from Hacker News

EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

by xendo on 5/25/21, 7:00 AM with 405 comments

  • by mcky on 5/25/21, 10:37 AM

    Worth noting in all of this that Belarus recently closed their land borders to citizens [1], under the guise of COVID, but in reality to stop people leaving. The only way out was flying from Minsk, which is now even less of an option if there are no flights to the EU.

    As others have said these sanctions will likely do more to harm the repressed citizens of the regime than Lukashenko

    [1] https://www.bnt.eu/cs/zpravy/pravni-novinky/3137-belarus-int...

  • by stanpinte on 5/25/21, 9:11 AM

    This is not exact, the EU ban decision is not taken yet. see link here: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021...

        "- calls on the Council to adopt the necessary measures to ban overflight of EU airspace by Belarusian airlines and prevent access to EU airports of flights operated by such airlines;"
    decision has still to be made by the council, and then - to my understanding - implemented by all member states one by one. It's a typical example of media interpretation of facts.

    See here https://en.belavia.by/news/4674378/ -> Belavia confirms UK and FR banned, but it was their decision.

  • by tremon on 5/25/21, 10:05 AM

    Only half-related detail, the European track cycling championships are in Minsk next month: http://www.uec.ch/en/event/149/2021-uec-track-elite-european...

    The Dutch cycling union is now recommending its athletes not to compete there.

  • by matkoniecz on 5/25/21, 8:47 AM

    Nice that something more than strongly worded letters was done.

  • by nomercy400 on 5/25/21, 10:03 AM

    I am surprised Hungary agreed. And Poland.

    The governments in those nations are not shy to touch on the freedoms of their population, and often disagree with the EU when the EU points these things out. Also Poland being directly next to Belarus will affect their relations.

  • by ceilingcorner on 5/25/21, 9:46 AM

    Unfortunately, the real losers of this situation will be the Belarusian people, many of whom have immigrated to nearby countries like Poland or Germany. They will now (probably) be unable to visit family members easily, as flights will have to reroute through Istanbul or Russia.

    Pretty much the same situation with Iran. Actions intended to punish an unjust government mostly just hurt their citizens.

  • by helsinkiandrew on 5/25/21, 8:53 AM

    I wasn't sure how big Belarusian airlines was, but their summer 2021 timetable shows a number of flights to Europe:

    https://en.belavia.by/webroot/delivery/files/TimeTable_en_s2...

    They appear to have 30 planes split between Boeing and Embraer:

    https://en.belavia.by/company/air_fleet/

  • by threwaway4392 on 5/25/21, 10:16 AM

    Sanctions appear tough but will isolate the Belarusian people even more.

    The EU could up their game by recognizing the democratically elected Belarusian individuals as the rightful government in exile, and propose to kick-start EU integration talks with them. That would send a strong support message to the Belarusian people.

  • by Aeolun on 5/25/21, 11:59 AM

    I don’t understand how any of this stuff is even ok.

    If any random person had done this, the police would be after them to arrest them for kidnapping, but because it’s a nation state doing this the only thing that happens is closed airspace?

    I feel like there should be something we can do that wouldn’t be a slap on the wrist.

  • by sneak on 5/25/21, 9:45 AM

    The part of TFA that seems to be glossed over in the comments here is that Belarus released a video in the last 12 hours of him confessing to "crimes", which was presumably extracted under physical duress.

  • by MichaelMoser123 on 5/25/21, 9:32 AM

    i think what is not quite understood is the show aspect of the whole story: the secret services of Belarus (and probably allied Russia as well) are trying to awe the population of their countries into obedience by setting an example: 'look, we can do everything'. Interesting that this is exactly the behavior that one would see from some street gang, it's not what one would expect from a state.

    interesting detail: some civil rights activists in Russia are taking this as an open threat: https://gulagu.net/news/2021-05-24-746.html The gulagu.net project is stopping all activities inside Russia for fear of reprisals, since "the capture and arrest of Protasevich is bearing witness of the fact that Lukashenko and Putin are now no longer even trying to hide anything, and that they are ready to act out open reprisals against those they disapprove of. ... We understand that no limitations exist any more and that the secret services are literally ready to do everything."

    "... с целью захвата и ареста Протасевича свидетельствует о том, что Лукашенко и Путин теперь уже даже не скрывают ничего и готовы действовать открыто с целью организации расправы с неугодными ... Мы понимаем, что более никаких ограничений не существует и спецура готова в буквальном смысле на всё."

    i have the feeling that this will be a good test case; someone is trying to test the resolve and responses of the European Union. Interesting what will happen next (in other words: someone might be doing some integration testing here).

  • by thepangolino on 5/25/21, 8:50 AM

    Is there such a thing as flags of convenience for planes?

  • by beyondcompute on 5/25/21, 11:06 AM

    It feels like the ban hits ordinary citizens more. The rich and the powerful (including politicians) won’t be affected as much. :(

  • by iansowinski on 5/25/21, 11:18 AM

    I think that Giedroyc Doctrine is worth mentioning here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giedroyc_Doctrine

  • by h3cate on 5/25/21, 12:33 PM

    I suppose they'll be banning us airlines too for forcing the Bolivian PMs plane to land in Vienna when looking for Snowden?

  • by 75dvtwin on 5/25/21, 9:02 PM

    One might, briefly, struggle with this question:

    Can a cabal of morally bankrupt bribe-takers wielding selective-outrage-justice weapons against own citizens (Marine Le Pen, Trump, and their supporters)

    be scolding another, less-presentable Dictator?

    And the Obama admin behavior [1] with the attempted Snowden plane intercept, is not much different either, I agree..

    [1] https://www.france24.com/en/20130703-bolivia-president-evo-m...

  • by garfieldnate on 5/26/21, 12:28 PM

    That statement from Joe Biden really irks me, given the treatment of whistle blowers, most famously Edward Snowden, during his last administration.

  • by Giorgi on 5/25/21, 12:16 PM

    Yes, that will show em

  • by bellyfullofbac on 5/25/21, 9:58 AM

    Wonder what the geo-political consequences could be. What if Big Brother Putin now says all EU planes are banned from flying over Russia.

    Or what if Russian ATC are ordered to route planes flying from the east to Belarussian airspace. Of course there's probably a bit of freedom to choose routes by pilots, but if I were Putin I'd just say (or tell my ATC to say): "those routes are closed because of military training, your only available route is here through Belarussia"

  • by Sporktacular on 5/25/21, 11:46 AM

    Politically convenient amnesia is on full display again: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/24/opinion/belarus-plane-pro...

    The US pressured Austria to do the same - for a head of state's airplane - while looking for Snowden.

    It's not whataboutism - both are abuses of power, but the sanctimony is just unbearable.

  • by atemerev on 5/25/21, 11:09 AM

    So, now every Belarusian who didn't agree with the regime and wanted to leave the country will be stuck there.

  • by ddddq on 5/25/21, 10:50 AM

    As a european (german) I can say, that this is mostly just show. Why?

    For once, only Belarus Airline will be suspended to fly in the EU. The other european airlines will still fly to and over Belarus, giving them money. For example, Lufthansa still wants to fly to Belarus and doesn't seem to care at all about solidarity with other european airlines.

    Money talks louder. And then people who don't have the time to research often don't know that Belarus is a important economical partner for german firms. The trade with Germany makes up around 5% of the GDP of Belarus and many german firms are (in)directly supporting Lukaschenko and his regime. It just isn't really known to the public.

    Therefor, if Germany really wanted it, big and impactful sanctions would easily be possible. The airline banning isn't really meaningful to Lukaschenko at all, they will rebrand the airline and fly from Moscow as Russia is their most important ally.

    And the thing is, that Germany still has the same problems with other trade partners. Germany still sells weapons to Turkey, Saudi-Arabia or Azerbaijan. Even if this countries did work or are currently working against european partners and neighbours. Even if these countries are violating human rights. A subject that Germany likes to teach to other european countries.

    Germany has the problem, that their economy is really connected and dependent on states that are violating human rights, are working and fighting against EU member states and are even starting to dictate german firms what they can and should do to be able to do their business (Belarus, Saudi-Arabia, Azerbaijan). It's levels above the USA and worse. One of the biggest firm in Germany, VW, is cooperating with Chinas ethnical cleansing and using Uyghurs working force as cheap labour. This or they just coincidentally build their new factories just hundreds of meters away from the concentration camps and Uyghurs are just coincidentally walking from the factory to the concentration camp.

  • by thu2111 on 5/25/21, 9:07 AM

    But how often do Lukashenko and his circle actually fly out of Belarus anyway? He already had no problem with closing his own borders before anyway, so it's not like this is going to seem like a strong move to him and it only really hurts the Belarusian people.

  • by EugeneOZ on 5/25/21, 10:13 AM

    Whom they are punishing? Elites use private jets and will just laugh at that. Regular Belarusians will have difficulties, yes.

  • by therusskiy on 5/25/21, 9:21 AM

    EU gets to appear "tough" while, unfortunately, this is only going to hurt people of Belarus. This is only going to help Lukashenko's narrative that the West is plotting against Belarus.

  • by k1m on 5/25/21, 10:12 AM

    Glenn Greenwald's latest piece on this:

    > What Belarus did, while illegal, is not unprecedented. The dangerous tactic was pioneered by the same U.S. and E.U. officials now righteously condemning it.

    https://greenwald.substack.com/p/as-anger-toward-belarus-mou...

  • by anotheryou on 5/25/21, 10:41 AM

    What an arbitrary sanction. What do Belarusian airlines have to do with any of this?

    The only value of picking airlines over anything else must be of symbolic nature. Unless maybe you see it as "balancing the competition" if other airlines loose the flights to belarus and have to use more fuel avoiding the airspace.