from Hacker News

Repairability

by psankar on 12/28/20, 3:47 AM with 65 comments

• by fareesh on 12/28/20, 9:57 AM

  In countries like India we don't really have too many consumer protections. Apple tends to operate similar to a criminal enterprise - they sell defective products / products which become defective after barely any use.

  I bought the 2015 Macbook Pro which developed the "staingate" issue. In first world countries, I hear that Apple replaced the screens for customers for free (I'm not sure if this is true or whether it's astroturfing). There is no such system here. Both speakers in this Macbook developed tearing and are no longer audible. Other laptops - Samsung, Lenovo, etc. in my household have worked perfectly. One laptop developed an issue with the keyboard, which was replaced for $50.

  I received Airpods as a gift this year in February. One earphone stopped working within 8 months. Apple told me they weren't going to do anything about it. I must have used them about 20 times total. I also own knock-off Airpods. They work perfectly.

  I follow Louis Rossman's YouTube channel where he opens up the devices and showcases the various corners that have been cut in the manufacturing process. He also exposes the unethical behaviour of the Apple "Genius" employees who overcharge customers for simple repairs. In one case he just plugged a loose connection back in and charged the customer for 20 minutes of labour whereas Apple said it would require a screen replacement for roughly ~30% of the cost of the device.

  Repairability is becoming near impossible with these products now. At one point in time you could salvage together parts from dead devices to gather spares, but now Apple is working on technology to ensure that parts from different devices will not be compatible with each other.

  Without legislation they will continue to operate like this with impunity. If enough key markets push for something like "right to repair" there is a small possibility that something will be done about this, otherwise the way things are headed, there will essentially be no accountability for cases like this.

  I would not be surprised if there will come a point where they make devices stop working if you open them, and only they can restore the device back to a working state.

• by opengears on 12/28/20, 6:06 AM

  This is a great read about repairability, and we should also not forget that apple are the worst when it comes to repair. They essentially said “Our Manuals Could Make Repairs Safer, But You Can’t Have Them” (source here: https://www.ifixit.com/News/33977/apple-told-congress-how-re... )

• by forgotmypw17 on 12/28/20, 5:05 PM

  >But to replace the battery, you need to disassemble almost everything (Harddisk, Speakers, CPU, fans, etc.) in a macbook and use chemicals (acetone).

  >The Macbook pro will not work without a battery even if it is plugged in an electric power supply.

  >The only reason I bought the Macbook pro in 2016 was because I had to do some iOS app development.

  Yeah... I'm writing this on my trusty MacBook Air 2011, but this is why I won't touch anything Apple anymore.

  I first got a Mac Mini, and then an iPhone, and it seemed nice at the time, so I invested more in Apple...

  But the relationship has been turning more and more abusive and controlling since then. If a human abuses me, I distance myself from them and eventually let the relationship fade away. It shouldn't be any different with a corporation.

• by jjice on 12/28/20, 3:01 PM

  Repairability is a big concern for me for the majority of things I purchase and use on a daily basis. All my computers, car, clothing, furniture in the apartment. Some things are more repairable than others, like a computer is obviously based on specific parts I can purchase online where as my clothing just needs a needle and thread. Still, keeping repair in mind when possible is important to me for a few reasons:

  1. I like my items old and lasting because it makes them more personal and gives it history.

  2. There is a sense of pride when you fix something, whether that be a coffee table or a bug in software.

  3. Reduce waste.

  4. Save money.

  Repair (especially in technology and cars) has become more and more locked down and difficult, and the right to repair is one I think we need to continue to strive for.

• by fian on 12/28/20, 3:53 PM

  Just ordered a second replacement battery in under 5 years for a Dell XPS laptop due to the battery swelling. The first was replaced under warranty (and the trackpad was also replaced as it had been slightly bent).

  The laptop is now out of warranty, so I contacted Dell to see about a replacement battery. "Sorry, we don't support laptops more than 4 years old" was the response. The support person suggested I source a replacement battery on Ebay and find a local laptop repair place to do the swap.

  I deliberately chose to purchase a high spec (for the time), expensive laptop so it would have good longevity and previously I have had good support from Dell. Seriously disappointed by Dell's response this time.

  Will be giving careful consideration to repair-ability and long term support before making another laptop purchase.

• by lr on 12/28/20, 4:55 PM

  This is the choice quote:

  "Thankfully Apple is not yet making cars, otherwise, to change Engine oil, we may have to dissasemble the headlamps, engine, transmission, differential, etc."

  Of course, an Apple car would be an EV and there would be zero user-servicable parts, for sure!

  I do want to note that, my 2012 Macbook Air still runs, but the battery does indeed need to be replaced. And I fully agree: It would be very nice to be able to use the laptop with a dead battery as long as it was plugged in.

• by voiper1 on 12/28/20, 9:44 AM

  Talking about continued usage after his battery expanded was scary - they are dangerous!

  Great link to resource https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability to choose a repairable laptop.

• by nbzso on 12/28/20, 10:42 AM

  I have an iPad pro wifi from 2018 with totally dysfunctional wifi and speaker and IPS bleeding. This is my second one, the first one I exchanged for screen bleeding also. I have the last usable Mac Book Pro (2013) custom order with i7/750ssd/16gb ram and will change the battery myself soon (Apple refuses to fix laptops from 2013).

  The last Apple product that I have bought is Mac Mini 2018 - unlike other Apple products, Mac Mini is easy to open and installing the ram was a surprisingly light experience. I expect next generation of Apple products to be totally glued, without option to repair at all. I have no problems with this, because I will not buy any Apple product in the future, but Apple creates trends and other manufacturers copy quick.

  I don't see change for good in this direction unless legislative measures arise and insist repairability to be mandatory.

• by swiftcoder on 12/28/20, 7:17 AM

  Not that it's a justification, per se, but a lot of modern laptops won't boot without a battery. The power adapter often can't provide sufficient power to spin everything up at boot, and needs the battery as a buffer (this is why, if you run your macbook battery completely flat, it needs to charge for a few minutes before it can boot back up).

• by dartharva on 12/28/20, 7:17 AM

  The more I read about Apple products the more they seem to be apt as luxury goods rather than functional computing devices.

• by lmilcin on 12/28/20, 12:51 PM

  In the meantime my 7yo T440s is as good as new.

  I have flooded it twice, once a month after buying it with hot latte. Then second time two years ago when it was dropped into clean water. In the second case the water got absolutely everywhere including between individual leaves of the LCD panel.

  Thanks to how it is built, both times I was able to disassemble it myself and clean it properly to remove any water and residues.

  I have also changed internal battery which was as simple as unscrewing it and disconnecting from main board. I hacked BIOS to accept 4G M.2 card because when the laptop was certified 4G wasn't even a thing yet.

  I will be giving it away and replacing it with a newer one but only because of some outdated technology. It still runs fast, doesn't get hot, panel is perfectly readable and everything works smoothly.

• by peterburkimsher on 12/28/20, 11:04 AM

  I had an A1398 2014 MacBook Pro 15" until a few weeks ago. I also experienced the battery expanding (it was last changed in 2018 just as the AppleCare warranty expired).

  The replacement battery killed the GPU.

  The screen turned blank when waking from sleep. It survived another week, but after that, would crash whenever switching to NVIDIA graphics.

  I can't just replace the battery now - I need to change the logic board ($500). Repairs for the 820-3787 are possible through Louis Rossmann, Paul Daniels, etc - but cost a similar amount to a replacement board.

  Original batteries cannot be bought from Apple - the laptop is obsolete. I don't know which batteries to trust.

  Non-Apple devices lack MagSafe, Thunderbolt, iSync USB, and Time Machine. Newer Apple devices lack most of these too, and can't even upgrade the SSD. The latest M1 MacBooks can't even dual-boot, or use Target Disk Mode for recovery. In the end, I'm probably just going to have to learn how to use OpenBoardView, buy a better soldering iron and microscope, and go for the real full-stack, hardware as well as software.

• by frereubu on 12/28/20, 5:18 PM

  This person may have a point, but I find it hard to read past hyperbole like "Luckily, I did not purchase the touchbar version which probably is one of the worst electronic devices ever manufactured." Sure, he may not like it, but that's such a wild overstatement that I find myself disinclined to read any further.

  And seemingly unlike many others giving their anecdata in this thread - a pet peeve of mine on HN, because it's effectively meaningless noise - my 2014 MacBook Pro is still going strong after one battery replacement two years ago, and if it wasn't for the M1s I wouldn't even be thinking about upgrading.

• by thepostoffice on 12/28/20, 3:08 PM

  Design for repair isn't trivial.

  It would force compromise on every other aspect of the product.

  In the real world = more time (at every stage of the R&D and manufacturing process) + extra material costs (more tooling, more PCBA's, more screws, etc.).

  I personally think that this issue will become a very big deal over the next decade or so, but at this point the market isn't applying enough pressure for the big companies to change their GtM processes.

• by cptnapalm on 12/28/20, 3:56 PM

  The lesson I've learned is to buy used. With 1 oddball exception, I haven't had a laptop last more than 2 years. Now, I just buy used.

• by viktorcode on 12/28/20, 5:26 PM

  I wonder why the cost of MacBook Pro battery service is that high in India? It is $129 in the US; far cry from the mentioned $550.

• by sharadov on 12/28/20, 7:45 PM

  Hey - Apple is not shipping earbuds or wall chargers with the IPhone! SV companies and their virtue signaling.

• by bitwize on 12/28/20, 5:14 PM

  Inb4 the comments that Apple build quality is "second to none", that Windows and desktop Linux are literally unusable so that the author, who computers for a living, has no choice but to buy Macs and run macOS, and anyway this is just one data point which, like a single stuck pixel on a 4K display, officially does not count against Apple's flawless record.

• by auggierose on 12/28/20, 8:52 AM

  Never had a bulky battery in any Mac. Must be something about the climate ...