by crikli on 11/5/19, 2:32 PM
I’m a climber / skier / runner etc based out of Colorado and between my wife and we’ve spent a small fortune with backcountry.com. I didn’t know about any of this. Suing a maker of backcountry skis? Well, fuck you too, private equity jerkoffs. I’m going to light up my rep on this and let them know my spend and my recommendations are going elsewhere.
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Edit3: GoFundMe for the legal costs of one of their targets:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/legal-defense-to-fight-backcountr...
Edit2: A follow-up article with more details on just how predatory and unreasonable BC (by proxy through their attorneys) have become:
https://coloradosun.com/2019/11/05/backcountry-com-trademark...
Edit, @skierjerry, et, al, here's what I just sent my rep:
Heya <person>,
I read an article about Backcountry in the Colorado Sun that really disappointed me. Your employer has adopted ugly business tactics and begun using its size to attack smaller businesses who have the ubiquitous term “backcountry” in their name.
Please look at my lifetime spend with Backcountry as well as that of my wife. It is significant. It also stops now, and I’ll be making significant contributions to the legal funds of the boutique makes and businesses that your employer is assaulting.
I wish you nothing but the best on a personal level and hope that your employer chooses to take a better path."
by codingdave on 11/5/19, 4:32 PM
We're seeing this all over. Even on small scales - my wife just had many of her listings taken down on etsy because a patent troll claimed she owned an entire genre of crafts. This isn't the place to get into details, though, because my instance isn't the problem. Even the people doing the bullying, and etsy letting them get away with it, aren't the full problem. The court system is a bigger part, because many claims have no merit, but people know that not everyone can afford to go through the legal procedures to get that answer declared by a court. We've gotten to a point that you have to have money to fight some battles. Which means sometimes bullies win because others can't afford the fight. And setting up GoFundMe accounts every time someone gets bullied isn't scalable.
We need this to be resolved at a cultural, societal, and/or legislative level.
by PietdeVries on 11/5/19, 3:10 PM
by benatkin on 11/5/19, 2:51 PM
I hope that with the proliferation of TLDs this happens often enough that people get sick of it and we start enforcing the rule that generic words like mountain and road can't be trademarked. I'd prefer nothing, including Apple, get grandfathered in. Apple can go back to being Apple Computer or apple.com, whichever they prefer. I'd like the startup community to insist that startups like remote.com keep the .com in their name. Some companies, like hotels.com / hoteles.com still get it :)
by troydavis on 11/5/19, 4:19 PM
They also quietly share/sell your personal info to third parties (along with customer info from subsidiaries CompetitiveCyclist.com, Motosport.com, and SteepandCheap.com). From
https://www.backcountry.com/sc/privacy-policy:
“We may share information about you as follows or as otherwise described in this Privacy Policy:
- With third parties for their direct marketing purposes.”
At least as described in the “privacy” policy, this can include purchase history, device, geo location, and more, though just name and address would be bad enough.
by mmaunder on 11/5/19, 3:43 PM
Backcountry is descriptive, which makes it a weak trademark. One defendant tried to claim they were in a different category. Why not claim the word is descriptive and argue to invalidate their use of the mark.
by BenFrantzDale on 11/5/19, 8:27 PM
I contacted EFF about this yesterday and got this response: “Thanks for reaching out to us at the EFF and for making us aware of this issue. I'll share this with the team that works on trademark issues, but in the event you know or speak with anyone being targeted by backcountry.com, please do have them reach out to us!“
by kevlawrence on 11/5/19, 3:07 PM
Interestingly, backcuntry.com redirects to their website. If they don’t have a trademark on that, they at least exemplify the sentiment.
by dottenad on 11/5/19, 7:14 PM
I’ve been on the receiving end of one of these. I used to run the snowboarding blog bckcntry.com and was given an ultimatum by backcountry.com, either take down the blog entirely, or advertise solely for backcountry.com and receive affiliate commissions. I chose the latter.
by mark-r on 11/5/19, 2:09 PM
My personal experience has been that a generic phrase in common use cannot be used as a trademark. There has to be something added to it to make it unique. I wonder how they obtained the trademark in the first place?
by 23B1 on 11/5/19, 4:31 PM
Guys, with the exception of safety and climbing equipment, buy all your outdoor equipment used, ideally on the local market. Reduce landfill and save money. Most of the stuff you buy is crap made in China anyway.
by irrational on 11/5/19, 2:20 PM
I wish there was a bullycompanies.com website that listed every bully company, like backcountry.com, with links to their bullying tactics. Then I could quickly check the list before making a purchase.
by jasonmp85 on 11/5/19, 7:43 PM
As a Denverite I was pleasantly surprised to see the Sun on HN. I did sort of wonder why Backcountry Delicatessen suddenly changed their name to Yampa (yuck) last year, and the article acknowledges the change states the owner was never contacted by backcountry.com. So at least they didn’t cause that monstrosity.
Still, I think I’ve ordered things from them before, but never again.
by iicc on 11/5/19, 2:23 PM
1) buy something from backcountry.com
2) be not in the US
3) realise you can't access their website for support because they use geoip to 302 their entire domain to a different website.
by pro_zac on 11/5/19, 2:13 PM
by bredren on 11/5/19, 6:11 PM
by imglorp on 11/5/19, 3:24 PM
This is insane. The term goes back to the 1700s. You can't just take over random words from the dictionary and start suing.
by alphag on 11/5/19, 3:08 PM
Kuhl.com has been doing the same thing.
Backcountry.com and Kuhl.com are going after the small guy over nonsense. Both Utah based companies too...
by mbostleman on 11/5/19, 9:23 PM
What exactly is the motivation for Backcountry.com to invest the time and money in doing this? None of the tiny companies and groups they're going after would cause confusion to customers. Nor is that the intent of the other businesses. So what's the point?
by dsleno on 11/5/19, 3:55 PM
Donated to the GoFundMe page, because as a small business owner, this kind of abuse of our copyright and patent systems really tees me off.
I could not ever spend a cent with backcountry.com now, because to me their brand means bullying and abuse.
by kstrauser on 11/5/19, 5:56 PM
That's a false dichotomy: it's both. "Business" doesn't have to mean "bullying". They're choosing to act that way, even though nothing's making them.
Also, burn that crappy trademark to the ground. If I tried to make an inflatable raft company named "River", they should laugh me out of the trademark office.
by PhasmaFelis on 11/5/19, 2:04 PM
As long as we allow businesses to bully people with no consequences, bullying will be remain a common business tactic.
Edit: I cannot imagine what people are finding offensive about this.
by hardtke on 11/5/19, 11:35 PM
I always confused backcountry.com with The Back Country, a cool shop in Truckee (
https://thebackcountry.net/). I wonder if The Back Country is old enough to predate the trademark, or they are about to get sued.
by blairanderson on 11/5/19, 4:15 PM
If you aren't sure how you can help, I would suggest returning anything you've bought there (within the 30-day return window).
Also, click on their ads.
by deedubaya on 11/5/19, 3:52 PM
I just started a chat on their website, and got an immediate canned response that "management is looking into it".
What a weak move. Screw them.
by didibus on 11/5/19, 2:16 PM
Why aren't things like this just addressed promptly and quickly by some legislative body. Its dumb to allow trademarking of common words and descriptive terms, can't we just have it legislated already?
How can consumers be confused by that word. If I'm searching google for backcountry gear, I am not searching for backcountry.com's brand. I'm searching for backcountry gear. There's no other way to say it. This is nonsense. It actually harms all other seller of that category. Allowing trademark of that word makes no sense.
Unless I'm missing something and backcountry.com literally coined the term and is responsible for its inclusion in the dictionary.
by JohnFen on 11/5/19, 4:42 PM
Bullying or business? It can be both.
To me, whether suing for trademark infringement is ethically supportable or not comes down to the purpose of trademarks: to prevent consumer confusion (consumers thinking they're buying the product of one company when they're actually buying the product of another company).
If a company is suing for trademark infringement, but there isn't any reasonable chance that consumers will be confused, then the lawsuit isn't legitimate -- it's just plain old bullying.
by kbos87 on 11/5/19, 4:25 PM
Another avid outdoorsperson here. The industry is full of good people and great brands - we don’t have to put up with this. I’m done with them, even if they apologize.
by beaker52 on 11/5/19, 7:36 PM
Worry about naming your company/product due to trademarks, worry about selling your product due to patents.
Makes me think twice and I haven't even got an idea yet!
by jfee on 11/5/19, 4:01 PM
by icedistilled on 11/6/19, 5:09 AM
One of their gearheads messaged me in one of the regular marketing emails. I told him I could not do business with them due to their lawsuits. You should email them too.
Backcountry is a place not a trade-marketable name. Owning the word 'backcountry' is strictly against the outdoor ethos.
If they wanted a company name they could trade mark then they should have selected a different name.
by ericmay on 11/5/19, 4:18 PM
I've always had good service/support from Backcountry, but today I emailed my account manager and let them know that I was disappointed in their recent actions and that it is a factor in future purchases. Hopefully if enough of us let them know we disagree with their actions, they'll change tune.
by diebir on 11/5/19, 9:43 PM
I spend so much money on Backcountry.com, I get personal emails from a "gearhead" (a rep assigned to me). I have sent him a (very polite) email asking to inform the corporate that I will be suspending my spending until this is resolved.
by chapium on 11/5/19, 2:06 PM
When you can't compete, sue.
by rolph on 11/5/19, 5:02 PM
if your brand name is so easily confused, with upstart unknown business then you have a problem with brand awareness and its your fault.
why would you want your brand to be known for lawsuits, rather than a reliable value added product?
by briandear on 11/6/19, 4:26 AM
They are suing people with registered trademarks that use the word Backcountry? How’s that supposed to work? Perhaps the trademark owners should be suing Backcountry.com!
by ljsmith93 on 11/5/19, 6:37 PM
As someone who has spent a lot of money on backcountry.com I have to say i'm really disappointed and will be directing my money elsewhere.
by newshorts on 11/5/19, 8:38 PM
I have a child and it’s this kind of stuff that makes me wonder if we shouldn’t move out of the US. I worry about the future of this county.
by poulsbohemian on 11/5/19, 4:11 PM
Years ago I tried buying some ski skins for a buddy as a gift. Somehow the box arrived without all the parts (and there isn't much to ski skins, so this was dumbfounding). Took multiple phone calls and emails with support, where they seemed at a loss of what to do (I dunno - replace the item / do a return, duh?). Think I finally got my money back and bought them at REI. Love their little goat icon, but otherwise soured me from buying from them.
by PatrolX on 11/6/19, 1:13 AM
Trademark holders are "required" to defend their registration, failure to do so will result in losing it.
by imgabe on 11/5/19, 3:12 PM
From what I understand the nature of trademark law is that if you don't defend your trademark, you lose it. It's not nice, but what are they supposed to do? Abandon their trademark?
by kpU8efre7r on 11/5/19, 8:03 PM
Checked out back countrybabes.com and was disappointed.
by kick on 11/5/19, 1:58 PM
Why not both? Bullying and business aren't exclusive, they go hand in hand.
It's a consequence of capitalism in a market that isn't free.
A free market is bad, obviously, but a lack of it has these sorts of problems. This company's abuse of the system can be stopped through legislation or government ruling, but until then it will have to be suffered through.