by frant1c on 8/1/21, 8:48 PM with 201 comments
by bschne on 8/2/21, 6:31 AM
I used to try and set up the perfect system for my notes. I got caught in endless cycles of coming up with some structure, finding new tools, etc. — only to then barely ever write down anything because it never quite fit into any of the boxes I'd prepared.
I used to try out a new todo app every other month, enthusiastic that this time I'd find the system that would finally enable me to never let anything fall through the cracks.
I'd plan out the perfect pipeline of bookmark - triage - read/watch/listen so that I could stay on top of every great talk, article, interview or book anyone had ever created and shared with the world. You can probably guess what happened.
Then, for some reason, I just got more... relaxed? at some point. Have a thought? Just make a note, doesn't matter if I'll ever look at it again or it will still make sense in a week. Sometimes I go back and expand on things. Sometimes I event write something out of it. Most times I don't and that's fine. Find something cool? Just bookmark. Maybe I'll look through them in a moment of boredom one day soon, maybe the never-ending influx of hot new content means I'll never get around to it. Whatever. Want to or think I should do something? Make a task, don't set a date, maybe I'll get back to it, maybe it turns out I don't want or need to do it ever. Got something you keep putting off? Maybe just delete it after the tenth time, it'll come back to you if it's worth it.
by complexworld on 8/1/21, 11:27 PM
For me this works well, because: * I don't forget to get things done * I don't have to think about what I need to do, the app shows me a daily list * I get a small feeling of accomplishment for every task I complete (gamificaion), and for finishing all my tasks (daily task inbox zero).
It works for me.
by rtpg on 8/2/21, 4:35 AM
I think people underestimate the amount of pain that comes from, over and over again, looking at a list of things you can't do anything about at a moment X.
The only TODO app that I've found get this at least 95% right is Omnifocus with its billions of settings. Though there's still sometimes a wish to have a "this part of the todo tree is still under construction" node.
I think that this absolutely fundamental failing has soured everyone on almost all of these kinds of apps. Which is a shame, because _if you put in the work to actually write out stuff_, it becomes much easier to get stuff done, and not feel bad about stuff.
People drag on GTD but David Allen is basically right (at least if you are living in the mindset of wanting to really work yourself hard). It's the task management equivalent of doing your budgetting seriously. Yeah, sometimes the problem is just that you need to make more money, but when you have your budget under control a lot of stress just disappears.
by dkarl on 8/2/21, 5:08 AM
It's true that TODO apps have a lot of bad aspects, but that's no reason to give up and hand yourself over to the exploitative dystopia of global industrial emotional manipulation. That's like hoping to go to hell after you die because you heard the devil makes the trains run on time.
Personally, I think a big part of the appeal TODO apps is the rush of optimism you get from adopting a new system. That's the part that gets people excited, all the marketing is build to whip it up, and it actually makes a positive difference in people's lives, temporarily. Believing you're going to live differently and get more shit down will, in fact, help you get more shit done. But I think we would be better off looking past that when we evaluate productivity apps. You have to be honest and ask yourself, if I am the driving force, if the motivation and belief are coming from my baseline instead of from how I feel pumped up on product marketing, then how useful will the app be? Because that's what you'll get after the first week.
Want regular artificial boosts to your belief in yourself and your optimism about your life? Don't shop for TODO apps. Hop cults, or hire a motivational life coach or something. Do yourself the favor of enjoying some continuity in your productivity tools.
by powersnail on 8/1/21, 11:13 PM
Motivation, tenacity, and perspective are not really within the scope of todo lists.
by bachmeier on 8/2/21, 12:21 AM
It's worth pointing out that David Allen is very outspoken on his position that you should NOT use a todo list. He writes it out clearly in his book. This is probably the most common misconception about GTD. I've even heard people say they gave up on GTD because todo lists don't work for them. Okay...
I use a task manager but I don't have a todo list. The standard usage of a todo list, where you dump any task that may or may not be worth doing at some point, is at best a distraction from real project management. To get things done, you have to decide on the one or few things you should be working on at a point in time. A todo list doesn't help with that.
by makeitdouble on 8/1/21, 11:08 PM
Also
> In fact the advanced solution technology lies in the hands of productivity enemies: social media apps and games.
Please let’s not. Harvesting dark patterns also has mental side effects that we are well aware of now (either you deplete your good will or you keep going on fueled by negative emotions)
by neilv on 8/2/21, 4:48 AM
My tweaks to todo.txt, and some helpful Emacs Lisp, is at: https://www.neilvandyke.org/todotxt/
For work project management, I'm recently using GitLab Issues and Board, with my own labels for urgency and Kanban state. (This isn't quite enough for large project planning, for which I usually use Gantt heavily. But hopefully the next time I need that, there'll be an easy way to link the work breakdown structure and dependencies to all the GitLab-based data capture and workflow the team is doing.)
by JohnJamesRambo on 8/1/21, 11:20 PM
This one is so good and true.
by varajelle on 8/2/21, 3:45 AM
by butwhywhyoh on 8/2/21, 12:21 AM
"I bought this hammer the other day. Every time I hammer a nail in, the hammer doesn't vibrate and play a tune to give me a sense of accomplishment. What gives?"
Has anyone considered that if you're looking to external means to feel a sense of accomplishment, you're relying on meaningless short-term gratification?
by spec-obs on 8/2/21, 5:50 AM
If you just trust in your own mind, it will manage priority for you and get better the more you trust it. You rarely forget important things (they have an immediate need and make it known). Small stuff just mentally shuffles themselves to the back of the mind, if a few fall off the table, it's not going to cause any significant impact.
Doing this removes all the guilt of having big lists that need daily attention (where you feel you need a todo list to manage your todo list). This way I know I am tackling the important things, which are also what make me feel better as I know I have made an impact on my day. I am not going to start / end the day with a list of everything I have not done yet.
This feels like a much more human experience to me. As they say 'don't sweat the small stuff'
by kristofferR on 8/2/21, 1:00 AM
It's an incredibly customizable app that lets you create a ToDo app that works for you.
Unfortunately the web page doesn't make it clear how customizable it is, and how many unique features it has, but this may give you an idea [2].
by boxfoxdox on 8/2/21, 9:32 AM
- closed loops for stuff that would otherwise occupy my thoughts while programming
- understanding and aplication of what makes me either not start or think about something (project) constantly
- ability to drop and return to it and just continue
- differentiation between what is a must do and nice to do
- separating emotional context for a protocol one ( usefull for things that upset me but must be dealt with)
Bad things
- overusing the system as it is very effective and placing way of the mark projects that you wish to do and that drag on to irrelevance, especially the inbox filled with thoughts rather than something useful.
- it requires at least weekly maintenance, especially when the structure is new to the user
- lists can get convoluted , amended by understanding that you can and should add remove entire lists or even make lists context based.
Bad parts can be overcame but it requires a deeper understanding of gtd and knowing that your gtd flow is ment to be upgraded, reworked and much less structural and rigid in some places. I am currently at my v2 for gtd and it is much easier to maintain while providing me with pretty much same benefits, there is going to be v3.
Overall it helped me immensely to clear my ram when working and for that at least it is worth it
by yosito on 8/2/21, 4:49 AM
by HKH2 on 8/2/21, 1:30 AM
2. You can get Loop Habit Tracker to automatically put the things you do on time at the top so it's easy to get started. You can archive things you don't want to focus on, to reduce the size of the list.
3. I feel good when the list gets shorter.
4. If you have the easy tasks at the top, it's easy to get started.
5. Tasks.org lets you color things by priority. I never bother because I keep my list short and hide things until a week/day before they're due.
6. Tasks.org can do subtasks. I think doing such granular stuff in an app is limited and I prefer to just scribble some notes on paper, but I understand more could be done.
7. Tasks.org lets you view categories.
I've never found an app that does everything I want, so I think you're right in that a lot more could be done, but I've no interest in writing Java or messing about with virtual machines etc. so I'm quite happy with the options I've got on my phone. Overall, I use two apps, paper and my own note taking system on my desktop (for quickly taking notes that come back later, which I can postpone, search through etc.)
Some people are more conscientious, and they probably don't need many reminders. I'm not so conscientious, and my process helps me keep going, and I would rather make it all as robotic as possible so I don't have to deliberate.
by dangero on 8/1/21, 11:10 PM
I’m leaning towards it’s impossible, but would like to hear what others think.
by whatever1 on 8/2/21, 4:19 AM
I tried to map out the space of info that I need to track in my engineering job:
1) Tasks from emails 2) Meeting notes with details of people who participated 3) Project related tasks that can have a long format and can be tagged/ delegated 4) Scratchpad for unrefined ideas 5) Detailed documentation for completed technical tasks / ideas 6) FIFO list of high priority small daily tasks
I try to fight the above battle of information organization with a combination of MS Outlook, Onenote, Github boards, MS Todo, physical Sticky notes, a physical notebook and scratchpad, but it is messy.
I occasionally try to find alternatives (notion, bear, trello etc) but no luck so far
by dugmartin on 8/2/21, 12:36 PM
Example frontends would be things like "Wheel of Do" where you spin the wheel and it lands on an item, Castle Wolfenstien 2.5D shooter where a todo item is an enemy, a Star Trek style control panel, etc.
Like I said, its a glimmer of an idea but it handles the two things I have problems with in any todo app: an ever expanding backlog and getting bored with the UI.
Please build it someone, I don't have the time. :)
by guy98238710 on 8/2/21, 12:52 AM
by gregoriol on 8/2/21, 7:58 AM
by timtas on 8/6/21, 3:35 PM
1. No dates. Instead I had sublists by timeframe: Today, Tomorrow, This Week, Weekend, Next Week, Some Day. And it was easy to move an item between sublists. It was easy to move things up and down to indicate next up. Every morning I would scan the Today and Tomorrow items, and move them around to suit my plan for the day.
I don't want or expect my To Do list to stop me from procrastinating. Rather I want it to support healthier procrastination by never letting me totally forget the things I keep putting off.
2. One thing I realized is that weekend task is different than a weekday task. I'm not going to mow my lawn on a weekday. Conversely many tasks require a business to be open and cannot be done on the weekend. On weekday mornings I don't want to be staring at a list of my weekend chores.
3. When you completed an item, it was crossed out but visible until you deleted it. Delicious positive reinforcement.
One important insight is that a To Do list is not to keep track of all the things you need to do. It's to keep track of the annoying things only. You won't forget to do things you look forward to doing.
by jdrmar on 8/2/21, 7:12 AM
Have a look at https://can.do if you're interested.
@op would be interested to see your list of 13 'strategies to help me get things done'!
by riho on 8/2/21, 10:06 AM
If it's a chore to add a task, I won't add them. If it's a chore to go through tasks, I won't come back to the app.
It's also a really important point about some tasks being inherently different in scale to others, and the importance of separating them.
I feel like many todo apps focus too much on being a "todo app" rather than actually trying to get you to get things done. All this tagging and categorizing and such are features that take effort and time for me to manage, which in turn help make those apps into huge graveyards of stuff to do, which in turn make me want to not open them ever again.
IMO a todo apps that is blank most of the time is the best. Meaning, you haven't got anything you need to do. Help me keep track of small tasks, and repeating tasks, and let me either complete them or postpone them. If there's something I've postponed too many times, just delete it. It shoudn't become a notes app, it's about getting stuff done.
by codemac on 8/2/21, 12:02 AM
[0]: https://elemental.medium.com/dont-worry-you-can-t-deplete-yo...
by zs234465234165 on 8/3/21, 1:42 AM
by penguin_booze on 8/2/21, 4:37 PM
For the features that I feel missing, I've been hatching this plan for my perfect app for more than a decade. "Cloud hosted HTML5? Oh, but how do I get notification on my phone? Hm, maybe need to write a native one. Not easy to develop for Android from command line, ugh. Flutter?". Rinse and repeat.
[0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dayup.gtas...
by PikachuEXE on 8/2/21, 1:58 AM
I understand human brain's capability to forget things from a little bit of details (sometimes key details) to the "entry" itself (Don't even know that a thing is forgotten).
There are many things that should be remembered/reminded via technology, especially things that can become disasters when not done regularly (e.g. paying credit card debt, backup data, etc).
I use Todoist but you are free to choose whatever you like. Even a notes app or paper notebooks.
I think it's good to have the following features for the app/method you choose:
* Recurring Tasks (every month, every 3rd Sat)
* Task Tagging and/or categorization
* Searching (seriously what method doesn't have this except paper notebooks?)
* Sub tasks (but this depends on how you use it)
* Attachments (for small files/images)
* Commenting (extra details/logs)
Edit: Formatting
by nuclearsugar on 8/2/21, 6:51 AM
So I've kept it minimal and just use a text editor in the cloud, which is Google Docs. I can use the app on my phone while doing errands or can open it in a web browser on my laptop. The history is occasionally useful too.
But I strictly only maintain 3 documents to keep the scope limited:
- Todo Current /// items to work on this week, ordered based on priority
- Todo Future /// waiting on aspects before items can work on, reason listed
- Todo Art /// personal projects
Been using this system for years and it's been great for keeping streamlined and focused.
by cheerioty on 8/2/21, 12:37 AM
by leshokunin on 8/2/21, 12:40 AM
by tern on 8/2/21, 6:37 AM
An iteration in a positive direction for me was switching to NotePlan.
Every day I get a fresh sheet of paper and I write my todo list as needed. If I want to bring in tasks from previous days, I can go find them and move them to today. My todos are intermingled with my notes for the day, saved links, and my journal.
This way, my list doesn't grow and grow if I don't tend to it, yet I also never lose todo items.
I can also make ad hoc todo lists on project pages, for instances.
I suppose it's quite similar to just using a notebook, except there's a view where you can see all of your todos.
by lonelyasacloud on 8/2/21, 12:50 PM
Having something running around behind me taking notes and nagging to get this and that done is useful,it is only the first part of the story. What I actually want (and I suspect most others) - especially given it's been fed at least some of the information necessary - is something that helps expedite the actual tasks efficiently
by avnigo on 8/2/21, 2:09 PM
This hits the nail on the head for me. I wonder if there's any to-do apps that let you ascribe effort/time to a task. Ranking current tasks by least effort would get me to start on one and get the ball rolling.
by happytiger on 8/2/21, 6:36 AM
I end up using thematic periods, where I prioritize some kind of epic that feels like it matters the most. Whether I’m the ceo of a successful company or the lowly person who is part of the two people eying success in the next one I experience the same problem.
Anyone else? I can’t be alone in this.
by erdaniels on 8/1/21, 11:17 PM
The only "feature" I want really is a diff over time just to see what I've done and what I was doing at the time. I want completion/non-completion to be represented by deletions of lines/bullet points.
by CraigJPerry on 8/2/21, 8:28 AM
by for_i_in_range on 8/2/21, 9:39 AM
Yet, I’ve since switched to the last Todo app I’ll ever use: 4” x 6” notecards.
Thinking on paper = build your mind.
Thinking in digital = build another’s.
Todos on paper = get work done.
Todos in digital = do more work.
Notes on paper = hard to create, hard to forget.
Notes in digital = easy to create, easy to forget.
by andrewmcwatters on 8/1/21, 11:59 PM
by lupin_sansei on 8/1/21, 11:38 PM
by zapataband1 on 8/1/21, 11:05 PM
by tuatoru on 8/2/21, 7:42 AM
Learning your routine, knowing what to do when it hears "we need more milk" or hears you arrange a hair cut, being able to make an email confirming action points from a phone call, etc., etc.
Progress on making these listening assistants be actually useful has been disappointing.
by fouc on 8/2/21, 10:14 AM
Manna – Two Views of Humanity’s Future: https://marshallbrain.com/manna1
In this story, the human essentially becomes a robot, with just headphones and a "todo app" telling the human what to do every step of the way
by sadness3 on 8/2/21, 12:28 AM
Managing my todo list also organises my brain and lets me relax knowing I won't forget things.
Working just fine for me and I'm not sure I would want a bunch of 'smart' features being all clippy on me.
by egypturnash on 8/1/21, 11:56 PM
Habitica is a gamified todo that does well enough to be around for many years. Never worked for me.
by carloscbl on 8/2/21, 6:43 AM
by madrox on 8/2/21, 10:44 PM
by miloprogs on 8/1/21, 11:37 PM
by ex3ndr on 8/2/21, 9:51 AM
by phone8675309 on 8/1/21, 11:36 PM
by gorgoiler on 8/2/21, 11:19 AM
by mackrevinack on 8/2/21, 11:52 AM
with an outliner everything is a bullet point (or node). every node has an optional note section, and every node can have more nodes nested underneath it. thats basically all there is to it, but it means you can arrange things to be a basic a shopping list, or a project that holds many other sub nodes/folders, or if you were writing an article or a book you could have each node be a sort of a header/chapter description and then the content written in each note section.
ive found that rescheduling or tagging features in most todo apps just ends up being more work than actually doing the tasks themselves, so the way i organise my todo list now is by just using now/next/later nodes. i usually have a handful of tasks in the 'now' section, and maybe 10 or so in 'next'. when i run out of tasks in 'now' i move things up from next/later or if there are too many tasks in 'now' i move them to 'next'. the 'later' section is an unholy mess of things but it really doesnt matter because that section is collapsed/hidden most of the time so its not overwhelming and the search is good enough that i can pull something back up easily enough without having to organise anything or follow a system.
overall, the thing i try to remind myself is that i can only work on one thing at a time. its irrelevant whether there are 10 or 1000 tasks up next after the current one. the only thing i need to worry about right now is working on the most important task.
personally i dont get much out of marking something off the list or keeping a 'done' list. just actually completing the physical task is enough of an achievement for me.
about point #5. i would really love to see a solution to that. its the one thing that bothers me about my current setup. small tasks and chores are mixed in right beside big projects and sometimes i only want to work on one type and hide the others. the only thing i can think of its maybe filtering the list by certain words, or maybe the node content since small tasks are just usually 1 node, and projects have many sub-nodes. but its not always that simple either, so other than the only solution is to go back to tagging things.
by andrewjl on 8/1/21, 11:24 PM
by sjg007 on 8/2/21, 4:48 PM
by EFruit on 8/2/21, 12:04 AM
Its philosophy is built around the fact that I'm only ever going to be working on one major, todo-worthy task during a given minute. There's no reason to inundate me with dozens of things I could be working on when I'll only ever be doing one. And most of the time, I'm ambivalent to what I'm doing — if I need to consult a Todo list to remember it, clearly it's not something I'm actively working on, since I don't (yet) need help remembering those.
It's been very effective when I can use it (it needs a few tweaks so it can accept tasks from multiple sources, rather than one singular list). The core workflow is to jot down a task name and a priority in a text-based, line-delimited list file. Then, when you have time to do something, the app parses the list of tasks and selects exactly one at random, weighted by the priority. At that point, you have four options: - Defer the task and roll for a new one (which increments a counter on the task, and does not guarantee that you'll actually get a different task!) - Log some time on it, and optionally roll for a new task (again, not guaranteed to be different) - Mark it done, and roll for a new task - Exit the app
It knows about repeating tasks, start and due dates, dependency trees, and "stints", which are just a log of the time you spent on a particular task. It can filter tasks based on how much time you have to work vs. how long you estimate it will take, whether there are unsatisfied dependencies, etc. There's even an option that tries to assign you tasks that try to keep your "mood" steady. You can optionally annotate tasks with a mood tag (which is just a float), with the idea being that tasks with positive values are pleasant, and ones negative values are unpleasant. If it assigns you a mood-tagged task and you work on it, it adds the value from the tag to a global mood variable, and the default priority scheme tries to keep it around 0. In other words, when you do something pleasant, it builds up a buffer so you can handle something unpleasant. Or, if you do something unpleasant, it tries to reward you by giving you something pleasant to do.
The crown jewel is the LISP-y functional priority language that implements these dynamic tweaks to the priorities. For example, I have some rather daunting tasks that entail a lot of repetitive, monotonous work. Since it knows when I've been working on it, I can script it to de-prioritize those based on how much time I've spent on them lately.
It's technically open source (it's a TUI app written in Go), but I'm hesitant to post a link here since it's not robustly tested, the code isn't pretty, and the README is written in a sarcastic, derisive tone. I'm hoping to rewrite it after I finish up a library I'm working on to make it a bit more generally useful.
by mihaaly on 8/1/21, 11:11 PM
by melicoy on 8/2/21, 2:38 PM
by XAMPPRocky on 8/1/21, 11:28 PM