by Winterflow3r on 11/28/21, 5:38 PM with 206 comments
by cplanas on 11/28/21, 7:06 PM
For me it's a mixed bag, and we will be probably moving back to Europe next year, after spending 6 years in between San Francisco and New York.
On the positive side, money. Software engineers make much, much more in the US than anywhere in Europe, including Nordic countries. My income tripled in the US, and my income was considered pretty high Denmark. Another positive side of the US is that there seems to be more opportunities, particularly if you are white or Asian and work in tech. My wife couldn't get a job in Europe, here she joined multiple FAANGs.
On the negative side, the lifestyle doesn't really fit us: too much focus on work. The problem is not -only- longer working hours, but that a lot people center their life around their job. I also find the social issues of the US (unequality, racism) more disturbing than the ones there are in Europe.
by simonw on 11/28/21, 6:56 PM
Financially definitely worth it - salaries here are so much higher even than London, not to mention stock options and suchlike.
California is a really lovely place to live. We saw a whale from our back deck once! It's November and it's sunny and warm outside. Very different from the UK!
Even with the best insurance plan we can find, interacting with the healthcare system here is so stressful that it's the main thing that makes me consider moving back again.
by ranieuwe on 11/28/21, 6:33 PM
We enjoy the US, especially Washington but will probably move back to the EU in ~7-8 years. Miss a lot of things from Europe though, especially the school system and public transportation.
by throwaway_13490 on 11/28/21, 6:43 PM
Yes it's been worth it for me. I really enjoy my time in New York and I was looking for a change.
Being far away from friends/family is clearly not fun. I already changed countries several times within the EU before so I was used to it.
Some random notes since the question is a bit open-ended:
- I stayed with the same company, which helped me a lot because it gave me social contacts when I first moved (my colleagues).
- Having a guest bedroom is great because having friends or family over for a longer time is easier.
- The visa process is a pain while you're in it. Looking back on it, it's mostly the frustration at the lack of efficiency and unclarity that made it bad. Considering all the other things, it's a visible and easy to discuss "cost" but changing social circles is the bigger challenge and less easily discussed, I think.
- Moving to a country where English is the native language is a _lot_ easier than moving to a country where you don't know the language as well. This holds even if a large part of the population speaks English very well; if you don't speak native language of a country, it's hard to feel like a part of society.
- I personally don't like the "X in NYC" (X being your citizenship) facebook groups. Bonding based on interests (sports, books, ...) has been more rewarding for me.
The experience has been totally worth it for me and I don't regret moving one bit. That said... I don't plan on having kids in the US/growing old in the US.
(salary is better but I assume you looked that up already)
by thurn on 11/28/21, 6:38 PM
by belugacat on 11/28/21, 6:45 PM
It's been worth it although it's come at the cost of personal relationships somewhat.
by kello on 11/28/21, 6:21 PM
by TulliusCicero on 11/28/21, 7:16 PM
The people talking about a lifestyle downgrade in the US aren’t wrong, exactly, but it does depend on your own preferences and values and situation. For me, the lifestyle in the Seattle area is better overall I’d say, but I definitely miss the transportation system in Munich a ton. Seattle is practically drowning in nerd culture, which I adore, whereas Munich had relatively little.
Also, not everything is as the stereotypes go. The public school our son is in here in Kirkland is fucking awesome, way better than the private school he was in in Munich (we were going to do public school there, but the system didn’t want him). Part of his better adjustment is obviously being a native speaker, but that’s not the only thing that’s better.
by Ginden on 11/28/21, 6:54 PM
by malermeister on 11/28/21, 6:30 PM
You make a lot more $$$, but it's definitely a big lifestyle downgrade. I wouldn't wanna live there permanently, but as a temporary thing to set yourself up nicely it's not too bad.
by homedog31 on 11/28/21, 6:29 PM
Edit: by salary I meant total income including RSUs, the salary is also much better but obviously not 10x.
by exdsq on 11/28/21, 6:27 PM
by mmaunder on 11/28/21, 7:21 PM
That’s my perspective as an entrepreneur. I actually worked for eToys.com in the UK and spent time based in the USA in LA and loved it. Faster moving, no classism, faster advancement and plenty of other amazing businesses surrounded me.
The States is amazing in my opinion for employees and entrepreneurs.
by marcinzm on 11/28/21, 6:35 PM
by angarg12 on 11/28/21, 6:12 PM
by wdb on 11/28/21, 6:47 PM
by beagle3 on 11/28/21, 8:01 PM
If you have a pension fund in your home country, you’ll likely be reporting and paying tax on its interest. Be prepared to have your looked country banks refuse to deal with you or limit you to saving accounts, and lots of other complications. When living in the US, my tax filing (because of I had to sell some non U.S. assets) one year topped 200 pages; and every year it cost me about 5-10 full work days to prepare the tax filing.
Many people just don’t bother reporting everything, whether out of ignorance or out of negligence - and very rarely get audited. But I wasn’t willing to take the risk.
My advice is: before moving, find an accountant who specialized in US tax for people in your country (and the treaty), and discuss your specific situation. Minor changes before moving could make your financial life incredibly less stressful - and most of them cannot be done once you’ve moved.
At the very least, you must know of FBAR, FATCA, and the treaties that apply to you. But really, two hours with a professional tax person will probably have an ROI of x1000 or so.
by DaiPlusPlus on 11/28/21, 7:20 PM
Definitely worth it: my total comp is 3x-4x what it would be in the UK for the exact same kinds of work.
by zz865 on 11/28/21, 8:48 PM
After that I'm not so sure, we got citizenship and now feels a bit like a trap. I like the land, people and climate (though too hot) but it seems a bit shallow and corporate. A lot of people from other parts of the world make huge sacrifices to bring their kids here to the land of opportunity, I worry there is too much materialistic reward and not enough culture.
Interestingly dont have a problem with the inequality, I think the rich here are almost to be pitied working non-stop to buy an even bigger 2nd house and a more luxurious car? I'm not even sure why they do it.
by rurban on 11/29/21, 2:51 PM
But we eventually came back to a democracy, and saw what we paid our taxes for.
by 1991g on 11/30/21, 5:36 AM
Although, I didn't move strictly for work - I intended to build a life here, and my initial visa was dual intent for that reason.
by tester756 on 11/28/21, 8:12 PM
How many paid, free days per year that you can take in almost any amount in a row do you have?
by H8crilA on 11/28/21, 6:14 PM
This site is very accurate
by morrbo on 11/28/21, 7:25 PM
As for the working environment, the general thing I found was that the US tends to have more people which are absolute experts, whereas EU is more general. If you get hired to do, say, firewall config in the US then you'd be an absolute expert on Cisco, and there would be another separate person who is an absolute expert on Checkpoint. In EU there would be one person who (whilst they might be shit-hot) would be 80% as good as their US counterparts, but on both Cisco/Checkpoint. Just an observation I had across several companies. The main things which drove we away from the US were the working environments - long days, and the general intensity. Also unsaid things like travel time in general being a lot longer, just because stuff is more spread out, than EU. I also found that a lot of the meetings were very confrontational, there was a lot of competitiveness/trying to make others look bad, etc. than their EU counterparts.
That being said, the time I got completely eviscerated in a meeting on purpose (to make the consultant look bad) was in Eastern Europe. YMMV, but of course these are just my general observations. It sounds weird, but being from the UK I missed the music scene a lot. The US people were absolutely lovely though, everywhere I went everyone made me feel welcome, even the people who look to tear you a new one in meetings 30 minutes later.
These are just some random sunday evening musings from someone who has worked a few years in both (some FAANG, some large, some small companies) in both. My observations are pre-Trump though, it does seem recently that there's a lot more division in the US these days, so the environment might be totally different now. I'd honestly give it a go if you're young, see if you like it. You can always move back. FWIW my favorite places in both were probably a smallish company in San Diego, and work in Malta. To choose any places to live for me, other than the UK, i'd most likely pick Boston and Sweden. 99% of the time the people you work with make the atmosphere though, so you can get lucky and unlucky, which is why i'm trying to generalise my experiences as much as possible. I realise i've gone on a mad tangent here, but yes it was totally worth it and i'd do it again if i could.