by GhostVII on 10/31/20, 5:18 PM
The worst part isn't even listed in the article - Tesla is remotely disabling fast charging on all salvage cars across all networks, regardless of what the actual damage is. If it was just limited to the supercharger network I would somewhat understand, it's their network and I don't think it's a huge deal to disallow salvage cars on it. But they are removing the ability to charge even at third party chargers, basically removing any ability to go on a reasonable road trip with your car, with no warning. Completely insane, especially since many salvage cars just had body damage.
This is why I don't want a car connected to the internet. The behavior of my 50k vehicle should not change unexpectedly because some guy in silicon valley pushed an update.
by ydlr on 10/31/20, 4:25 PM
How long until Tesla (or any manufacturer) remotely disables the ignition on all used cars until the new owner pays them to turn it back on.
Its only fair. After all, the new owner just bought a hunk of metal from the previous owner. They still need to purchase a license for features like starting the car.
by sheepdestroyer on 10/31/20, 3:28 PM
As I understand, The FSD package (and I guess the performance package too) is linked to the car, not your account.
It doesn't follow you from car to car.
Then, what is the justification of Telsa's " you did not pay for it" given to second hand owners as seen in this article?
This is really disingenuous and in total contradiction with Musk's "your car is an appreciating asset".
by ilamont on 10/31/20, 3:28 PM
Teslas are notoriously expensive to fix, partially because the automaker retains a tight hold on parts availability. So when a Tesla gets into a crash, insurance companies are quick to declare them a total loss because the cost of repairs approaches the value of the vehicle. At that point, Tesla stops supporting the vehicle, meaning all warranties are voided and Supercharging is disabled, even after the repaired vehicle passes a high-voltage inspection by Tesla’s own repair staff.I take it most crashed vehicles written off in this way can't really be used for parts because Tesla is sabotaging the market for used vehicles and wants to boost sales of new/replacement parts at dealerships, correct?
Also, is the warranty of a Tesla voided if an independent repair shop makes repairs with such parts?
by hezag on 10/31/20, 4:33 PM
> Sadow sees the act of salvaging so-called “total loss” Teslas as, paradoxically, part of Tesla’s corporate mission to promote sustainable energy. “We (collective white hats) have saved thousands of cars from the scrap heap and put them back on the road,” Sadow said. “That's the only green thing to do!”
I totally agree. The right to repair[1] should be the basic premise for any device you expect to last more than a couple of months.
1. https://www.eff.org/issues/right-to-repair
by mrfusion on 10/31/20, 4:51 PM
I really want a Tesla but I would say my biggest misgiving is the perceived lack of “ownership”.
I can’t really take it in for third party repairs. They seem to refer to me as part of their “fleet”. What data are they collecting? I can’t use it on Uber?
by KMnO4 on 10/31/20, 3:32 PM
Maybe Tesla should link these features to a user's account, not the vehicle. If I sell my iPhone, I'm not selling the apps that I have installed on it.
A side effect of this approach is that you could get a new Tesla and log in to activate the features you already paid for. If you crash your Model 3 and insurance buys you a new one, should you have to pay for Autopilot again?
That said, that approach may piss off people as well. Imagine paying $50k for a Tesla, and only being able to get $30k when you sell it because you paid $20k for features that won't transfer over to the new owner. Even worse if your new car isn't a Tesla: that money would be lost.
by crazygringo on 10/31/20, 3:40 PM
None of this adds up -- there must be details missing.
First, if a dealer advertises a car with a feature and the car is missing that feature, then you have recourse -- with the dealer.
Second, how does Tesla even know that a car has changed owners? What triggered Tesla disabling the feature at this time for this car?
I mean look, if you want to sell your Tesla back to an official Tesla dealer and they have an agreement with Tesla to disable software add-ons before reselling... then that's Tesla's right. But then the purchaser would never have seen any extra features enabled in the first place -- there would be nothing to complain about.
So what is actually going on here?
by MPSimmons on 10/31/20, 8:54 PM
I would be a lot more okay with them removing FSD from cars being sold if the FSD transferred to the next Tesla you bought, like a license to have the feature.
That isn't the case, though. I paid for FSD on my model 3. If I trade it in for a Model Y, I don't get to transfer my purchase, but you know that they're going to charge someone else to enable FSD on that vehicle. It's double-dipping.
by eightysixfour on 10/31/20, 3:43 PM
While I don’t believe any of this is acceptable, I understand the supercharger disable for salvage title vehicles. Tesla has no idea what damage has been done to the battery pack and how they were or were not repaired. If the car catches fire while supercharging then Tesla is the one in the news, not the company that rebuilt the car.
Battery safety and compliance testing is going to be a big industry in the next decade as a result IMO.
by jeffrallen on 10/31/20, 5:01 PM
by INTPenis on 10/31/20, 10:44 PM
Tesla is turning out to be an environmental disaster.
Normally a car is serially produced by established factories, and sometimes even re-using parts from other models. And this car will still be in use 20 years later with no restrictions on its features except wear.
While a Tesla is manufactured in a brand new factory with no previous precedence of parts or processes.
And on top of that, it's re-sale usability is apparently garbage. So we'll see a bunch of old Teslas litter nature because no one wants them.
by ncallaway on 10/31/20, 3:24 PM
If I buy a Tesla (Car A) with FSD, then sell it and buy a new Tesla (Car B, without FSD), do TSLA enable FSD on Car B?
Do they view it as a property of the account, and any Tesla for the account has FSD?
Or do they view it as a property of the specific vehicle that somehow vanishes in a transaction?
by anotherevan on 10/31/20, 8:21 PM
This seems reminiscent of the issues farmers have been having with John Deere tractors.
by giantg2 on 10/31/20, 3:33 PM
All I want is the work truck equivalent. I don't want all the features. I want it to be cheap and just have basic features. It needs to be reasonably repairable too.
by ipsin on 10/31/20, 5:26 PM
How long until "Aggressive Self-Driving Mode" is a $5,000 add-on.
by daniellarusso on 10/31/20, 3:55 PM
So, a non-transferrable user license bound to a specific hardware instance?
by wpdev_63 on 11/1/20, 12:26 PM
Honestly surprised there hasn't been more work put into designing an open source electric car. While open source doesn't necessarily mean it's secure and bug free - it does bring a sense of security that I can look at the code that's controlling this 2 tone metal death trap I am in.
The over the air updates from tesla that adjust things like the pedal heights and performance characteristics of the motor makes me want to avoid them.
by globular-toast on 10/31/20, 5:12 PM
I own a VW and while it is a top-spec model and has most of the optional hardware, there was quite a lot of stuff disabled in software. For example, cruise control was available after replacing a switch. I have enabled a "needle sweep" which was only available on Audis and a fog light turn thing which was only available on Seats (I think). I can do this stuff because I own my car. You don't own a Tesla.
by grishka on 10/31/20, 4:09 PM
So... Don't give your car internet access in the first place, don't connect it to wifi and remove the sim card, problem solved?
by Traubenfuchs on 11/1/20, 2:36 PM
Continuously making money on the same car by making every new owner of the same vehicle pay again for extra software. Genius, absolutely genius.
The private seller can only sell the car without asking for money for the software features and the new owner instead has to pay Tesla again. Brilliant!
by coding123 on 11/1/20, 3:44 AM
So I'm a little confused. If I buy a tesla, and pay the extra $8000 (or whatever it is) for self driving. If I sell my car, is Tesla refunding the $8000 to the original purchaser?
by darksaints on 10/31/20, 3:44 PM
Ugh. I'm so sick of this shit. Why can't we just own the car if we buy it? I was actually researching a model 3 recently, now I have to go scratch it off the list.
by fmsf on 10/31/20, 5:25 PM
Does anyone know if european consumer laws can play a role here? I tried to google but couldn't find anything
by spodek on 10/31/20, 3:41 PM
It's remarkable how the personality and ethics of founders (or early investor in Musk/Tesla) appear in how a company behaves, as in Zuckerberg/Facebook and Newmark/Craig's List for other examples.
by amelius on 11/1/20, 3:25 AM
Would that give access to data of the previous owner?
by Synaesthesia on 10/31/20, 4:44 PM
This is why the right to repair is important.
by m463 on 10/31/20, 5:39 PM
This article is from february.
by catchmeifyoucan on 10/31/20, 4:04 PM
Full self driving seems like an app. I think it would be okay to deactivate, but shouldn’t be included in the resale value of the car. Assume over time the capability becomes tuned to the driver, in that case it wouldn’t be the same as transferring it over.
by ponker on 10/31/20, 3:54 PM
The Tesla model is the iPhone model... you pay good money for the device, but it remains in the full control of the manufacturer. As Apple has had more time to demonstrate, this model has advantages and disadvantages. If you don’t want this business model, don’t buy a Tesla.