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Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

by sp3n on 1/25/21, 3:01 PM with 87 comments

• by johnnybaptist on 1/25/21, 5:00 PM

  I work at OpenBCI. It's been great getting to work with Gabe and the Valve team. Can't overstate how unique they are as partners on a project like this. Also cool to see OpenBCI (sortof) in the top 10 today :)

  Happy to answer any questions people have about OpenBCI https://openbci.com/

• by bwood on 1/25/21, 4:04 PM

  All the talk of implants makes me wonder what's possible without a direct physical link to the brain. Like using an EEG to measure brain signals and transform them into instructions, images, etc. Here's some research where they use the EEG to train a model that reconstructs what people are seeing in their visual cortex [0]

  All the reconstructions are super low resolution, but I wonder how much better they can get? I'd be much more open to brain-computer interfaces if it didn't involve drilling through my skull.

  [0] https://scitechdaily.com/image-reconstruction-from-human-bra...

• by offtop5 on 1/25/21, 4:26 PM

  This scares me a bit.

  Let's say you have certain nero indicators which indicate person X may do Y .

  Do you we then minority report lock up people.

  At the same time , it's going to be amazing for people in a coma or unable to communicate. We could have a fantastic amazing world, where we effectively live forever via some type of matrix like interface.

• by Justsignedup on 1/25/21, 4:58 PM

  Heh. Remember back in the day when pacemakers were being hacked remotely because admin passwords weren't even changed from the default, on top of outdated wireless protocols? Oh right that's today!

  Hardware makers often aren't good at software, not to mention software updates. And even that gets wonky, like when Microsoft update got hijacked.

  Point is, if we can't get IoT 100% right, or even 90% right, how can we trust IoT with physical interfaces into our bodies? That's the problem. And then what happens if the company who made your implant goes out of business? What do you do when those updates stop? Look at cellphones, supporting a cellphone for 2 years is too much for most hardware makers, they rather never update it.

  Point is, even if the tech is 100% possible, we're way too far from business setups that allow for this to happen.

• by spike021 on 1/25/21, 6:35 PM

  I'm not a huge anime person, but there's one I've watched that seems a bit relevant. In _Accel World_, they wear this thing on their neck called a "Neurolink" and basically are able to connect to things like the Internet or private networks (school, home, hospital) wirelessly with it. I believe it takes over signals coming to and from the brain. But they also have a wired connection mode so they can do that or do a special direct, wired connection with someone they are close to.

  The ramifications of access like that are described surprisingly well in the show.

  For instance, two close friends (they're in a relationship but young enough I'd just consider them close friends) use the direct wired connection feature because they feel comfortable enough doing so. But at some point one of them decides to use that private access to plant a virus of sorts. While the purpose is irrelevant here, it does show how brain connections, especially between people, can become increasingly vulnerable.

  The main plot point of the anime though, is this game application that can be installed to the Neurolink, and basically it has the ability to also wipe away or hide memories.

  While what Newell is talking about is still a ways away, it's interesting to consider exactly what we may need to be worried about when the time comes.

• by 5440 on 1/25/21, 6:26 PM

  I do a significant amount of breakthrough device fda/eu regulatory work in the BCI area. For those interested, its worth reading the FDA guidance: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidan....

• by johnnybaptist on 1/25/21, 3:58 PM

  big fan of his point that the technology is moving so fast that it doesn't make sense to lock-in and go mass market yet

• by gnramires on 1/25/21, 4:38 PM

  One of the things I wish the most technologically is simply being able to record my thoughts. Sometimes in the middle of a stream of thought going back and putting it on paper, taking notes disrupts the process somewhat. Also obviously translating visual imagination and recollection is more difficult (more for someone that wasn't trained artistically). My memory is imperfect too and I've forgotten a few ideas I thought were amazing because I didn't write them down at the right time.

  I, for one, welcome the mind-reading devices.

  I'm sure it'll be limited by physical contact so I'm not much worried about some science fiction scenarios. However, the implications for police are indeed worrisome, enough it should warrant specific legislation as soon as possible (i.e. non-consent mind reading should be made a grave crime, and a war crime, as soon as the technology is available)

• by Minor49er on 1/25/21, 4:32 PM

  I thought that it was interesting that Gabe was using The Matrix as a comparison for BCIs since that movie was a warning about what this kind of tech could bring, but he did express a lot of concern around more real-world ramifications around what this technology could bring if it wasn't properly used or secured. What he was describing then reminded me more of the movie Strange Days where people would use neural connectors to record and play back experiences from others, but amplifying the signal too much would result in scrambled neurons.

• by tartoran on 1/25/21, 5:53 PM

  > the experiences that you will have are things that you will be created and edited for you [..] > sleep will now become an app that you will run where you say I need this much sleep, I need this much REM

  I find this to go in a bizarre awkward direction. We as humans have self regulating capabilities that are to be tapped with some "self work". Is that a bad thing? Why are we trying to change that and create an app to control bodily functions? Our brain is perfectly capable of handling that and has been for millions of years in our ancestors

• by bullen on 1/25/21, 6:06 PM

  I think VR could use non-fresnel lenses and better ways to adapt your vision in the headset, ironically the DK1&2 had lenscups which now are found in zero headsets.

  I keep my old glasses that are smaller to be able to fit them in my vive, but that makes development inconcievable: Remove terminal/monitor glasses and put on old glasses and then the headset every time I need to test something in VR. Nope I'm not doing that.

  Also why are the media business still adding fake laughter and annoying background music to everything they touch?

• by pugworthy on 1/25/21, 5:32 PM

  HP is getting into basic (compared to GabeN's ideas) work in this area with the Omnicept VR headset. It looks like eye tracking, pupillometry sensor, heart rate, and a face camera. Not direct neurotechnology but none the less using data to better understand and adapt to the user's response to VR.

  https://www8.hp.com/us/en/vr/reverb-g2-vr-headset-omnicept-e...

• by meee on 1/25/21, 6:52 PM

  The link below shows up on occasion and is a good reminder that not only do we need to keep up with physical/practical trust but philosophical as well.

  https://marshallbrain.com/manna

  (It explores implants and using them vs. being used by them.)

• by m463 on 1/25/21, 9:40 PM

  This is the kind of technology that needs ironclad opt-in privacy.

  Valve collects lots of data - that you can't turn off - and doesn't let you opt out.

  (see if you can ask them to stop collecting time played in games or "achievements" or whatever)

• by piracy1 on 1/26/21, 5:05 AM

  Gabe was like, Oh, you want half life? Oh, you'll get it, don't worry.

• by marmalar on 1/25/21, 6:30 PM

  this is a very appropriate thing for Valve to be working on considering their logo

• by Old_Paris on 1/25/21, 6:38 PM

  That looks like an awful over complicated way of performing a lobotomy.

• by Geee on 1/25/21, 7:32 PM

  Imagine getting a cookie popup every time you look at something.

• by pizza on 1/25/21, 5:09 PM

  It's pretty funny to me that the photo of Mr. Ambinder is now the best evidence I know that Valve is still working on TF2

• by Seanambers on 1/25/21, 5:00 PM

  Whoever added that background soundtrack should be shot.

• by nabla9 on 1/25/21, 4:18 PM

  It will be horrible when you suddenly can't afford to subscribe your brain extensions. It will be like severe brain damage.

  Imagine living only half-life.