by pietrofmaggi on 6/29/21, 6:28 AM with 111 comments
by 4wsn on 6/29/21, 8:19 AM
From an enthusiast perspective, I have no issues with an electric powertrain. The concept has a lot of promise once the implementation matures. The current issues I have with electric _powertrains_ (not vehicles) are: Relatively short battery lifespan, high replacement cost. Unrealistic range estimates. I live in Germany and the range is pathetic when traveling at actual Autobahn speeds, which is further worsened during the times of year when heating or cooling is required. Poor high speed performance, except in higher price brackets.
The thing that these enthusiast-directed EV articles always seem to miss is this point.
> Most car companies are adopting use of modern operating systems in their new cars. Most companies seem to couple this generational leap in in-car systems to their EV launches. If you, like me, want the best UX of the in-car system the quickest, it’s an EV you need to get.
I'm not interested in an iPad on wheels. The ideal UX in a car should be as unobtrusive as possible. I should set my destination, select my playlist, and never have to interact with a touchscreen until I arrive at my destination. I have yet to see an EV that sticks to this philosophy. The new Porsche Taycan climate control vents are controlled via touchscreen, for example. This is insane.
As for the environmental aspect, well, I'm probably going to regret saying this openly. We live in a fully industrialized world. Unless we're all willing to go back to using wind power to transport cargo and carriages to transport people, while simultaneously getting the world population back to pre-industrial levels, it's a bit too late. I don't think you're going to be saving anything with your EV. The messaging around this topic is akin to a man who burned his house down and is now discussing smoke alarms. It's too late, my friend.
by toxik on 6/29/21, 7:55 AM
… which is exactly what most power users are still doing with terminals and tooling that is as old as modern computing. Did he just inadvertently argue against his own point?
There are many great arguments for EVs, but this text missed the mark completely.
by buro9 on 6/29/21, 7:57 AM
However... I'd still argue if you have a car today that you own... Stretch ownership to another 5 years.
I'm currently on vacation in the lake District in the UK and the car I have is Volvo T8 twin engine. I can't charge this thing anywhere. Charging spots in hotels aren't available to non residents, the solitary charging spots in car parks are taken, and the cottage I'm in has a very strange weak circuit that I can't charge the car from. Anecdotally I've seen no Tesla's or Porsche Taycan, or even Leaf's... Those were left behind at the M6.
It feels like infrastructure has yet to really catch up to need. It will. But today, if you still own a hybrid, ICE, twin engine... Keep it a while longer.
By that time Polestar and the like will have incredible cars available for less than the current price. The wait will be worth it.
by mnd999 on 6/29/21, 7:55 AM
by roschdal on 6/29/21, 7:57 AM
Petrol cars are significantly cheaper to buy.
Petrol cars refuel significantly faster than electronic cars recharge.
Petrol cars don't have a costly battery which degrades over time and pollutes.
by busterarm on 6/29/21, 7:56 AM
What we don't like are cars plagued by build quality issues and that we're not even _allowed_ by the manufacturer to wrench on it ourselves (a quality we also strongly dislike about modern ICE cars as well). The black box nature is what makes it antithetical.
The rates that Teslas are getting totaled out for what should be repairable issues are also a hot issue for us.
by cpursley on 6/29/21, 8:26 AM
Your gut (more burnt calories), wallet (no vehicle expenses) and family (less commuting and more family time) will thank you.
by paganel on 6/29/21, 8:08 AM
Yeah, no, not all of us have enough money to have had as our first car a "Honda Civic type-R". Probably the title should read be more like: "If You're At Least Comfortably Middle-Class The Next Car You Buy Should Be Electric".
But of course all this push to EVs is a huge regressive tax applied to the less-off people which is constantly ignored from the public discourse, so this type of attitude does not surprise me at all.
by Lio on 6/29/21, 8:21 AM
"I'm not someone dorkily obsessed with an ordinary, everyday item. I'm a glamorous petrol head! Just like Jeremy and the boys."
Car. Nerd. :P
by uniqueuid on 6/29/21, 7:50 AM
>old-school petrolheads screaming … that part of the fun is to be pat of the machine … It’s like the old-school nerds refusing to adopt graphical user interfaces in the 80s.
Give me bazaar-style composable UIs and I'll stop being an old-school nerd. Don't have any? Thought so!
by in3d on 6/29/21, 8:00 AM
by wink on 6/29/21, 12:34 PM
I live in Munich, a big city in Germany. I know zero people who live in an apartment (like I do) who can reasonably use an EV. All the friends and acquaintances who own an EV have a house with a garage, and thus they have no problems charging (incidentally none of them reside IN the city with their houses, because they're not millionaires). I'd have to go the supermarket parking lot, which is the only charging spot in a 1km radius that I know of. I don't think (although I haven't asked) if the building owner would be up for putting up charging in our parking lot. I somehow doubt it.
I've yet to hear any even remotely sensible solution.
by ppf on 6/29/21, 8:19 AM
Exporting your CO2 emissions to other countries (in the form of battery manufacture) does not achieve this goal. If anything, it's worse, because other countries like China will happily burn brown coal to power their factories.
And if it really is so important to stop CO2 emissions, then I'm surprised the author of this article raved about the touchscreens and other electronic gadgets present in all EVs, as they are incredibly resource- and energy- intensive to manufacture (equivalent to the energy needed to drive 1000s of miles), and are not necessary. In fact, I'm surprised the author can tell us that we should enjoy the driving pleasure of EVs, which seems a completely luxurious thing in an article telling us we need to make significant changes to our lifestyle to save the environment.
Also - the author only managed 1000km in one year on an ebike? That's embarassing, and makes it hard to justify the manufacturing expense in energy and materials of the battery and motor. I've had to start driving to work on more days, as I don't have the energy now I have two kids, but I still manage 2,500km of commuting per year on a regular bike (which is older than me), and on a very hilly route.
by ruslan on 6/29/21, 8:36 AM
by yoav on 6/29/21, 11:49 PM
Most my city driving is within the electric only range, so I basically never need to fill it up, but with a full charge and tank of gas it’s over 1,000km of range.
While I’ll be able to charge it at grocery store or wherever if a charging spot is available to basically get free range, and charge it at home whenever I want, I won’t be reliant on charging and can get the best of both worlds when I choose.
I intend to drive it over the next few years which gets close to the 2035 goalpost many countries have of deprecating ICE cars, and as electric and charging becomes cheaper and fewer people use gas at all I can pick what type of fuel to use (petrol or electric) based on what’s cheapest that week/month.
PHEV are also up to half the cost of comparable full electric.
I think if I never had to consider longer trips (2-4 hours of driving into the country) and I had access to a reliable at home charging I’d go electric tomorrow.
I feel like for the next 1-5 years PHEV makes more sense for my situation.
by tayo42 on 6/29/21, 8:15 AM
The section about noise though is right, idk why we torture our selves with noise pollution. And how did people ever start to think they're cool by making more noise. Theres very few engines that sound good, and even then like the article said theres only very few times they should be heard.
In general Im frustrated by this whole idea of fixing the climate by having individual consumers change their habits. We all know its pointless, we know what the big problems are and yet we still want all of us little people to pitch in. We really need to start going after the big polluters. Us little people will be doing plenty of "pitching in" after corporations punish us by passing their new costs on down to consumers.
by dlsa on 6/29/21, 8:14 AM
For charging, EVs aren't an issue for me since I'd use mine for commute and the range of most of them is plenty sufficient enough I'd only need to recharge every week. For country driving I'd still be relatively ok if I had a trailer.
That trailer requirement is not for fun. Its not optional or a "nice thing to have". I'd expect a EV to be a real vehicle and not some entertainment or otherwise toy. I frankly don't care about EVs for status purposes such as a sports car used to impress. It would be replacing my current workhorse commute vehicle and frankly none of the current EVs are actual competitors yet in realistic ways.
by drivingmenuts on 6/29/21, 1:47 PM
Until the EV infrastructure is as universal and simple as gas-power, it’s not an option.
by bartread on 6/29/21, 8:16 AM
Also, basic practicalities: when I visit my parents there's no charging facility where they live so on at least some trips where the driving is more than just there and back I'd have to spend an hour driving somewhere, charging the car, and then driving back - time I'd rather spend with them given I'm often only with them for a day or two.
by mindracer on 6/29/21, 8:01 AM
by vishnugupta on 6/29/21, 8:22 AM
The charging network in India is next to non-existent but I was OK to risk it and figure out a way to get it installed in my apartment.
To compensate for the lack of charging network I need the range to be 700-800 KM so that I can use it for highway runs. But the ones that are available advertise somewhere between 300-400 KM which translates to 200-300 KM real world.
So I bit the bullet and bought an ICE car. I really hope the range improves in next 5 years. Otherwise electric cars are only viable to those who can afford a 2nd car in India.
by taylodl on 6/29/21, 3:16 PM
Bottom line? The next car I buy is almost certain to have an internal combustion engine.
by mytailorisrich on 6/29/21, 8:16 AM
If you need a new car right now, it's still cheaper and probably more practical to buy a petrol car.
If you do not need a new car right now, I think trying to keep your current car for another 5+ years then buying an EV may make sense (probably including for the environment).
EV are taking off but it seems to me that they are still mostly bought by people with higher-than-average income and/or who are engaged on this issue.
by adflux on 6/29/21, 8:11 AM
I have to travel long distances for my job occasionally, and I don't get paid to wait at a charging station.
by Causality1 on 6/29/21, 8:16 AM
by apricot13 on 6/29/21, 9:22 AM
by senectus1 on 6/29/21, 8:14 AM
After that I don't really care too much and would love to buy electric.
But I don't see much in that space that fits that bill. (in my state/country anyhow)
by Neil44 on 6/29/21, 8:13 AM
by bwf93 on 6/29/21, 3:59 PM
by keymone on 6/29/21, 8:11 AM
by nathias on 6/29/21, 8:21 AM