by ripley12 on 10/22/21, 1:59 AM
I'm the author of that issue. I think I can be a little more frank here: this is a horrifically short-sighted decision that has me scared for the future of .NET. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the .NET team, and I'm very certain they're not the ones behind this.
I've been incredibly impressed by the hot reload solution that the .NET team has delivered. It's worked remarkably well in preview across multiple platforms and technologies. I've built my own hooks into the hot reload feature, and I've used it to get a tight feedback loop in many different kinds of applications. It's awesome.
I was so excited to be able to point to that feature and say "yes, .NET has a great developer experience - even outside Visual Studio". I haven't always been able to do that. And now... it's going away as a broadly available feature, so that some bean counter can use it to drive usage of a legacy IDE (I love Visual Studio, but let's not kid ourselves about where the future lies).
Immediate feedback (i.e. a fast inner loop) isn't a niche feature - it's an essential element of any creative activity (see: Bret Victor). They are crippling .NET and it hurts to see it.
by devwastaken on 10/22/21, 5:05 AM
.NET is one of those languages you want to give a chance, and every time you do, it does something incredibly short sighted and harmful to itself.
You just can't change Microsoft. You can put fancy new skins on things and say you're part of the cool kids, but remember the people who made all of Microsoft s terrible moments aren't the young devs that care. It's management.
The only way I will ever use .net is if an actual open source implementation detached from MS happens. Openjdk it.
by tailspin2019 on 10/22/21, 1:43 AM
This is a terrible decision. The feature already works, and if they’re not happy with it, they could just slap a preview/beta flag on it in the docs like they do for many other things.
Instead, they actually ripped out the code.
Other web frameworks have had this functionality for years. .NET just finally caught up, and then they drop it.
by fartcannon on 10/22/21, 3:16 AM
At some point you have to start asking yourself, why do I tolerate this stuff when there are better alternatives elsewhere?
Ditch Microsoft. Ditch closed computing.
by phendrenad2 on 10/22/21, 1:04 AM
Welcome to corporate-owned open-source. You COULD fork .NET and add hot-reload back in. But you won't. And they know it.
by Angius on 10/22/21, 2:29 AM
Let's just say that this decision made me reinstall Elixir and open up Phoenix docs... I've been meaning to take a look at them and now I got the push.
Now, I don't think I'll rewrite my current projects in Elixir, far from it, but just in case...
by jung_j on 10/22/21, 7:30 AM
by rvz on 10/22/21, 12:37 AM
Extend. So you can't use this feature on Jetbrains Rider or any other app other than Visual Studio.
This is typical Microsoft, so it's unsurprising. But they have a strange way of 'embracing' open source.
by vbilopav on 10/22/21, 6:58 AM
by bob1029 on 10/22/21, 8:05 AM
The way I deal with all of this (we are a pure Microsoft shop), is to simply pretend like MS is another flavor of Apple, and that I shouldn't expect anything to work outside of the walled garden. Pay to play, rug taken out from under at worst moment, etc. All par for this course.
Once you accept the nature of the abuser, it's a lot easier to get productive and back to some state of happy.
Is Microsoft raping and pillaging OSS? Kinda maybe in some ways... Are they providing incredibly powerful tools and platforms upon which ordinary assholes like myself can build neat shit? Yes also.
I dont think we should always expect to have our cake and eat it too. Seems like some days we are allowed to, and on others we are reminded that magic is not always free.
by john_gihhins on 10/22/21, 6:37 AM
Just a long time lurker here, but I don’t remember anyone mentioning a tool I’ve been using: LiveSharp at www.livesharp.net -> it worked much better than MS tooling in VS2022. Disclaimer: primary Xamarin development.
by sander1095 on 10/22/21, 11:12 AM
Perhaps even more concerning is the possible removal of dotnet watch entirely, crippling the productivity of cli users as a result. I created an issue about that here:
https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/issues/22265by doker0 on 10/23/21, 5:52 PM
Quickly guys and gals. The only way to really keep this feature and allow an incentive for VS team to develop the software is to figure out a business plan for MS. There's no big progress without VS designers and tools for new features, and there is no big step forward without .net cross-platform adaptation including all kinds of devices. They are not going to provide all tools for all platforms, but they still have to have their playground called VS to push new features (like the mentioned Azure support). Quickly guys and gals, give them a sustainable business idea.
by Shadonototra on 10/22/21, 6:57 PM
"your language is not backed by a big corp, therefore it is useless"
This aged very well..
by oaiey on 10/23/21, 1:09 PM
A question: is this MIT code developed also by non Microsoft developers? Because than free labor is hijacked into a commercial product. Which would be very unethical
by darepublic on 10/22/21, 3:47 AM
Revenge of the donkey
by anon0078910 on 10/22/21, 2:43 PM
Not sure what are you complaining about.
If you are single developer or small enough entity who can not afford, you have Visual Studio Community for FREE.
However, if you are making good money developing software then you spend some of it in tooling. Why should your company make the profit but not MS who invests heavily in their platforms, tooling and entire eco system so you can build and run your applications and services (which makes you money in the first place).
I have not seen any more generous company than MS.
Have you?