from Hacker News

Not a Wheelchair [video]

by priyanmuthu on 7/1/20, 2:01 PM with 144 comments

  • by codekansas on 7/1/20, 4:18 PM

    Reminds me of this passage from Cory Doctorow's book Walkaway:

    "You realize that they're exactly right," Sita said. She smiled, stopped. "You know, when the first walkaway prostheses project started, most of the people contributing had lost an arm or a leg in Belarus or Oman, and were tired of paying loan sharks for something that hurt and barely worked and could be remotely repossessed by an over-the-air kill-switch if they missed a payment. But once they got here and started living, realized how much had been left on the table by conservative companies that didn't want to get into a patent fight and didn't see any reason to add advanced functionality to something that you didn't have any choice about, they got radicalized.

    "They stopped saying 'I just want to make an arm that'll get through the day,' and started saying 'I want an arm that does everything my old arm did.' From there, it was a short step to 'I want an arm that's better than my old arm.' And from there, it was an even shorter step to 'I want an arm that's so outrageously awesome that you'll cut off your own to get one.'

  • by tsumnia on 7/1/20, 4:52 PM

    Most of the comments have criticized the price point for what you are getting; however, I would say this looks like a great quality of life tool for disabled individuals. If you are wheelchair bound, there are a number of terrains that a traditional wheelchair will not operate on. They even point this out with their rig on beach sand. There are designs that handle sandy terrain [1], but they would not work well on other surfaces.

    Without knowing much about the couple's relationship, I would say they are trying to create a design that allows for other outdoor terrains, such as a dirt road. If you imagine a traditional wheelchair design, the subtle bumps and dips on a dirt road would make it taxing for the rider or anyone assisting them. Jerry's Rig tries to mitigate those issues to offer a quality of life improvement so that wheelchair bound outdoorsy people can still be outdoorsy people.

    Like codekansas said, people can very quickly scope creep into making an all together badass arm when all the person wants is something to get them through the day.

    [1] https://www.sandriderusa.com/product/sand-rider/

  • by a-wu on 7/1/20, 3:35 PM

    I think the biggest impact of this is the price. There are other similar products out there (Bowhead and Outrider come to mind), but those are really expensive. In a world where mobility product prices are through the roof (my power wheelchair costs north of $50k), selling something like this for under $5k is quite incredible.

  • by mdasen on 7/1/20, 3:01 PM

    I think e-bike technology is going to get adapted to all sorts of new uses like this. I think there's a lot of opportunity to create great vehicles for people that will offer a good accessibility.

    https://rootedinrights.org/video/disabled-bikers/

    This video shows bikers of many different abilities using many different kinds of bikes and it shows how versatile bikes can be for different people.

    I'm kinda curious why it's a quad-wheel system rather than a tricycle. At 2:28 in the video I linked, there's someone paralyzed that uses a tricycle to go off-roading (two wheels in the front, one in back with a hub motor). I'm not saying there isn't a reason for the 4-wheeled system, I'm just wondering what if offers.

  • by freeopinion on 7/1/20, 4:19 PM

    Quibble: "Stay safe, wear a helmet", in a video full of action with no helmets.

    I like the product, though. Seems like good people trying to do a good thing.

  • by ChrisMarshallNY on 7/1/20, 6:17 PM

    It's pretty cool.

    Good medical equipment is always going to be expensive.

    Mist disabled folks won't be able to afford this, and, of the ones that can, they may not want or need them.

    That doesn't mean they shouldn't make them, but they probably won't get rich on them.

    If anyone watched the Apple keynote, one of the sessions was introduced by Meg Frost, who rides the most badass wheelchair I've seen: https://youtu.be/GEZhD3J89ZE?t=1299

  • by komuW on 7/1/20, 5:52 PM

    there's a Kenyan guy[1] who makes electric wheeelchairs out of recycle laptop batteries.

    and it has some nice off-road capabilities.

    I can't find his website but he appears to be active on instagram[2]

    1. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-africa-49528426/kenyan-inn...

    2. https://www.instagram.com/linccelltechnology/

  • by beefman on 7/1/20, 3:41 PM

  • by jlbang on 7/13/20, 2:10 AM

    Is no one going to comment about how it looks and sounds like their voices were overdubbed by professionals? It just doesn't sound natural _at all_. I know it's not actually overdubbed, but it's so smooth, the inflection is perfect... it's freaking me out.

  • by Abishek_Muthian on 7/1/20, 3:27 PM

    I highly recommend subscribing JerryRigEverything channel. The host's (zack) primary content is dismantling smartphones at same time reviewing it's features fairly.

    I had unsubscribed to every other smartphone review channel as I'm not going to change my smartphone every other day and at the same time I want to keep myself apprised of the developments in smartphone hardware; JRE serves me perfectly for that.

  • by lmilcin on 7/1/20, 4:51 PM

    Shows simple is sometimes most effective.

    While a device with bunch of features would be better, most people with disability don't need features, they need something reliable to move around that doesn't require huge fortune to keep running.

    From what I see this thing is so simple nobody will have trouble repairing it with regular tools and off the shelf parts so most people will be able ask family member to get it repaired.

  • by seanalltogether on 7/1/20, 3:06 PM

    The drivetrain and steering assembly have definitely been designed to make it cheaper to build and easier to maintain which I think is a good thing. I wonder how much more expensive and complicated it becomes to have 4WD.

  • by mrfusion on 7/1/20, 4:47 PM

    Did he say there’s no differential? Solid read axle? That could be hard to turn on non dirt surfaces?

  • by not_the_fda on 7/1/20, 9:16 PM

    I know he's trying to be cheeky by saying its "not a wheel chair" to get around FDA regulation, but that's not how it works.

    Its clearly being marketed to disabled people as a mobility device, which makes it a wheelchair, and makes it a class II medical device that must have design controls.

    He's in for a rude awakening by a visit from the FDA.

  • by Zenbit_UX on 7/1/20, 3:41 PM

    Can anyone point me in a good direction to start making something like this myself? I've dabbled with arduinos but never really large electric motors and battery packs. I think it would be a lot of fun to make myself an ebike or whatever this thing is.

  • by woriuweflksdncn on 7/1/20, 3:28 PM

    I wonder how those rear wheels handle corners. I'm a little surprised they didn't use two independent drive motors, versus a single motor and solid axle, which could be extended to implement an electronic differential.

  • by cmuguythrow on 7/1/20, 4:58 PM

    My friend has a trackchair, which is basically a wheelchair with tank tracks. Slower than these bike-style chairs but very off-road capable. The coolest one I've seen is from Ziesel - their track-style chair can go 20MPH!

    http://actiontrackchair.com/ https://www.ziesel-adventures.com/welcome/models

  • by jonah on 7/1/20, 11:36 PM

    Super rad. Anything to help people go places they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

    That being said, I'm kinda more partial to the adaptive mountain bikes like the Sport-ONs[1]. Two wheels in front, one powered wheel in back, and a more "aggressive", sporty posture for the rider. Clearly a different market and twice the price as the Rig. It seems to me that the Rig could be a lot more comfortable and competent with some changes.

    Jeremy P. McGhee[2] seems to be a reseller and booster of them.

    Here's a video of him and another guy riding them along with a friend of mine (the guy on 2 wheels).

    The Rig with it's capability for cargo, reminds me of an industrial bike like a Worksman[4].

    [1] https://adaptivemountainbikes.com/ [2] https://www.facebook.com/jer.mcgoo [3] https://youtu.be/-IIQbD0hwto [4] https://www.worksmancycles.com

  • by damenleeturks on 7/1/20, 3:15 PM

    Yay for Utah (and accessibility)! I can practically see my house in some of those shots.

  • by burlesona on 7/1/20, 3:42 PM

    There is such a proliferation of new small electric vehicles like this. Is there a comprehensive catalog or list of manufacturers anywhere?

  • by marshray on 7/1/20, 9:21 PM

    Looks really cool.

    But I have to admit, I saw "not a wheelchair" and was a little disappointed that it wasn't a strandbeest chair.

  • by jacquesm on 7/1/20, 5:28 PM

    They're going to sell very large numbers of these. In the same week that the SegWay is EOL'd this comes out. If 'It' had been this it would have been a damn sight more impressive. Great work, great people.

  • by exabrial on 7/1/20, 7:13 PM

    I'm actually shocked how _little_ that costs. The price for a nice entry-level Carbon Frame XCO Race bike is right around $4k. Most eMTB fall into that price bracket. That's a good deal

  • by paulkrush on 7/1/20, 5:37 PM

    In the past I have looked for 4 wheel e-bike fat tire builds to find very little. This rig is in the middle of a kids barbie jeep & adult snow machine and smoother & quieter than both.

  • by tobyhinloopen on 7/1/20, 5:00 PM

    I bet it scratches at a level 6 with deeper grooves at a level 7

  • by lootsauce on 7/1/20, 4:58 PM

    One trick with regular vehicles to better handle sand is to lower the tire pressure. I'm curious how well you could do on sand with bike tires using lower pressure?

  • by paulpauper on 7/1/20, 10:09 PM

    all they did was modify an ATV to have a wheelchair-like seat and bike wheels. The reason why wheelchairs look they way they do is so they can be accommodated in indoor environments and fit through doorways or on a bus or folded and stowed away. It is pretty cool though and I can see a disabled person finding this useful but I don't see it as a substitute for a wheelchair either.

  • by mrfusion on 7/1/20, 4:48 PM

    Any idea how to start building and selling this kind of stuff? It’s my dream job. But I’m not charismatic enough to make videos.

  • by hammock on 7/1/20, 3:05 PM

    They make rugged electric wheelchairs that sit on cat tracks. Would like to hear the pros/cons of this vs that?

  • by bborud on 7/1/20, 3:43 PM

    Solid rear axle? DRIFT MACHINE! :-)

  • by danial on 7/1/20, 8:25 PM

    For those of you who haven't followed the story and seen the original reveal video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3_mVryqXpU

    Shut up, I'm not crying. You're crying!

  • by voldacar on 7/1/20, 4:53 PM

    Was hoping there would be blueprints. Still really cool though

  • by dmclamb on 7/1/20, 7:54 PM

    I want this. I have MS and miss hiking so very much.

  • by danellis on 7/1/20, 6:32 PM

    Off-topic, but 3 minutes in... so beautiful.

  • by Markoff on 7/1/20, 3:35 PM

    4750USD doesn't sound extremely affordable for battery only up to 10 miles at best, so less than 5 miles one direction under ideal conditions. I dunno, I would expect at least better range from 4 wheels, simple body, suspension and electric enegine worth 4.8K. this seem like something worth max. half of the price they sell it for

    I fail to see benefit compared to ATV - I just checked some shops and you can buy brand new gasoline ATV for like 3000USD, electric ATV around 5000USD. ATV will be faster, cheaper and have better range than this

  • by theqult on 7/1/20, 5:18 PM

    Something that is not a wheelchair is the Genny. I used to work there in IT Dep. many years ago and still i think is the only real useful application of a Segway. And the best part it doesnt't look like a fucking wheelchair, when i was trying it many people stopped me and ask if they could try it. luckly for me, I'm not paraplegic so they had a ride. The only const: Is not that cheap, 20K Euro. But if don't live in a retarded country (yes US, I'm talking about you) the biggest part is on the state

    https://www.gennymobility.com/int/products.html