from Hacker News

Ask HN: What are decentralized Twitter alternatives?

by InInteraction on 1/9/21, 2:38 AM with 226 comments

Once upon a time Jack said that Twitter initially was very open in its early stages but eventually became much more centralized, and the scale of supporting such a centralized network in the future could be unsustainable. “Blockchain points to a series of decentralized solutions for open and durable hosting, governance, and even monetization,” he added. “Much work to be done, but the fundamentals are there.” Are there any truly decentralized social communication tools/protocols to look at?

  • by ignoranceprior on 1/9/21, 2:39 AM

    Mastodon, GNU Social, and the Fediverse:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastodon_(software)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_social

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse

    The two software systems are compatible (both comply with the OStatus standard) so you can interact with content on servers that use the system.

    Diaspora also exists, but it's arguably more like Facebook:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(social_network)

  • by thebigspacefuck on 1/9/21, 5:08 PM

    Every time I go looking for one of these open alternatives it’s filled with fringe conspiracy theorists, actual racists, etc. Example is LBRY. Bryan Lunduke says he’s switching off YouTube for LBRY, so I go there to check it out. Top trending video is some white supremacist thing why I shouldn’t forget my ancestry. Search for “how to repair furnace”, second result is video how Epstein is alive. Even Lunduke is taking the opportunity to start his red-pilled politics channel. I have similar story with Mastodon.

    The fundamentals are there but the big challenge is no censorship actually makes these smaller platforms something that people don’t want to use.

  • by VoxPelli on 1/9/21, 4:09 PM

    There are two approaches:

    * The federated approach, where many Twitter like sites can interconnect and exchange messages. One current example of this is Mastodon, older examples are Status.net/Identi.ca

    * An indie approach, where everyone basically hosts their own profile and there are no Twitter like sites at all, one instead uses readers that are completely separate from ones hosted profile, just like it was in the blogosphere days. One example of this is https://indieweb.org/

    I favor the indie approach as the federated approach seems to in practice often end up with interoperability issues and mono-cultures, at least historically. + there’s still central providers, just a few more than in the case of Twitter, whereas in the indie world everyone is basically a provider themselves and one can eg. put up a static site and use that (through various Micropub tricks and such)

  • by BlueTemplar on 1/9/21, 1:23 PM

    While somewhat offtopic, an important question is why would you want one ?

    IMHO the main issue of Twitter is not even the way how it's now a walled garden (and since recently, effectively outside of the Web).

    It's how the combination of a ~~140~~ 280† character limit, personal walls, hashtags, likes and an horribly hard to navigate comment system has resulted in a medium where constructive debate is almost impossible, while feelings-driven mobs rule.

    †While moving to a 280 character limit probably made Twitter better, I'm wondering about the loss of compatibility with texts. One actually remarkable way in how Twitter was good is for post-disaster communication, which is the very situation where Internet might be down while basic cellphone communication still up.

  • by zhte415 on 1/9/21, 9:17 AM

    PMs: Email.

    Posts: Blog. [XML-RPC if you wanna email from your phone to your blog. Different post-type or tag for 'like' vs 'post' (heck, invent any 'like' 'like' you like).]

    Follow: RSS.

    It's all there and decentralised for years, just not in a polished package of a 140 character comment, and likely requires more than 15 seconds of thinking. Actually really straightforward.

    Only tricky thing would be SMS but that's... 'depreciated' as a popular feature today.

  • by Meekro on 1/9/21, 4:55 AM

    Any company that can censor will eventually be pressured by governments (or its own employees) to do so. Therefore, I see Signal as a model for how everything should operate in the future: your "account" in the company's database is just an encrypted blob that they can't read.

    Is there no way to make a Twitter-like broadcast messaging app work on top of a Signal backbone? It'd take a smarter programmer than me to figure out the details, but it's got to be possible, right?

    I mean, right now we have several well-accepted cryptocurrencies that I can use to send an uncensorable, untraceable payment anywhere in the world for about $5 in fees. It's a bit clunky, but it basically works. Why can't I post an uncensorable tweet for $5, too?

  • by systemvoltage on 1/9/21, 4:24 AM

    Part of the genius of Twitter is the name and its brand. Twitter, tweet, tweeting, tweeted, etc. Even if Twitter had no goodwill, it's an excellent name for such a service.

    None of the options presented here have that.

    "Hey dude, did you see that mastodon post?"

    "I'll add you on GNU Social"

    "Fediverse is getting popular, wanna fediverse?"

    "Nmd'ed you!"

    "Totally Aaether that!"

    "Breaking News: The Prime Minister of Australia just diaspored"

  • by wombatmobile on 1/9/21, 4:42 AM

    This likely isn't what the op had in mind, but if you're open to it, the best alternative to both reading and authoring on Twitter is to get up from your desk and exercise outside for 10 or 15 minutes. If you see other people, start a friendly, civil conversation. The skills you develop once you get the hang of doing this, and the information you'll stumble upon outclass Twitter, which is merely an interaction between human and keyboard.

  • by FinalDestiny on 1/9/21, 4:37 PM

    There is a crypto project by the imfamous Tim called SAV3 launching soon. It aims to be a decentralized, uncensorable Twitter alternative. Definitely worth a look:

    Medium: https://thetimtempleton.medium.com/what-is-sav3-d31ccb979ea1

    Testnet: https://testnet.sav3.org/

    Website: https://sav3.org/

  • by bigphishy on 1/9/21, 3:23 AM

    Secure scuttlebutt comes to mind, https://scuttlebutt.nz/

    but you specifically asked about twitter, so I would recommend mastodon

  • by pokstad on 1/9/21, 4:46 AM

    Forget Twitter alternatives. How about a social network that mirrors real world social interactions? Only adding people you actually know. Keeping conversations private. Encryption to prevent censorship. What is the social media equivalent of signal?

  • by ryanSrich on 1/9/21, 4:18 AM

    Isn’t everything effectively centralized in so far as a server host can cut your service? Or an ISP? Or even a payment processor? It seems the systems we built are too complex and rely on the judgment of too many humans. Humans that are easily influenced.

    Even something like IPFS relies on unrestricted access to the internet. I’m against most government intervention, but requiring certain services to refrain from censorship seems like the only real path to an open web.

  • by Larrikin on 1/9/21, 9:55 PM

    Are there any tools out there that will posts your content to multiple platforms simultaneously? The current fringe sites are worthless to me since currently they are mostly created and used by people who were kicked off the top sites.

    However, as an example, if there was a tool that would post my video to youtube, dailymotion, and however other many video sites are out there I'd gladly do it. You could still maintain a preferred network to help consolidate likes and subscribers, but you are less beholden to any one company if your content has existed many places for years.

    It could be difficult in mediums like twitter where there is a real two way interaction, perhaps a comment consolidator within the tool?

    If it doesn't exist I think government should atleast build the tool for themselves. There's no reason for communication from the government to exist first on a private platform. It should be put out on a .gov platform that then goes to whatever popular platforms of the day exist.

  • by prologic on 1/10/21, 12:07 AM

    This is a question I had been asking for several years until I came across Twtxt (the spec/format originally created by Felix, @buckket, read about it at https://twtxt.readthedocs.org) -- When I came across it I saw a bit more potential so I created (what is effectively) a multi-user client also called Twtxt over at https://twtxt.net (launched in Aug 2020). Since then we've also created a Mobile App (Goryon) available in the App Store (iOS) and Play Store (Android), we also offer free (at this time) hosting of pods (individual instances) at https://twt.social/ -- Today we have a dozen pods/instances and some ~300 users. My own pod (twtxt.net) sees around ~4M hits/month :O

  • by vimy on 1/9/21, 3:35 AM

    https://getaether.net is decentralized reddit.

  • by mxuribe on 1/9/21, 3:52 AM

    Oh wow, @InInteraction there are plenty of federated twitter (and facebook, and youtube, and instagram, etc.) alternatives...The key term to search for is "fediverse" (sort of a portmaneau of federated univers of social networks). The following info site might help with a brief overview: https://the-federation.info/

    There are many other sites that can provide an overview/intro. Plus, the following is a sample of alternatives:

    Blogging => Plume, Write.as/WriteFreely => Comparable to Blogger.com, Medium, Tumblr

    Image Hosting => PixelFed, MediaGoblin => Comprable to Instagram

    Microbloging => Gnu social, Mastodon, Microblog.pub, Pleroma, postActiv, pump.io, etc. => Comparable to twitter

    Pastebin => distbin => Comparable to Pastbin.com, ~GitHub

    Social networking => Diaspora, Friendica, Honk, Hubzilla => Comparable to Facebook

    Audio/Video hosting => PeerTube, funkwhale, NodeTube => Comprable to Youtube, SoundCloud, vimeo

    Events => Mobilizon => Comparable to Facebook, Meetup.com

    Forum/Link Aggregator => Lemmy => Comparable to Hacker News, Lobste.rs, Reddit

    Good luck!!!

  • by DenisM on 1/9/21, 3:47 AM

    I always wondered if one could start "tweeting" by dropping messages directly into the Bitcoin blockchain. Lots of people are very invested in it, and forking the blockchain is a lot of work and is unlikely to happen causally for the purpose of censorship.

  • by suyash on 1/9/21, 5:10 PM

    How about having one's own news/update feed on your website that people can follow/subscribe to using something like RSS ? I'm looking to build something like this and open source it, will you use ? any suggestions ?

  • by nameless_noob on 1/9/21, 3:48 AM

    There's Urbit and Twetch. First uses some of ethereum, and calling a twitter replacement is 1% of it's story. Twetch uses a bitcoin fork as a db and users have to pay to post, but get impression revenue directly

  • by StanislavPetrov on 1/9/21, 5:14 AM

    Hive is a decentralized, blockchain based alternative, though the layout resembles Reddit a bit more than Hive. There are a variety of front ends people use to connect to the Hive blockchain (and you can create your own, if you're so inclined).

    PeakD is one of the most popular and user-friendly ways to connect, and they have a bunch of links on their front page that have a lot more information:

    https://peakd.com/

    Direct link:

    https://hive.blog/

  • by kain_niak on 1/9/21, 5:40 PM

    I use a protocol on the Bitcoin Cash blockchain, through my software wallet. It also has a bunch of portal sites like memo.cash and member.cash

    These protocols were initially developed for Bitcoin but after it dropped the ball on scaling everything was ported over to Bitcoin Cash.

  • by FreeTrade on 1/9/21, 4:27 AM

    https://member.cash

    The website is a window to the platform, but anyone can host a mirror or a personal version, all it requires is a Bitcoin Cash node.

    Its fully decentralised, with self-sovereign identity and is uncensorable.

  • by rasengan on 1/9/21, 2:53 AM

    There's Nomad [1] based on the footnote [2] protocol.

    [1] https://nmd.co

    [2] https://github.com/kyokan/footnote/

  • by jonas_kgomo on 1/9/21, 4:48 AM

    i remember once peepeth[0] was trending in the ethereum ecosystem. There used to be something called tsu[1] a few years ago, that paid fiat for its users.

    [0] https://peepeth.com/welcome [1] https://www.vox.com/2014/10/21/11632070/new-social-network-t...

  • by holler on 1/9/21, 3:34 AM

    It isn't decentralized but I'm working on a new alternative and you're welcome to check it out. It's focused on low-friction, open, live discussion (messaging meets news aggregator).

    While some may not be interested because isn't decentralized, I'm a firm believer that we need more options, more competition.

    https://sqwok.im/p/QBKItu9bkEPXfA (cross posted this page)

  • by trixie_ on 1/9/21, 3:59 AM

    The web is already decentralized, you are free to setup your own new Twitter website and tell people about it. Want it to be hidden or hard to shutdown? Put it on the dark web.

    Don’t get sucked into the blockchain buzzword. Blockchain is a solution to a very specific problem / set of requirements.

    The real problem is that so many people joined a single service in the first place, but that’s up to them and has pros/cons. Federated services have a rough history - see XMPP.

  • by dredmorbius on 1/9/21, 3:59 AM

    There are federated networks which don't allow for centralised access restrictions as Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, et al, are evidencing today.

    But projects such as Mastodon put control in the hands of site or node administrators, and at least on Mastodon, there's an exceedingly healthy culture of blocking sites which themselves advocate oppressive practices.

    So those looking for an uncensored microphone may be somewhat disappointed.

    I welcome their tears.

  • by username3 on 1/9/21, 4:14 AM

    You can choose your own moderators on Aether. https://getaether.net/

  • by lgats on 1/9/21, 5:46 PM

    If you’re looking to browse twitter with less of the privacy invasive tracking mechanisms ,

    https://github.com/zedeus/nitter

    Public instances: https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances

  • by kain_niak on 1/9/21, 5:42 PM

    I use a protocol for a decentralised message board that builds on top of the Bitcoin Cash blockchain. Initially it was developed for Bitcoin but it can only work on Bitcoin if transactions under 1 cent are possible.

    The protocol is also used by various portal sides like memo.cash and member.cash

    I prefer member.cash because it has that feel of reddit.

    It's pretty cool actually, if somebody upvotes you instead of karma you get satoshis!

  • by jeffreyrogers on 1/9/21, 5:24 PM

    >...and the scale of supporting such a centralized network in the future could be unsustainable.

    I don't think this is borne out in practice. Centralization seems to be the rule for large systems since networking scales O(n^2) otherwise, so decentralization has to provide pretty compelling advantages to overcome this large disadvantage.

  • by iFire on 1/9/21, 4:52 PM

    Most of the decentralized Twitter alternative systems required AGPL to join. Are there any MIT licensed social protocols?

  • by Finnucane on 1/9/21, 3:51 AM

    How much of a hive of scum and villainy are you willing to tolerate? If you were on Twitter, I’d assume at least some.

  • by turblety on 1/9/21, 4:46 AM

    Does federated count? There is the opensource project here: https://github.com/jointwt/twtxt

    And a public instance at: http://twtxt.net/

  • by alexmingoia on 1/10/21, 12:48 AM

    Blogs and RSS/microformats. Use your own feed reader of choice, send webmentions for notifications or cross-blog comments. See https://indieweb.org

    It’s decentralized, and more importantly it’s based on web standards. It works today.

  • by endori97 on 1/9/21, 3:38 AM

  • by billylindeman on 1/9/21, 2:40 AM

    https://voice.com is blockchain based

  • by RMPR on 1/13/21, 10:16 AM

    Many people mentioned it already, but Mastodon. Shameless plug, I wrote an article[0] about my experience migrating

    0: https://rmpr.xyz/Migrating-from-Twitter-to-Mastodon/

  • by runjake on 1/9/21, 5:23 PM

    Stick with me here: your own website connected to a webring[1].

    Unfortunately, both went all but extinct when we gave up autonomy for convenience and shininess.

    1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webring

  • by edwnjos on 1/9/21, 11:40 AM

    I'm working on one, every account is based around a bitcoin wallet and the source of truth is one the client side. Will be open to testing soon!: https://chapo.app

  • by instakill on 1/9/21, 4:40 PM

    Lots of talk about federated services in this thread. Anyone have a link to a good YouTube video running through the fundamentals + any principles required to build the "hello world" version of a federated service?

  • by sumnole on 1/9/21, 3:47 AM

  • by davidhq on 1/11/21, 8:02 AM

    https://uniqpath.com p2p search and newsfeeds (soon) join the discussion ^_^

  • by pasttense01 on 1/10/21, 12:40 AM

    IRC (Internet Relay Chat):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irc

  • by exolymph on 1/9/21, 4:48 AM

    The network effects are irreplaceable, unfortunately.

  • by cydactyl on 1/9/21, 4:56 AM

    I am the admin of both a Mastodon Instance(https://zee.li), and a Peertube Instance(https://tube.zee.li), both of which are ActivityPub based federated instances.

    While individual nodes are not decentralized the federated network as a whole is. It is ultimately up to you to choose a well-federated, fast, and reliable instance that meets your criteria for information freedom and user protections. You can find an uncurated list here(https://instances.social/list) or a curated list of instances committed to "active moderation against racism, sexism and transphobia." here(https://joinmastodon.org/communities).

    My instance while valuing user protection, errs on the side of information freedom as a valuable principle to protect as a whole. Both Mastodon and Peertube include pretty effective and comprehensive moderation tools to ensure you never see what you do not want to see, but that decision is not made for you on my instances.

    The content policy below applies to both instances- Moderation will be minimal and limited to abusive or illegal content, ultimately we want to foster an inclusive environment without draconian, biased, puritan, or emotional moderation. Moderation is taken care of by server host & volunteers. NSFW content is allowed but must be blurred by default. Gore/Porn/Nudity = NSFW. Any content that abides by Illinois, New York City, New York State, and U.S. Law is allowed.

    Server Specs: i7-9700k 512GB NVMe SSD 64GB DDR4 1Gbps

    Backend Infrastructure- Hosted in NYC, Wasabi S3 storage backend, with BunnyCDN as CDN provider for both instances.

    Who we are- This instance is ran voluntarily. I have been a server administrator for going on 10 years now starting with a passion for gaming private servers and evolving into running a business that offers web/service hosting for various clients & personal projects. These instances will not disappear overnight given my track record with various volunteer services(Tor Non-Exit Relay, Free VPN for my Mumble, Mumble, Various websites for musician/artist friends, that I have and still host).

    Why we created this instance- Freedom of speech & information is paramount in a free society. While not legally obligated, centralized platforms have increasingly infringed on societal and moral obligations to appease advertisers & coddle the fragile.

    How long we plan to maintain this instance- Indefinitely

    How we will pay for this instance- Donations, Personal Funds.

    More instances are in the works and I plan on hosting more instances for the community and web at large that follow the same principles, Gitlab, Pixelfed(ActivityPub), and Funkwhale(ActivityPub) instances immediately come to mind.

  • by thepra on 1/10/21, 12:56 AM

    I would say pleroma.social, you host your own instance and it's much lighter on computer resources than Mastodon.

  • by companyhen on 1/10/21, 6:47 AM

    https://arweave.org has some options

  • by zoobab on 1/9/21, 4:05 AM

    Bitcoin has resisted censorship.

    Other decentralized services don't allow free speech.

  • by itsbits on 1/9/21, 4:28 AM

    I don't think there is any social media platform that will remain decentralised/open. Remember Twitter or for that matter Facebook in the beginning were not moderated as much as now. Entities like Governments can end up forcing that.

  • by 015UUZn8aEvW on 1/9/21, 3:52 AM

    the world wide web?

  • by joseph_ven on 1/9/21, 8:02 AM

    Yes!! do check out venturon.org a social media platform for good, where people can come together, create teams, volunteer and also ideate trend issues.

  • by joseph_ven on 1/9/21, 8:01 AM

    Yes! Do join Venturon.org, a social media platform for good, where we can together ideate, volunteer and build solutions.

  • by dboreham on 1/9/21, 5:48 PM

    To a first approximation: none.

  • by probinso on 1/9/21, 7:57 AM

    Paper and pencil has historically been very useful

  • by jariel on 1/9/21, 4:34 PM

    "the only winning move is not to play."

  • by mshenfield on 1/9/21, 4:03 AM

    There hasn't been a post with the words "twitter alternative" in 3 weeks [0]... but this probably has nothing to do with Twitter banning Donald Trump today.

    [0] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

  • by blackrock on 1/9/21, 3:39 AM

    The Blockchain

  • by 2Gkashmiri on 1/9/21, 8:40 AM

    i have a question for signal users. what happens when signal will be used by teams to organise the capitol building style attacks? or a disinformation campaign by a crony government? or racial message storms that make rounds on whatsapp (why they introduced the 5 forward limit)