from Hacker News

Kinesis Advantage 360

by ndrake on 12/17/21, 5:07 PM with 329 comments

  • by rangersanger on 12/17/21, 7:26 PM

    I picked up a Kinesis a few month ago and it's been a life changer. I've struggled with shoulder pain since as far back as I can remember. I'd done PT, dry needling, massage, etc etc. I'd even sprung for a personal ergonomic assessment. I'm a cyclist and and keyboard jockey, so most of my waking life is spent in positions that seemed to make it worse. At times it prevented me from sleeping, doing things I enjoyed, etc. I wear a 42 jacket, so I'm not crazy wide or anything.

    I'd never seen anything that suggested that split keyboards were a good solve for the shoulder pain but I'd reached that point of just throwing shit at a wall because it was that, or find a new career and hobbies. Moving my keyboard so my forearms can sit slightly wider than perpendicular to my chest has almost completely resolved the shoulder pain and the impact was almost immediate.

  • by tylermenezes on 12/17/21, 7:16 PM

    In addition to all the comments from Advantage fans here, I also wanted to add that Kinesis has been an awesome company. I tweeted about some mods I made to my Advantage keyboard a long time ago, and they invited me to their office and donated a bunch of keyboards to the nonprofit I work for, to give as prizes to students (even before they launched the gaming-focused brand).

  • by lgleason on 12/18/21, 1:47 AM

    I have been a Kinesis user for 8 years, starting with an Advantage USB, added a classic PS2(with a usb adapter) as a backup and then was a tester for the Advantage 2 which I ended up buying. A company I worked for gave me a choice for keyboards when I joined so I tried a Ergodox EZ with the RGB backlighting.

    General observations:

    1. Overall I prefer the Advantage over the Ergodox. The big reason is the contoured design and the fact that the Ergodox tends to walk around unless you have a solid desk pad underneath it. Also, the Ergodox never felt as comfortable as the Advantage. Yes the Advantage is not as easy to travel with but still.... 2. I like the new design, but there are a few things that would have made the pro perfect. PBT backlit keycaps like they offer on the Ergodox-EZ and RGB backlighting...and maybe a set of f-keys (on the fence with the last one).

    One other thing... A mix of o-rings and QMX clips made a huge difference with the feel of the keyboard for me. I have been a cherry brown user from the beginning though and different people have different preferences with that.

    Kinesis is also really good about providing parts and service. I've had them send me replacement switches and have seen them offer up in-expensive replacement boards to repair and keep older models going.

    I'm going to buy one of these, but given that I already have 4 high quality mechanical keyboards and I have yet to have one die I am starting to feel guilty having all of these laying around. That said there is a side of me that is curious about the Keyboard.io :)

  • by MrPowers on 12/17/21, 6:15 PM

    Kinesis Advantage 2 is great, but it's massive and hard to travel with. Looks like the 360 might be a bit easier to travel with.

    The Kinesis Advantage 2 fits a Magic Trackpad perfectly right in the middle of the keyboard. This lets you perform mouse actions with you right and left hands.

    Emacs keybindings never made sense to me till I tried them with the Kinesis. I feel like Emacs sucks on a standard Mac keyboard and is awesome with a Kinesis. See here for a blog post on the topic if you're interested in learning more: https://mungingdata.com/emacs/learning-emacs-keybindings-aft...

    It takes a while to get used to the keyboard layout, but only takes a week to get fully productive. You're eventually able to train your brain to operate fluently on Kinesis & Macbook key layouts without any extra thinking. It's a great investment if you're willing to put in a bit of effort.

  • by inquist on 12/17/21, 6:29 PM

    FWIW I've been quite happy with the ZSA Moonlander https://www.zsa.io/moonlander

  • by alasdair_ on 12/17/21, 9:34 PM

    Holy shit finally!

    I have been using the Kinesys Advantage (and the LF version with Cherry MX Reds instead of Browns) for many many years. I love it but have always wanted a split version because my shoulders are too wide and I have to pull my arms in to type (like every other non-split keyboard out there).

    I spent a long time looking at building a custom 3d-printed keyboard of my own but trying to find just the right keycaps (they are not all the same size) that would work with the scooped layout was tough.

    I can't find it right now but there was at least one person who cut their Advantage in half and wired each side together with a long cable. It was cool that it worked, but it looked janky as hell and seemed like a good way to accidentally break a $350 keyboard.

    I'm so glad this is a thing!

  • by db65edfc7996 on 12/17/21, 6:32 PM

    Sadly, no dedicated F-row. I would even settle for a subset of keys that aligned with the columns. I do not consider layers an adequate replacement.

    Happy to see they are moving away from their own software configuration. Not a fan of the software interface on the Freestyle Pro. More than once I have gotten myself into a loop where I am unsure which function mode is activated and how to switch back to what I want.

    I am still likely to get this once it is out, but still not the "end game" keyboard of my dreams.

  • by gbrown_ on 12/17/21, 6:56 PM

    It's a shame they couldn't get hot-swapable switches to work [1]. I have an ErgoDox with MX Browns which hasn't seen the light of day for a while. If I were to make a large outlay again on a keyboard I'd want to buy with the switches I now know I want or no switches and fit them myself. TBH I could take a soldering iron to my ErgoDox I just haven't had the motivation.

    As an aside I've always wondered why the Katana60 [2] didn't have much interest as it seemed like a reasonable regular to full ergo in-between and IMHO more comfortable than something like a Planck. Though whilst I have tried the Plank I've not actually tried the Katana60 IRL. Looking forward to keyboard meetups again the post COVID future.

    [1] https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1470446358372896772

    [2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/katana60_keyboard.html

  • by ninkendo on 12/17/21, 8:41 PM

    What does the keyboard layout look like? Every single picture of the keyboard on this site shows either a tiny section of the keyboard where you only see like 4 keys, or there's one picture that shows the whole thing, but it's super tiny and you can't read the keys.

    Does it have a decent mac layout? Is cmd+tab easy to type? Is copy/paste ergonomic? I have no idea because the pictures don't show it, and scrolling around on their site is awful (you can't quickly scan around because of the stupid animations taking 2 seconds for pictures to pop in even if you're quickly scrolling past.)

  • by bllguo on 12/17/21, 8:59 PM

    This looks cool, I'm glad split contoured boards are becoming more accessible. Shame about the switch options though.

    Also, plug for the yet unreleased Glove80 https://www.moergo.com/, as someone who prefers low-profile switches.

  • by tifadg1 on 12/17/21, 6:03 PM

    So this looks like an updated kinesis advantage 2 - added bluetooth, more ergonomy options.

    Kinesis advantage 2 helped me deal with carpal tunnel syndrome and forced to learn 10 finger typing, among other things.

    As someone interacting with the pc for 8+ hours, this is easily the most impactful 450 Eur I've ever spent.

  • by dave_sid on 12/17/21, 6:25 PM

    Kinesis Advantage keyboards saved my career. I had bad carpal tunnel syndrome. I tried evening out there. This is the only thing that remotely worked.

  • by jakub_g on 12/17/21, 9:19 PM

    Semi-related:

    I've had a basic ergo keyboard (MS sculpt ergonomic) for a while and it's much much better than regular keyboards;

    However I think all ergo keyboard companies are missing the point those days:

    "Just-a-keyboard" doesn't cut it anymore in the world of laptops. I want an ergonomic keyboard with a built-in Macbook-class touchpad, or ThinkPad-class trackpoint + three buttons. (I know it's tricky, especially with split keybord; conceptually it feels it almost can't be done).

    Unfortunately most of software those days has pretty limited functionality if you want to use it 100% with a keyboard only. And no matter what best keyboard you have, adding a trackpad or mouse to it is just clunky and slows you down due to endless context-switching.

    Are there any examples of ergo keyboard with built-in pointing device? I never found any.

  • by qq4 on 12/17/21, 6:48 PM

    I was getting hand fatigue from my laptop keyboard and decided to look into split keyboards. I tried a variety of Kinesis keyboards but I didn't like the build quality or inconsistency in features between models. I ended up settling with the Mistel MD770 which is a compact split keyboard in a traditional QWERTY layout. I found that was all that was really needed. I still use my laptop a ton, but I switch it up just enough with the split one to keep fatigue at bay. This goes the same for using a trackball with my left hand and a mouse with my right.

    At the end of the day the solution for me is to move in different ways and to build strength to combat fatigue. The trouble to adapt to Dvorak or curved, exceptionally ergonomic layouts isn't worth it for me, nor is the cost.

  • by dsr_ on 12/17/21, 6:28 PM

    I don't understand the surrounding decisions.

    Differentiating by wired/wireless makes sense.

    Using two different programming systems? No.

    ZMK instead of adding BT support to QMK? Why?

    RGB underglow but not individually programmable key backlights?

    For the money they are charging, all of these things should have been extremely easy decisions. Anyone have insight?

  • by frou_dh on 12/17/21, 6:11 PM

    Split with major tenting is cool:

    https://kinesis-ergo.com/wp-content/uploads/Adv360-Pro-Asymm...

    I've already settled on my "endgame" desktop keyboard in the Matias Ergo Pro though. Don't like layouts that stray too far from ANSI.

  • by nickm12 on 12/18/21, 7:11 AM

    This is one of the most frustrating product pages I've ever seen. All I want to see is high resolution photos of the keyboard from the top and back. The top view image is 400x300 pixels. The design looks nice, but not having function keys is a major turn-off. This is a keyboard for professionals, it should have a full complement of keys.

    Edit: Found the large picture via url hacking! https://kinesis-ergo.com/wp-content/uploads/Adv360-Overhead_...

  • by VectorLock on 12/17/21, 5:54 PM

    I've been waiting a long time for this and getting hyped at their Twitter drip feed but damn preorders open December 20th for potential delivery in MAY.

  • by pen2l on 12/17/21, 5:48 PM

    Oh, finally a big keyboard manufacturer has the cojones to move Capslock away from prime keyboard space.

    I have Advantage keyboard and usually wrote off physically separated keyboards, but thinking more about it now, I do wish my Advantage's two splits were angled a liiiittle more. So, I'll probably get this 360.

    I do hope however that us_intl layout becomes more widespread and the AltGr modifier key is universally present in US keyboards without having to set it up.

  • by dmm on 12/17/21, 6:32 PM

    I recently replaced the controller on my advantage2 to support qmk[0]. Using multiple layers lets me avoid the tiny rubber f-keys and move the arrow keys to hjkl along with a few other tweaks.

    I wish kinsis would make qmk support a default option. Custom layouts and layers are just too useful for me to give up.

    [0] https://github.com/kinx-project/kint

  • by zeeb on 12/17/21, 6:09 PM

    Very similar vibes to the dactyl, if you're feeling handy and interested in a little DIY...

    https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

  • by jerlam on 12/17/21, 5:58 PM

    I like how they added inboard macro keys. It was odd before how the Advantage had all this programming capability but you had to come up with some new keystrokes.

    Is it me or the price difference between the two makes the Pro model a no-brainer? Wireless, backlighting, better keycaps, and better programming model for only $40 more?

  • by DerSaidin on 12/17/21, 11:00 PM

    https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1471885389329666048

    > How many: 360

    Good luck getting one in this first drop.

  • by sickcodebruh on 12/18/21, 1:25 AM

    Wow! This looks fantastic.

    I’m a big fan of this company and their products. My Advantage 2 just broke this week. I had a really great exchange with their support today, we went from initial contact to replacement part shipped VERY quickly over just a couple emails. I’m not particularly bothered by it breaking — I have a spare and I appreciate that they can just send me a new cable assembly and call it a day. If I was on the market for something portable, I’d pickup this new one in a heartbeat.

  • by CarVac on 12/17/21, 6:20 PM

    I cannot fathom why the Kinesis keyboards don't have thumb shift by default.

    At least it's customizable.

  • by LinearEntropy on 12/18/21, 7:09 AM

    I must be the only person on HN that dislikes my Kinesis Advantage 2. I bought one in 2021 after the ZSA Moonlander didnt quite meet my expectations. While the keywell idea is amazing, i found that the two halves of the keyboard weren't angled towards each other enough and I still had very painful ulnar deviation.

    This wasn't helped by it being so far off the keyboard tray. I don't understand how someone can use the Advantage 2 without a standing desk. Even with a keyboard tray I am unable to sit my feet flat on the ground without my thighs and knees smashing into the tray the whole time.

    I ended up buying a custom board for it to run QMK, as well as replacement thumb cluster keys to try lower their height as they also caused pain. These both helped a bit but thanks to their store being closed due to Covid, I had to buy off a distributor in NZ that charged the equivelent of 500USD, before spending even more on the mods done. Unfortunately ive gone back to the Moonlander as I can at least angle the boards more after wasting around $1000 NZD.

    While this will solve the positioning of the keys, the height looks like it will still be an issue for me.

  • by dotancohen on 12/18/21, 9:49 AM

    No function keys! Why?

    This keyboard is obviously marketed at people who spend considerable time typing. When I'm in VIM I never use the Function keys, but every other serious productivity app - from Jetbrains IDEs to Microsoft Excel to Photoshop makes heavy use of them, often with modifiers. All of these cases now become triple- or quadruple- buckies on keyboards that require holding a layer key to access the Function keys.

  • by porker on 12/17/21, 10:14 PM

    Has anyone seen a printable mockup for this keyboard layout yet? I've found (1) invaluable for ruling out which layouts are too large for my hands e.g. the Moonlander. This keyboard looks excellent - but I want to make sure I won't be overstretching if I get it.

    1. https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/

  • by jeffs4271 on 12/18/21, 2:47 AM

    Nice. I've been a Kinesis user for 25 years. In the 90s I added the Silicon Graphics PS/2 driver to IRIX and I had a budget for testing. I had an RSI problems. I spent most of the budget on a a Kinesis and a data hand. It has been great for helping me manage my RSI issues. Still a process to manage it.

    I do have an ErgoDox to really try first. Know it is an adjustment. But it is hard not to try this...

  • by ropeladder on 12/18/21, 2:33 AM

    I've started having problems with trigger finger (can't bend fingers in to make a fist) in both my right and left hands. Has anyone fixed this sort of problem with a new keyboard/mouse? I always hear about ergonomics in relation to carpal tunnel and wrist issues, but there is very little info (evidence or even advertising claims) about finger health.

  • by almog on 12/18/21, 12:19 AM

    I've using a Kinesis Advantage for 10 years now. I got my Kinesis after switching to Dvorak, which maybe (maybe) improved my typing speed, but more importantly — I had to re-learn how to type, and get rid of all the quirks that come with learning how to type by yourself very early in one's life.

    That is to say, it made the transition to Kinesis Advantage a breeze.

    I cannot speak for how its ergonomic might or might not translate into helping with RSI, but having constant back/neck/other joints pains since I was 15, one change that I introduced to my (variable height) desk last year was, at least for me, more dramatic than any other: I installed a keyboard drawer, which enable me to align my Mirra's arm rest with the keyboard (my desk and most other variable height desks do not go low enough to allow that).

    The Advantage 360 could improve my setup as and I might get it just to be able to rest my arms at my shoulders natural width, which for me should be slightly wider than the regular Advantage.

  • by User23 on 12/17/21, 11:21 PM

    If you hold up your empty hand you will find that your thumb can comfortably oppose any of your other four fingers in a pincer grip. This suggests that a board should have at least four keys that can be pressed with the thumb while the fingers type without any strain whatsoever.

    My ideal keyboard would be shaped to accommodate the neutral state of the hand. Hitting modifier and a key should feel as comfortable as a natural pincer grip. I certainly don’t want to use my weakest finger to hold a modifier key, even if it’s on the home row. I’d try to squeeze a fifth thumb key in if it could be ergonomic, so as to have control, meta, super, shift, and space all on the thumb.

    The Kinesis Advantage 2 comes closer than any other board I’ve used. I’m not entirely satisfied with the lack of adjustability of the thumb cluster though. Not everyone has the same size hands after all. It’s fairly comfortable at lap level though.

  • by GiorgioG on 12/17/21, 11:17 PM

    I love my Kinesis Advantage. I go back and forth between it and my other non-ergo keyboards (at the moment it's a DasKeyboard). Somehow I managed to lose the CTRL keycap while the Kinesis was storage in my attic. I emailed Kinesis and got a response back within minutes - they're sending me a new keycap for the cost of shipping / handling ($7). Can't beat the responsiveness or the fact that they didn't ask me to buy an entire keyboard keycap set ($40-50).

    When my Advantage gives out, I'll likely get a 360. They are expensive, but they are built to last in my experience (I bought my first PS/2 Kinesis keyboard 20+ years ago when I did email tech support for Iomega (Zip drives - hundreds of emails a day), had it for 10 years, sold it for half of what I paid for it) and bought the USB version of the Advantage that I still use today.

  • by hitchhiker-nz on 12/18/21, 4:00 AM

    Has anyone actually seen a photo of Advantage360 or did Kinesis just launched a preorder just with renders?

  • by meremortals on 12/17/21, 8:27 PM

    Currently use the split Kinesis Freestyle2. On macOS, Karabiner's "Mouse Keys" mod allows me to control the cursor by holding the d key and using hjkl for left down up right

    It's relieved much of my wrist pain, and I always flirt with the idea of trying a full on Advantage

  • by ioman on 12/17/21, 6:05 PM

    I have been waiting for this keyboard for 20 years

  • by oftenwrong on 12/17/21, 5:53 PM

    I've felt for a long time that this would be an obvious move. I know that many people, myself included, like the Kinesis Advantage design, but wanted a split design like the Freestyle. I've even seen DIY versions.

  • by brailsafe on 12/18/21, 12:08 PM

    It's great to see a ton of options for ergo mechanical keyboards out there now, but anyone have any suggestions for the best competitors/replacements for the Microsoft Sculpt? I used to think Mechanical key switches were the best, but in retrospect I must have been brainwashed by elitists. Full depth keys are irritating to use, and most switches are too loud. I love the ten-keyless, chiclet, reverse tilt style of the Sculpt, but I hear they break down quickly and aren't made anymore. I can't imagine myself using a full-depth keyboard again.

  • by chrsig on 12/17/21, 6:56 PM

    I've been using a kenesis advantage for the last several years, and absolutely love it.

    And I'm incredibly excited about this, mostly

    Hits: - Split design - multiple bluetooth pairings/wireless connection

    Misses: - No function keys?

  • by endisneigh on 12/17/21, 6:25 PM

    If you're seriously thinking about buying this go try the other Kinesis keyboards first. After you get in the ergonomic territory I find the comfort increases to be very marginal.

    IMHO assuming you have no ergonomic setup at all you're better off buying a Kinesis Freestyle, a used Steelcase/Herman Miller chair, and a VESA mount for your monitor/laptop to make it eye level - all of which can be had for the cost of the Pro version.

    That being said this looks like a very nice purchase for those who have the money to micro optimize.

  • by FullyFunctional on 12/17/21, 7:00 PM

    Base version gets PBT keycaps (yesss!) and Pro gets ABS (buuuh) Sadly not a typo. Hopefully the PBT set is available separately or (pretty please) PMK will make a custom run of the Ice-Cap.

  • by aredplug on 12/17/21, 10:41 PM

    To counter the stories of "an ergonomic keyboard" fixed my health issue...

    I had back pain for a few years. After physio and other improvements I tried an Ergodox and that didn't fix it.

  • by dogma1138 on 12/17/21, 6:39 PM

    I would like to see them partner with Logitech and integrate Logitech’s wireless tech into this and get rid of the cables all together and have a much lower latency interface than BT.

  • by regus on 12/17/21, 8:56 PM

    Wow I’m excited to try this! I use a kinesis split keyboard. I like it but it is a bit bulky and has a bunch of keys I never use. I love that it is split and tented, both of these aspects helped with my shoulder and arm pain.

    I tried to use the advantage 2 but because it was neither split nor tented it hurt my shoulder and arm so much that I couldn’t use.

    This seems like the best of both worlds.

    I was considering building a corne keyboard but now I can try this instead.

  • by candyman on 12/17/21, 9:12 PM

    I was having some serious wrist and shoulder pain. Turns out it was related to my mouse which I kept to the right side of my keyboard. I moved it directly in front of the keyboard so it's in the middle and my pains disappeared. I may still take a look at this keyboard because the older you get the more you need. I've now been at the keyboard since 1979 and that's some wear and tear.

  • by Ninjinka on 12/17/21, 8:04 PM

    I picked up a Kinesis Advantage on Craigslist for $100 a year ago and that's easily been the best $100 I've spent. I've found myself wishing I could travel with it, but it's so huge that's really not feasible. This new design makes that look more possible, and the bluetooth option is a huge plus. So I'll definitely be purchasing.

  • by jbellis on 12/17/21, 7:24 PM

    I've wanted a bluetooth Advantage for years, but going from the vestigal F keys to none at all is making this a tough decision.

  • by lowmagnet on 12/17/21, 6:35 PM

    I had an Ergo way back, and it was a decent keyboard until something failed on the bottom row. I've since moved on to building a Ergodox in 2014 that I've been daily using since.

    This model looks really slick, and adds a number of nice innovations to the form factor. I'd reconsider if my current keyboard wasn't so bullet-proof.

  • by arvinsim on 12/18/21, 4:43 AM

    It's sad that ergonomic keyboards are relatively expensive compared to even other expensive mechanical keyboards.

  • by Ciantic on 12/17/21, 8:39 PM

    I have Ergodox Ez, it looks like this one is slightly updated version. Pinky row is lowered (which I think is an advantage, I have wondered for a long time why the pinky row is too high in EZ.). It has Bluetooth which I would prefer.

    It has some ZMK firmware which I haven't studied, I have only used QMK, otherwise looks good.

  • by tbenst on 12/17/21, 8:56 PM

    Love my Advantage2, and only complaint is the USB cable has insufficient strain relief, and I've already replaced two cables, almost once a year. So bluetooth is a welcome sight.

    Am I the only one that prefers the monolith body? I typically rest my keyboard on my knees when typing, which is difficult for a split layout

  • by eckesicle on 12/18/21, 9:27 AM

    I've never used or tried any ergonomic keyboards.

    Last time I looked into it ~10 years ago I dismissed them since there didn't seem to be sufficient evidence to support the bold claims they made.

    What does it look like these days? Do these keyboard work? Is it worth switching from a traditional qwerty mechanical keyboard?

  • by cmauniada on 12/17/21, 8:46 PM

    No function keys is a huge deal breaker for me, I don't have any problem sticking to my advantage2.

  • by acjohnson55 on 12/17/21, 10:11 PM

    Very cool. If this were out a year ago, I may have gone for it instead of my Moonlander. The curved keywells is big differentiator. It would have been hard to have committed to a switch style, though. It took me some trial and error to settle on my Zilents.

  • by blt on 12/17/21, 7:02 PM

    Interested in this. I like my Ergodox EZ but I wish its maximum tenting was a little more. I also really want to try the nonflat key arrangement.

    However, labeled keys and unique key shapes seems like a weird combination. Especially with Enter and Space on the same side.

  • by mulholio on 12/18/21, 11:40 AM

    Damn, this looks great. I'm very happy with my ErgoDoxes but the domed keys on this would make me seriously consider it if I were buying today. IMO, the split keyboard is super important for not messing up your shoulders with hunched over typing.

  • by donatj on 12/17/21, 10:20 PM

    I don't mind the lack of function keys, I have a lot of 40-60% keyboards that lack function keys - but from the pictures, FN+6 is F7… Yikes. Off by one.

    Why. Every layered keyboard is FN+1-9 = F1-9

    I'm sure you can reprogram it to correct this, but this is just silly.

  • by dbenamy on 12/18/21, 7:02 PM

  • by injidup on 12/18/21, 4:16 AM

    I've had a kinesis advantage pro ( same as in article but single not split ) for some 15 years. It's awesome and my only complaint was that my hands were too close together. I think I might upgrade to this.

  • by doitLP on 12/18/21, 3:56 AM

    Maybe this was asked elsewhere but can anyone comment on what it’s like switching back and forth between keyboard layouts when you don’t have your Kinesis? Eg on phone or using someone else’s computer in a pinch.

  • by astangl on 12/18/21, 2:13 AM

    I checked with Kinesis sales, and they said they’ll be offering the PBT dyesub keycaps, for those of us who’d like to buy them for our old Advantage2 keyboards. No word yet on when they’ll be available though.

  • by Tsiklon on 12/20/21, 6:54 PM

    It looks like the initial launch on Drop was a big success for the Kinesis team, the whole run sold out in under 30 minutes.

    I look forward to trying this out in summer 2022 when it becomes more readily available.

  • by konart on 12/18/21, 4:22 AM

    >3-Way Adjustable Tenting

    Looks too easy to break.

    Anyway - I've tried ErgoDox some years ago and realised it's two flaws:

    - too light

    - not enough buttons if you need to type in more than one language and your second language has more than 26 characters.

  • by toastal on 12/18/21, 1:46 AM

    Man, I wish they had differenter keyswitch options. I've used a bunch of Cherry MX styles in the past, but after switching to electrocapacitve Topre-clones, I don't want to go back.

  • by Tepix on 12/18/21, 9:31 PM

    Looks really great! How does it compare with the Keyboardio Model 01/100? I think i like the sculpted shape better on the Kinesis, otoh the keycaps on the Keyboardio seem nicer

  • by tinbucket on 12/17/21, 6:14 PM

    I wonder why they’re using Gateron switches rather than Cherry ones? Is it just about cutting costs, or is there a solid technical reason for using clones rather than the originals?

  • by 1MachineElf on 12/18/21, 4:24 AM

    This looks like a fun way to test ZMK. Most of the boards out there that support it are tiny and going or the same price, so why not get something bigger in a nice form factor?

  • by gentle on 12/18/21, 4:59 AM

    I love my Kinesis Advantage and I credit it with saving my elbows 15 years ago.

    These look great, but I'd definitely be worried about the little stands standing up to constant use.

  • by Gatsky on 12/18/21, 5:26 AM

    A major issue I have with these ergo keyboards is the impossibility of trying them before buying them.

    Any solutions for this? I guess it is pay to play or stick with normal layouts.

  • by mbrodersen on 12/19/21, 1:31 AM

    Kinesis Advantage 2 saved my career as a developer. I have nothing but praise for the company and the products they make. I will definitely try out the 360.

  • by mlazos on 12/18/21, 12:23 AM

    This looks great! I’m happy with my ergodox ez, but now that kinesis has a split keyboard with qmk support it’s nice to see the competition in this space.

  • by abecedarius on 12/18/21, 12:17 AM

    > Weight: 3.2 pounds

    That seems like a lot. Any keyboard experts feel like explaining why a good keyboard is heavier than a laptop?

  • by brainlessdev on 12/17/21, 9:20 PM

    I wonder if an ISO version will become available (with a <> key next to the left shift key).

    It has never been the case for their other models :(

  • by stakkur on 12/18/21, 1:02 AM

    Aaaand despite costing a small fortune and being sturdy….it has to have a ‘Windows’ key. It baffles me how that persists.

  • by gigatexal on 12/17/21, 9:51 PM

    Trying to justify the price as I’m very keen to try the contoured keys. What’s the difference between the two models?

  • by goodpoint on 12/18/21, 12:20 PM

    All this ergonomic keyboards are incredibly expensive. Is there anything reasonable below 50e? Even DIY.

  • by huang47 on 12/17/21, 6:37 PM

    love the split design but the new challenge will be where I can mount the magic trackpad LOL

  • by ianai on 12/17/21, 6:29 PM

    What are the odds the pre-orders will be robbed by bots in a few seconds?

  • by kwertyoowiyop on 12/18/21, 12:34 AM

    I've always pressed 'b' with my RIGHT index finger. :-(

  • by waynesonfire on 12/18/21, 7:27 AM

    if you're still young, learn dvorak as soon as possible and when you're wise, you won't be crippled like these folks praising this keyboard.

  • by alostpuppy on 12/17/21, 8:16 PM

    Does anyone know what the professional edition adds?

  • by uses on 12/17/21, 10:11 PM

    What did they end up doing with the escape key?

  • by muditmudit on 12/17/21, 6:10 PM

    Is it just me, or does it look like another ergodox clone/fork? I mean, I'm happy. I hope this would make the split layout even more common place.

  • by new_realist on 12/17/21, 11:11 PM

    There's a renaissance in hobbyist ergo keyboards happening right now, and this is the best Kinesis could do?

  • by miguelmurca on 12/17/21, 7:06 PM

    > Use stronger thumbs rather than weaker pinkies to access

    For some reason that sentence is extremely funny to me

  • by greenimpala on 12/18/21, 12:40 AM

    oh wow.. had my advantage for 8 years and would never look back!

  • by iLemming on 12/18/21, 5:01 PM

  • by bayofpigs on 12/17/21, 6:05 PM

    Been using the Advantage for decades. Splitting the two sides is a terrific idea. Always wanted to mount a split keyboard to the sides of a zero-gravity chair so will try it out with this.

    Two features I wished they would offer: 1. A nub-mouse like the Thinkpad 2. A touchpad in the center of the keyboard (not needed for the split)