from Hacker News

Citroën introduces a two-seat EV that costs €2,644 and then €19.99 a month

by kevlar1818 on 2/27/20, 10:00 PM with 220 comments

  • by PopeDotNinja on 2/28/20, 5:05 AM

    A small, cheap electric car with a 70km range in a dense European city makes a lot of sense to me.

    The speed limits in much of Europe are really low. In the USA we're used to driving pretty fast on 2 way roads with wide lanes at over 80kph. That's not much of Europe.

    I've driven over 5,000km here in Scotland just this month. The speed limits in most cities are about 60kph, and usually the max is 45kph. It is completely normal here for people to share a single lane road to drive a car, ride a bike, go for a run, and walk their dogs. It's just different than. America where every street is a temple to the car gods and walking on many streets is both weird and dangerous.

    When I drove in Denmark in 2017, I would travel around the area outside and of Copenhagen where the speed limits are often 50kph max. For example, from Copenhagen, Denmark to Lyngby while avoiding highways...

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/8e5DtpUDmSQSp31h7

    ...takes about 19 minutes (at 6 a.m. Friday, 28 Feb, 2020) to go 13km. You just can't drive that fast in the built-up urban setting.

  • by cashsterling on 2/28/20, 2:34 AM

    IMO, this is much closer to the direction we should be heading.

    The typical 4-seat, 1600+ kg, to move around one or two people, at a total of ~200kg, is just stupid. Most of the energy is spent just moving the car... very inefficient.

    Also, the environmental footprint of manufacturing modern cars is horrible: metals mining and refining, fabrication, waste from manufacturing, the energy to do it all. Making Li-ion batteries is extremely energy intensive; which is one reason they are so expensive.

  • by aeyes on 2/28/20, 1:38 AM

    These speed limited vehicles which can't go with the flow in a city are a danger because people will be overtaking, cutting in and generally be annoyed by them. This is already a problem with scooters and some motorbikes.

    Cheap vehicles which are limited to 45 km/h have always existed, they were never popular in Europe. Make it 60 and it will be usable for city driving.

  • by Faaak on 2/28/20, 7:40 AM

    I'm very happy to see this type of vehicles emerge.

    I own a twizy (that can go up to 80km/h, and 100km/hour with a software modification, thus needing a licence), and it's the perfect urban vehicle. I live a bit outside the city (15km from the city centre) and it's perfect: you can park anywhere, you go the same speed than others and I even got a (silghtly legal) tow bar for a small trailer.

    If I recall correctly, the twizy is no longer produced because it's true that it had some flaws: two seats one behind the other and no real windows (you need gloves and a scarf in winter). So seeing this citroen car is a delight to me. I hope they make a 80km/hour version too.

  • by gregschlom on 2/27/20, 10:34 PM

    The fact that this doesn't require a driver's license to operate is a big deal given how difficult and expensive (around 1000 euros) it is to get a driver's license in France.

  • by jacquesm on 2/27/20, 10:42 PM

    This more like a two person Sinclair C5 with a roof than an actual car. It won't be allowed to go on the highway and you may have to ride it on bike paths in some countries next to national roads between towns, which is a real nuisance for the people on actual bicycles.

  • by Ididntdothis on 2/27/20, 10:42 PM

    I like the concept. I don’t really like that a lot of EVs are moving in the direction of bigger , heavier and more power. For cities these super small cars are the future hopefully and not 2 ton tanks.

  • by gt565k on 2/27/20, 10:35 PM

    6000 EURO starting purchase price.

    Pretty good for a daily commuter in Europe. Especially considering how narrow the streets are in Spain. Sounds like it's ripe for that market. Can't really take this sucker outside the city though, but at that price, I'd certainly consider it for a daily driver.

  • by oliwarner on 2/28/20, 5:50 PM

    This is going to be furiously popular around the EU. We have old, dense cities, very limited parking, restrictions on emissions, expensive fuel.

    This fixes all of those, for cheap. 45mph limit isn't an issue when your limits are 20-40mph.

    I don't live in a city. I live in a relatively rural county in the UK but I work from home and most of my journeys are <5 miles. Shops and school runs. This makes sense for me, and will for a lot of people doing similar journeys.

  • by Reedx on 2/27/20, 10:33 PM

    > The Ami is not classified as a motor vehicle. As such, operators do not need a license and can be as young as 14 in France and 16 in other European countries.

    Interesting. How did they get around that classification, and for something that operates on the street?

  • by Jemm on 2/28/20, 1:36 PM

    Please, please bring this to Canada.

    Nah, will never happen. People here are buying bigger and bigger cars. Is much so that even mini vans are being discontinued.

  • by zwieback on 2/27/20, 10:57 PM

    Cool idea but the orignal Ami 6 looked way cooler. I remember those from my childhood. http://www.citroenorigins.co.uk/en/cars/ami-6

  • by mariushn on 2/28/20, 8:31 AM

    This is amazing. Finally, a well-priced non-polluting urban mobility solution.

    I can't believe on HN this has only 160 upvotes in 10 hrs. HN audience seems climate-conscious. But if it's not a Tesla solution, you don't care. Sigh.

  • by agumonkey on 2/27/20, 11:09 PM

    Applaud for trying. For urban areas this seems like a no brainer. A ton of people use big cars for no reason, struggle to park..

    Maybe it will fail but kudos for putting it out there.

  • by bibinou on 2/27/20, 10:54 PM

    Range is 70 km (45 miles), according to French media.

  • by sunstone on 3/1/20, 1:51 AM

    As the world moves to "super e-bikes" (40kph, 200km range) a lot about urban transportation will be transformed. We haven't hit the inflection point yet, maybe ten years from now. Currently the market is moving so fast though, you can see the writing on the wall.

  • by tromp on 2/27/20, 10:35 PM

    > The Ami is available for purchase from €6,000 (including VAT).

    That's way cheaper than the €14.995 Estrima Biro [1] that it will be competing with here in the Netherlands.

    [1] https://biro.nl/en/model/biro-urban/

  • by frandroid on 2/28/20, 1:05 AM

    Ils auraient pu l'appeler la 2CE!

  • by 8fingerlouie on 2/28/20, 1:21 PM

    The list of advertising partners on Techcrunch is virtually endless, and the "founding partners" cannot be disabled directly, which (after 2-3 clicks) is revealed to consist of Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, DataXtrade and more...

    that link is gonna remain blue.

  • by wenc on 2/27/20, 10:37 PM

    I wonder if it will be regulated like a golf cart.

    Unlike bicycles/scooters, it's still going to take up parking spaces.

    Without licensing, I wonder if it will introduce a new class of drivers who won't know the rules of the road and introduce more unpredictability into driving.

  • by mongol on 2/27/20, 10:43 PM

    The problem I think will be how it will fit in the streets. Bicycles that are slower than regular traffic are easy to overtake. But this probably not as easy. At the same time, I would not want to share bicycle lanes with this vehicle if I am cycling.

  • by solarkraft on 2/28/20, 9:10 AM

    https://outline.com/k6padz

    I can't understand why anyone still shares TechCrunch links. It's inaccessible without accepting their cookies.

  • by noir_lord on 2/29/20, 11:44 PM

    As a motorcyclist this fills me with dread.

    There are enough bad drivers here despite our quite tough licenses - a metal box at 28mph with a battery on board will still ruin my entire day.

  • by iambateman on 2/27/20, 10:31 PM

    This looks cool!

    I wonder if it would be feasible/worth it to incorporate a pedal assist system to lengthen the range.

    Also I would love a convertible version.

    What about safety? Especially rolling? Would this work in the US from a regulatory standpoint?

  • by skelet on 2/28/20, 5:45 PM

  • by eltondegeneres on 2/27/20, 11:30 PM

    The car doesn't use its left turn signal in the demo video. Good thing the child wasn't been any slower exiting the crosswalk, or the car could have hit them.

  • by jakecopp on 2/28/20, 12:23 AM

    Does anyone know if something like this would fly in Australia, road law wise?

  • by nprateem on 2/28/20, 5:47 AM

    So something that looks like a car, that takes up the space of a car, that goes at car speeds and that can be driven on public roads by someone without a licence... expect a quick change to the law after the first few fatalities...

  • by amai on 2/28/20, 5:48 PM

    Top speed 45 km/h. That is too low for most cities.

  • by jbverschoor on 2/28/20, 2:23 PM

    Still useless if you pay €7,50 per hour for parking

  • by jbverschoor on 2/28/20, 2:22 PM

    So it’s a biro?

  • by aganame on 2/28/20, 8:36 AM

    That revolting site breaks the back button.

  • by jonas21 on 2/27/20, 10:34 PM

    > It can be rented long term at a cost of €19.99 (including VAT) per month with an initial payment of €2,644.

    Seems like a bit of a stretch to call that €19.99/mo when you also need to pay the equivalent of 11 years of rent up front.

  • by californical on 2/27/20, 10:32 PM

    Seems a little misleading that it's €19.99/mo after a €2644.00 down payment. Still cheap, but not THAT cheap.

  • by html5web on 2/27/20, 10:39 PM

    “It can be rented long term at a cost of €19.99 (including VAT) per month with an initial payment of €2,644 (including VAT). The Ami can be rented through a car-sharing service for up to a day at a rate of €0.26 per min...”

    Looks like it costs €2,644 initial payment + €19.99 a month.

  • by Keyframe on 2/27/20, 10:37 PM

    Great, but no way in this timeline you will be able to get on a road with this without a license. Even if that’s the case it will change in an instant.

  • by slg on 2/27/20, 10:36 PM

    >It’s electric, cheap and doesn’t require a license. In short, it’s less of a car and more of an electric scooter with two seats, doors and a heater...The Ami is not classified as a motor vehicle.

    This just screams safety issues to me. I'm not sure I would want to drive down some city streets in one of these.