothing you can say to change their mind. (This is under assumption that you've sold yourself well during the interview and they are already aware of the full value you can bring to them.)

  I'm also from a low-cost country, and recently got a new remote job paying upwards of $150k, using exactly the technique I described above. They just didn't have alternatives, and knew that similar people to me probably wouldn't work for much less anyway.

• by poulsbohemian on 12/19/21, 10:46 PM

  Don't waste anymore of your time. Smart companies pay for quality talent regardless of location. Could be they deliberately low balled just to get you to expose your number - which tells you right there that they just view you as a number. Lots of employers in the world, if you believe in yourself you'll find one that respects your talent.

• by rajacombinator on 12/19/21, 10:32 PM

  Just say no. Low ballers are scum and cannot be tolerated.

• by Matthias247 on 12/20/21, 4:17 AM

  I agree with the others: Just tell them once that you already have a higher offer that they need to meet - and if they don't bug then stop wasting your time and walk away.

  Consider that your problem will also not just be the initial offer. If you are considered above market rate in the company you will never get any raise, and just be stuck with what you originally agreed on.

• by teeray on 12/20/21, 4:12 AM

  “I’d love to work for you because the work is super interesting, and the team sounds great. However, I’m having difficulty finding my way to accepting your offer because doing so would cause significant hardship from taking such a drastic pay cut. I currently have another offer from a company for $99k, but I feel that I could offer greater impact at your organization. Is there anything we could do to make this decision easier for me?”

  The collaborative approach is usually the best one to negotiation. People want to help and solve problems, and that includes the recruiter. This hits all the points you made while giving them a solution to the “problem” you pose on a silver platter.

• by yuppie_scum on 12/19/21, 8:26 PM

  See if you can string along the hiring manager. It’s so hard to hire right now they may be pretty desperate. Get him or her all worked up and excited. Then when it becomes obvious that the budget is the only thing standing between him/her getting some sorely needed help or not, he or she will be very sympathetic and probably spend some time pleading on your behalf with the powers that be.

  Of course some companies are just never going to “get it” and they’ll all end up suffering as a result.

• by jbms on 12/20/21, 1:16 PM

  This is now complex as there's two parties.

  Maybe the company would pay you more but the recruiter either:

  - told them you're cheap, mistakenly or not

  - wants to get you in cheap so they get follow on work

  - doesn't know you expect a lot more

  - is getting a bonus if they find suitable cheaper candidates

  - doesn't yet know what you're telling us and so hasn't passed on the feedback on the poor offer.

  - would be happy to fight for higher pay as they're paid a % of your annual rate.

• by hlbjhblbljib on 12/20/21, 1:23 AM

  What kind of "staff engineer" is only making 90k annually? (genuinely curious where this would happen)

• by intricatedetail on 12/20/21, 2:03 AM

  > to work there because the work is super interesting and would look very well in my resume.

  If a prospective company do due diligence they will likely find out you worked below market rate and use that to lowball you. You would have to give a good justification why you are worth paying 2x more.

• by keyanp on 12/20/21, 12:36 AM

  Sounds like your market value is ~100k, because that is your top offer. If you show them your top offer and they won't match it, well nothing else will convince them either. Personally I'd ask them to match and be willing to walk away and accept the higher offer.

• by codegeek on 12/19/21, 9:59 PM

  If you were already making double of 45K which I assume is 90K, wouldn't you have discussed that upfront with the recruiter first before doing the interviews ? That is a huge gap for you to try and address AFTER the initial interviews.

• by dyeje on 12/21/21, 2:39 PM

  If that's their compensation philosophy then it seems unlikely they will come up. I recommend talking about comp early in the interview process (ideally the first call) to avoid these scenarios.

• by 2bor-2n on 12/22/21, 6:23 AM

  A question for OP, is this 45k would be your net salary or tax cut will be applied to it later?

• by visox on 12/19/21, 10:21 PM

  sounds like a joke so maybe treat it as such

• by somenewaccount1 on 12/20/21, 3:51 AM

  Just tell them the truth - your wife decided to prostitute herself to make up the difference and now you can take their generous offer of 60% lower than market rate!

  /S

  You will not work on interesting things, you will be shit on from every angle at that job, I guarantee. Consider a bullet dodged.

  If you insist on making bad decisions in life.... I would send them a thank you for the generous offer. You will compare with your current comp (screenshot bank deposit), and other offers (letter attached with company name whited out), and with additional offers I expect later in the week. I will be in contact no later than Friday if this works out to be the best opportunity. Thank you for you and your teams time, You.

  Be sure to CC any hiring managers if you can (check interview invites). If they actually want you for a valued position, they will apologize and correct the offer. If they just want someone to pee on, they won't.