from Hacker News

When working from home is toxic

by SansGuidon on 7/5/21, 2:10 PM with 86 comments

• by probably_wrong on 7/5/21, 3:07 PM

  > My concern with such a chart is that not everyone has a home office that looks as good as a traditional workplace. In addition, interruptions happen at home too and chatting with coworkers is not a problem per se.

  I wish every person arguing for or against home office would open their comment detailing what their home setup looks like. As someone living in an apartment with no backyard and a small desk placed in the intersection of my kitchen and living room (aka "the one room that is not the bedroom"), losing my office has more cons that pros.

  At the same time, I am fully aware that the "my office" part of my previous sentence is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Those cursed with an open office plan are probably enjoying now those benefits I've been missing for a year now.

  If only there was an accepted "working environment checklist" that we could all use...

• by stank345 on 7/5/21, 3:06 PM

  Getting back to working from the office last week has done wonders for my mental health. I went from being locked up for a year WFH with my wife and kids in a small row home working out of my goddamn basement to actually being able to concentrate in a beautiful, still-mostly-dead office with a view. There's an exercise room on my floor that no one uses so it's basically my private gym. I can chat a bit with the few coworkers who are in the office regularly. It's been amazing. I feel like an actual adult human again instead of a parent/employee trying to hold on to various threads to keep everything from becoming undone.

• by sillysaurusx on 7/5/21, 3:08 PM

  As someone with narcolepsy, the pandemic is the single most wonderful-terrible thing that could have happened. When the black plague struck Europe, the survivors found themselves inheriting immense wealth. I feel sort of similarly, because for the first time I can participate normally in a traditional office environment -- because the tradition is now to use Zoom and not to have your ass in a seat from 9 to 5. I wake up each day not quite believing my luck.

  I really empathize from the other angle too, where people who are used to a normal environment don't want to WFH. But a lot of their hatred may be due to their awful environment they put up with. (A lot of it might not be, either! Different people like different things.)

  As I said elsewhere, a lot of people seem to feel they can't change it, or they put up with distractions, or they don't worry about setting boundaries, or the equipment is subpar compared to the office.

  One day my wife and I set a trap for my father in law. I nudged her to keep working, since she had unconsciously started fooling around online because of the inevitable story that FIL was going to walk in and tell, like clockwork. The moment he came in to tell his story without asking, I said "Heyo! So, I didn't understand until a few days ago, but it's best that, before you do this, mentally teleport yourself into her office and imagine you're standing next to her coworkers."

  It made all the difference, and I haven't seen him do it since. He was super understanding too. I'd been guilty of the same thing; it's easy to forget that WFH means "you need office boundaries at home."

• by defaultname on 7/5/21, 3:14 PM

  The sedentary thing is orthogonal. I have worked from home for years and remain far more active than I could be in an office without being weird. Having an Apple Watch -- or any similar fitness tracker for that matter -- can definitely help towards this.

  I love working from home. However it is a constant battle to ensure that others understand that it really is working. That I don't have flex time to do anything at any time. I might have the agency to be able to, but I also have goals and inertia and focus that I want to feed and that are very important to me.

  As to interruptions, that really is case by case. I completely shut out peers when I want to (to be frank, fuck your noisy, useless, attention sucking slack chat/discord/IRC and anything else where anyone has expectations of synchronous responses), and have been lucky to be in a position to do so. I also just shut my phone off when I don't want calls. If I couldn't do that, work interruptions would be a disaster. However it's a bit more tough on the family front where my wife, for instance, feels pretty slighted if I can't engage in a conversation whenever something comes to her. However many calm explanations have occurred, if you're in the same house it's tough for people to perceive you as unavailable.

• by nubb on 7/5/21, 3:09 PM

  These articles are so low quality. Some ppl WFH better, some ppl prefer an office. This isn't ground breaking philosophy and the endless articles repeating the same basic idea is just boring now. /rant

• by dukeofdoom on 7/5/21, 3:25 PM

  To me the home office wins out by a lot:

  Small cubicle with no window near by is a common office situation. Lack of exposure to sun disrupts the circadian rhythm. Vs Sitting next to a window at home.

  Many Office AC systems don't filter the air from pollutants adequately. Cheap office carpets tend to have all kinds of chemicals that off gas. No way to open a window to get fresh air. Vs the typical home office with a window to the side you can open anytime.

  I was in an office where the secretaries farts would rise and accumulate in a dead zone at the second story stair well. No more smelling other peoples farts or getting their flue.

  Sitting prolonged times in a chair, and not being to take a bathroom break for long times. Not only uncomfortable, also unhealthy. Vs a chair I pick, and a standing desk, and short breaks anytime I want.

  Listening to music on headphones vs a radio playing in the background at home. Headphones damage hearing.

• by relax88 on 7/5/21, 3:07 PM

  Every single problem listed with working from home also applies to at least some subset of office environments.

  At least with a home office I can attempt to make my environment better instead of just accepting whatever my employer provides.

• by barbazoo on 7/5/21, 3:15 PM

  I think we've established now that WFH is either the best thing that ever happened to you or complete misery. It 100% depends on your home, your mental health, your social life, your own needs, etc.

  Whatever your preference, it's ok and you don't have to justify that preference.

• by nsxwolf on 7/5/21, 3:08 PM

  I have been WFH since 2005 across 4 jobs. There has always been a little anxiety when the jobs ended that I would not be able to find a new one.

  I am holding out hope that the ratio of WFH jobs will remain permanently increased after this, even if it isn’t a tectonic shift.

• by MattGaiser on 7/5/21, 3:02 PM

  I would be interested in a poll on WFH attitudes that just looked at home office vs work office setups. How many people have a primary motivation of a crappy home office?

• by loloquwowndueo on 7/5/21, 3:10 PM

  Many of the things the article mentions are also an issue if working from an office (clearly author has never had the office next door undergoing noisy renovations).

  Some others are due to an improper setup: no door/ private space can also be an issue in an open-plan office and at home, if faced with the prospect of long-term wfh, one can and should condition a proper, closeable space to work in. This mitigates most of the distraction-oriented complaints.

  As to “i’m always working” - what’s needed here is the discipline of closing your computer at X time. Having a separate space really helps with that, otherwise just close the computer and chuck it in a drawer.

  I fully understand wfh is not for everyone. However, one must realize when the main benefit of an office is imposing on you the discipline you’d need to have on your own if working at home.

• by 29athrowaway on 7/5/21, 5:42 PM

  If you work from home that means you are free to move anywhere you want, like a more affordable place that meets your needs.

  Once you are living in a place with enough space, working from home is much healthier experience than going to an office, provided that you invest in your home office and keep your home clean.

  If you take all the money that you spent yearly on transportation to the office and invest it in a home setup, you'll have a pretty neat home office in no time. There are many YouTube videos with ideas for home office decorations.

• by treespace8 on 7/5/21, 3:13 PM

  I just don't understand these articles. The office isn't going anywhere. Don't worry, if you want to work in an office that option is not going away.

  Working in the same physical space as management will aways have an edge on remote workers. That's why it won't be going anywhere.

  I can only speak for myself, but I feel that for many of us this is a once in a lifetime chance to establish working for home as a completely viable, respected choice. I don't want to move up, I just want to do my job in peace.

• by imbnwa on 7/6/21, 1:04 AM

  I've generally found office environments to be about everything but the business mission at hand, which is the sole purview of a managerial class which, simply based on the fact that it cannot physically be the case that the majority of managers are competent, relies on information hiding to exert its competency and the rest of the labor force is basically standing around playing at high school until assignments come down the pipe as they are relieved from having to actually be invested in a common goal. Labor turnover is about every 2 - 3 years, since, again, no one is invested in anything, management about every 5 years.

  Better to work from home then entertain a myriad of diversions and mirages of working in an office.

• by motohagiography on 7/5/21, 3:21 PM

  Tangentially, can we anticipate a spike next year in family home sales inventory as they get sold because post-lockdown couples are divorcing?

  From a macro view, a lot of things that have been postponed for 18-24 months will likely happen all at once. Given the trajectory to normal, whatever that was, it will have been almost 2 years of artificially suppressed volatility in a lot of places, and a lot of stuff is going to roar back.

• by izzydata on 7/5/21, 3:20 PM

  Soon my company will be switching to 3 days in the office being mandatory with 2 days being optional in office or at home. I suppose just having all 5 days being either one would be best, but it's an ok compromise.

• by m3kw9 on 7/5/21, 3:20 PM

  It’s toxic for some.

  An office space, desk, power, AC, coffee provided by your employer is nice if you can’t get a decent one yourself. It’s all trade offs between travel, free time, quiet space, social.

• by dominotw on 7/5/21, 3:03 PM

  I've been seeing lots of candidates trying to get at job at my current employer because we allow remote work. People are willing to forego their faang compensations.

• by xwdv on 7/5/21, 2:57 PM

  You know what we need? Something that is the equivalent of a blue check mark for remote workers.

  The check mark would mean that this worker has a home office setup that meets or exceeds standards for remote work. The certification process can be handled by a neutral third party.

  The standards would be stringent, a laptop on on some corner desk wouldn’t quality. You must have a room with a door that can be closed IMO. Maybe there can be tiers though.

  Edit: I don’t get the downvotes, does this comment really lower the level of discourse, or do people just hate this idea so much?