from Hacker News

UK and Norway fail to reach fishing deal

by martpie on 4/30/21, 9:41 AM with 97 comments

by moksly on 4/30/21, 10:44 AM
It’s really silly to see how there fishing industry was used in the Brexit ordeal. This is bad of course, and it’s exactly what they were told would happen, but it’s also just 32 million pounds. Compare that to the 300 billion worth of exports and wonder why fishing was ever a part of the debate at all.
I mean, I know why it was. It’s a nice mom-and-pop-family is suffering from the evil EU sort of image, but man it’s just wild how manipulative the anti-EU campaigns were and how successful it turned out to be for them.
The fishers are of course a magical sort of people. I mean, how could you not realise that leaving the EU would be stupid when you’re catching all your fish in Norwegian waters? Or when your entire export goes to Southern Europe because your own population mostly eats salmon and cod?
Also begs to question who the hell benefitted from all this.
by fergie on 4/30/21, 10:57 AM
Its worth noting that the UK fishing industry is dominated by a handful of mega-trawlers that are under largely international ownership, and therefore its not clear that the UK _should_ be using its diplomatic power to seek concessions on behalf of these interests.
See also "Brexit trade deal: Who really owns UK fishing quotas?" -> https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116
by PedroBatista on 4/30/21, 12:31 PM
Wait until the level below the ultra-elites find out EU countries aren't "quite lovely" anymore for their usual shenanigans.
Some even will very shaken when they learn this isn't India and the 19th century was more than a century ago. :)
On a more serious note, except for some specific ones, UK's problems are problems shared by most western societies, but handled in a comically tragic way. Also the government approved money laundering at cosmic proportions that has been going on for decades now is another big factor for the "inexplicably" low standard of life many people have compared to what they think they would have. Not only those deals with the many devils have a cost but also an opportunity cost in time wasted not doing any meaningful reforms deluding the population into keep doing the rat race and when they get nothing, blame the EU.
by jjgreen on 4/30/21, 9:57 AM
The Schadenfreude of seeing this predominantly Brexit crowd getting stuffed is tinged with sadness that the price of cod & chips will soon be through the roof.
by altacc on 4/30/21, 11:00 AM
The UK thinks its fishing industry is important but Norway knows its fishing industry is important.
This is not a surprise. The influence of the industry is not to be underestimated in either country but in the UK it's a small industry with a lot of emotional baggage, especially for those supporting Brexit as it's linked to the idea of territory, even though much fishing is outside of UK waters. In Norway it's a major industry, they're one of the biggest exporters in the world and it forms a large part of the country's income. There was no way that Norwegian politicians were ever going to do anything that upset the industry. Brexit was a big win for Norwegian fisheries in a zero sum game.
by eivindga on 4/30/21, 11:34 AM
The Norwegian fishing industry has commented a bit on the failed talks. It seems the UK negotiators wanted to modify the long running agreement on joint zone access.
Some quotes: "Unfriendly action from the British"
"Norway's entry into the negotiations has been the maintenance of the traditional and historical fishing patterns Norwegian fishermen have had in British waters.
- The British have responded with a number of demands and conditions that are not in line with this, and which it was impossible for Norway to accept. "
"- The lack of concessions on zone access came as a bit of a surprise to us"
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...
by ChrisRR on 4/30/21, 10:42 AM
Who would've thought historically bad negotiators have trouble negotiating trade deals?
by quijoteuniv on 4/30/21, 11:17 AM
This does not even seem to have reached the Norwegian media. Although an article fromladt year mention Norwegian vessel fishing 20% of their catch in Uk water
by jacknews on 4/30/21, 1:58 PM
Hunting wild animals for food, especially at the incredible industrial scale that we currently do, is not sustainable, and should be banned in any case.
by raverbashing on 4/30/21, 10:25 AM
Sounds like they're getting what they voted for.
by foolmeonce on 4/30/21, 11:38 AM
At least the cod get a break from the UK. We've been hearing about this lovely idea by the british to go it alone since 2016?
Countries should be thinking less about any potential with the UK and more about how to block any dependencies on new trade with them to be able to step out of this time sink of a drama.
by Chris2048 on 4/30/21, 10:58 AM
Hmm, this article doesn't really spell out the balance. So, why is it a disgrace? because brits like Arctic fish? Also, "UK fleets landed fish worth £32m in Norwegian waters" - how much (£m) in fish where landed in UK waters by foreign boats as part of the quota trade?
The quote about how terrible this is comes from "UK Fisheries chief executive Jane Sandell", but later is reveals Sandell owns a business that "catches around 10% of all the fish sold in the UK's chip shops" which I assume to be those arctic fish - another [1]article reveals:
```
  One trawler, which catches 10% of fish sold in chip shops, will be tied up for a year following the collapse in talks.
```
That trawler appears to be owned by Sandells company:
```
  her firm having only 40% of the fishing opportunities of previous years
```
Unless the entire British fishing industry fishes exclusively outside British waters, it seems a pretty big bias to proclaim the opinion of someone with such a massive stake in access to Norwegian fish.
And here's another [2]article revealing a little of the British water side:
```
  £160m worth of England's fishing quota is in the hands of vessels owned by companies based in Iceland, Spain and the Netherlands
```
Well, maybe we should freely trade our respective fishes, rather than have UK based trawlers travel all the way to the Arctic? There might even be a reduced emissions benefit somewhere in there.
Edit:
Here's a site some more answers:
https://ukfisheries.net/about-distant-fishing/qsas
I was unsatisfied to the answer about why cod fishing isn't done locally, so here's an interesting [3]article:
```
  In 2019, 70% of the UK’s seafood was exported to Europe and Asia with an end value of over $2bn. .. over 90% of the cod consumed by the UK’s domestic market is imported

  cod from Iceland, the largest importer into the UK, is 38% more expensive than cod exported from the UK.

  the UK is exporting an unsustainable cod catch because British waters have been overfished for decades
```
So, why not fix this by matching tariff on imported cod with tariffs on exported seafood (if necessary), and then learn to either fish sustainably, or learn how to trade with Norway and live with the price of (good) fish.
What I do find strange, is how Britain apparently lacks the fishing industry capable of fishing their own waters, but cod is overfished in them, very selective. But again, why isn't this fixed in trade rather than quotas?
[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56940914
[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/52420116
[3] https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2020/11/16/Fishy-busin...