from Hacker News

U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

by ybahubali2018 on 1/28/20, 5:12 PM with 209 comments

• by mxscho on 1/28/20, 5:38 PM

  > Perdue on Monday defended [...] the technique to disinfect poultry [...], arguing that U.S. farmers now use a chemical called peracetic acid rather than chlorine: "Peracetic acid ... is a great pathogen reduction treatment. You know what it is? It's vinegar, essentially. To say that's unsafe or not to be used, we don't think there's a basis for that in sound science."

  I always thought the EU doesn't want this procedure because it effectively allows farmers to take a short cut and cover up bad practices used earlier in the chain. Under this premise, this quote just argues against a straw man for an otherwise meaningless counterargument.

• by mariopt on 1/28/20, 6:00 PM

  I remember when I visited a supermarket in the states and noticed something very weird: Not only chicken breast was super super cheap but the color was whiteish and didn't look right to me.

  Since a young age I visited egg farms and I can tell you the conditions are far from ideal, they even turn on the lights at 3am to enhance egg production. We're talking about egg farms that are regulated by EU laws. About 12 years ago the EU regulated how many chickens were allowed in a single case (about 8 I believe).

  Even with EU regulation it is well known that the amount of antibiotics is simple too much and dangerous, we've law holes like: It is regulated in France but you can cross the border and get it in Spain as they don't control who buys it.

  If this gets approved, I demand it to be labeled.

• by mvdwoord on 1/28/20, 5:54 PM

  The Netherlands has a treaty (against the outcome of the referendum) with the Ukraine which allows for effectively undermining our animal welfare policies.

  https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2016/05/ukraine-poultry-giant-...

  If the EU allows this as well (or finds some weird amended way to do the same while proclaiming something else) what's next?

• by sharkmerry on 1/28/20, 5:56 PM

  Some stats.

  EU - ~500 Million people. "In the EU, over 91,000 salmonellosis cases are reported each year." [1]

  US. ~330 Million People. "CDC estimates Salmonella bacteria cause about 1.35 million infections, 26,500 hospitalizations, and 420 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for most of these illnesses." [2]

  1- https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella 2- https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/index.html

• by jkh1 on 1/28/20, 7:21 PM

  Chlorine treatment can make bacteria undetectable by inducing a dormant state [1] so some earlier studies on effectiveness of chemical treatments may not be valid.

  Also the US and EU have different approaches to meat production. In the EU, the principle is to prevent meat contamination in the first place throughout the food production chain whereas in the US emphasis is placed on decontamination at the end of the chain.

  Finally, some recent bacterial food poisoning outbreaks in Europe were due to vegetables so comparing numbers of infections without taking the source into consideration can be misleading.

  1- https://mbio.asm.org/content/9/2/e00540-18.full

• by AcerbicZero on 1/28/20, 5:29 PM

  This is not a new issue between the US and European nations.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

• by cwmma on 1/28/20, 5:29 PM

  I had to look it up, but Sonny Perdue (the secretary of ag) is not related to Perdue farms (large chicken manufacturer)

• by joecool1029 on 1/28/20, 5:52 PM

  So, I fail to see the issue with the chemical currently used. Chlorine had obvious negative health issues, but peracetic acid and hydrogen peroxide both decay quickly when exposed to air: http://www.foodprotection.org/files/food-protection-trends/m...

  I understand the concerns about using such processes over having a clean processing facility but I don't trust the cheap labor (prisoners, migrant farmers, etc) the US uses to not cause an outbreak. For those doubting this logic please look at the shit lettuce outbreaks we have every 2-3 months.

• by tschellenbach on 1/28/20, 5:35 PM

  What's the health impact of the chemical-washed chickens?

• by stewbrew on 1/28/20, 6:11 PM

  I personally don't get this. European supermarkets are full of cheap chicken meat. Can the US food industry actually beat that low quality meat with even cheaper and lower quality junk food and still be profitable? Please somebody call the ALF squat team. This is sick.

• by C14L on 1/28/20, 5:42 PM

  Look, the "Chlorhühnchen" are back!

  In Germany, this was the favorite scare topic of the press in articles about the TTIP negotiations.

  So I doubt that they will be able to include that in any new treaty without causing a major freak-out here in Germany.

• by threatripper on 1/28/20, 6:03 PM

  Related is the chicken tax [1] on light trucks which is one big reason why SUVs (which are classified as light trucks) are so popular in the US because US companies can make more profit selling them due to the import tariffs stifling the European competition.

  1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

• by chojeen on 1/28/20, 5:55 PM

  Do they still have to label irradiated food in the EU? IIRC many people avoid it because radiation is scary sounding. I have to imagine that chemically treated meat would be an even tougher sell, regardless of how benign it might actually be.

• by 40acres on 1/28/20, 6:37 PM

  I don't cook meat without chemically washing it either. I was raised on washing meats with vinegar and sour orange and don't compromise on it at all. Chemically washed is quite the spin considering US rates on food poisoning are probably quite low.

• by brummm on 1/28/20, 5:26 PM

  I really hope the EU will not allow this kind of US meat into the EU market...

• by uhtred on 1/28/20, 6:08 PM

  Who is still eating meat in 2020? Disgusting. No excuse whatsoever for supporting animal cruelty. Shame on you.

• by ArchReaper on 1/28/20, 5:32 PM

  Off topic: Does anyone know how they are blocking scrolling when scripts are disabled and overflow:hidden is taken off body? Infuriating

• by RcouF1uZ4gsC on 1/28/20, 6:00 PM

  > chemical-washed chicken

  Isn't all chicken "chemical-washed chicken"? Surely, they wash it in water at some point?

• by teekert on 1/28/20, 5:33 PM

  I wonder if the EU will ever say: "Hey, change your methods, we can make trade deal." Perhaps the lack of a charismatic, true leader makes it to risky and it is too easy to avoid public scrutiny. When stuff goes sour, people blame trump. Who will us EU citizens blame?

• by p1anecrazy on 1/28/20, 5:26 PM

  “ Am I saying that I'm a chicken wing expert? No. But I am telling you this, the wing is hands down the best part of the chicken.” [1]

  1 - https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-snl-sketch-2004-chicke...

• by stiray on 1/28/20, 6:09 PM

  (Read to the end, it is not what you think it is!)

  I have stopped eating meat in 1990, due to the discusting way the animals are treated and I couldn't care less. At well over 40s I still look young, no gray hair, medical results are fabolus.

  BUT!!! I would seriously ask all the vegans/vegetarians to STFU, they are annoying to the point where everyone attacks me when I tell him that I don't eat meat and try to argue. It is embarasing that, as a vegetarian (lacto/ovo whatever, who cares), I rather don't tell this to anyone, due to radical groups too stupid to understand, that their aggressive actions are beeing counterproductive. There was an old saying that fighting for peace is like f* for virginity. It just doesn't work. And I am so sorry that I think that there is no need to make every meat eater on barricades due to agrasive stand you unneededly take.

  Just let people eat whatever they want. They will figure out on their own.