from Hacker News

IRS issues additional guidance on tax treatment for cryptocurrency

by sunils34 on 10/9/19, 6:15 PM with 142 comments

  • by lacker on 10/9/19, 7:35 PM

    So if you get a new coin from a hard fork, you owe taxes on the fair market value of that new coin you get. This seems pretty dangerous - if the fair market value is high on the first day of trading, but declines a lot, you could get taxed on value that you never realized.

    It seems like this will incentivize people to sell off new tokens immediately, in order to pay the taxes they incurred during the fork.

    To me it seems very unintuitive to tax a hard fork. It is like taxing a stock split. Your asset hasn't really changed, it is just now represented in a different way.

    Another weird thing about these taxes is that they assume that one of the forks is the "real asset" and the other fork is the "new asset". In practice, it seems like a lot of times a fork happens along with a lot of argument about which side of the fork is the "real" one.

    Well, I guess the IRS does not see cryptocurrency the same way as my intuition would.

  • by kauffj on 10/9/19, 7:23 PM

    In honor of the IRS fork guidance I’m announcing BBV — Bitcoin Bruce’s Vision.

    It’s a Bitcoin fork that gives me an extra 1 million coins. I’ll sell one sat to you for $300.

    Also: I’m sending a 12 word seed phrase poem to each member of Congress right before the fork.

    https://twitter.com/brucefenton/status/1181981988221329413

  • by floatingatoll on 10/9/19, 7:24 PM

    If you hold pre-fork currency, and there is a hard fork: IF you gain any of the new currency THEN it's income ELSE it's not.

    To quote the final paragraph, emphasis mine:

    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-19-24.pdf

    HOLDINGS

    (1) A taxpayer does not have gross income under § 61 as a result of a hard fork of a cryptocurrency the taxpayer owns if the taxpayer does not receive units of a new cryptocurrency.

    (2) A taxpayer has gross income, ordinary in character, under § 61 as a result of an airdrop of a new cryptocurrency following a hard fork if the taxpayer receives units of new cryptocurrency.

  • by modeless on 10/9/19, 7:00 PM

    Finally! Guidance on airdrops and forks was sorely needed.

    The guidance seems mostly in line with expectations, but I find one bit confusing. The IRS is drawing a distinction between a hard fork with an airdrop and a hard fork without an airdrop. I don't understand the concept of a hard fork without an airdrop. If the new chain doesn't at least maintain the balances of all existing accounts using the new chain's token, then IMO it's not a fork at all but simply the launch of a new cryptocurrency. Can someone give an example of the kind of hard fork with no airdrop the IRS is talking about?

  • by zjs on 10/10/19, 3:58 AM

    I think this is the first time that the IRS has explicitly stated that specific identification is a valid accounting method for virtual currency:

    Q36. I own multiple units of one kind of virtual currency, some of which were acquired at different times and have different basis amounts. If I sell, exchange, or otherwise dispose of some units of that virtual currency, can I choose which units are deemed sold, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of?

    A36. Yes. You may choose which units of virtual currency are deemed to be sold, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of if you can specifically identify which unit or units of virtual currency are involved in the transaction and substantiate your basis in those units.

    Q37. How do I identify a specific unit of virtual currency?

    A37. You may identify a specific unit of virtual currency either by documenting the specific unit’s unique digital identifier such as a private key, public key, and address, or by records showing the transaction information for all units of a specific virtual currency, such as Bitcoin, held in a single account, wallet, or address. This information must show (1) the date and time each unit was acquired, (2) your basis and the fair market value of each unit at the time it was acquired, (3) the date and time each unit was sold, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of, and (4) the fair market value of each unit when sold, exchanged, or disposed of, and the amount of money or the value of property received for each unit.

    Note, however, that they also clarify that this is not the default accounting method:

    Q38. How do I account for a sale, exchange, or other disposition of units of virtual currency if I do not specifically identify the units?

    A38. If you do not identify specific units of virtual currency, the units are deemed to have been sold, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of in chronological order beginning with the earliest unit of the virtual currency you purchased or acquired; that is, on a first in, first out (FIFO) basis.

  • by cft on 10/9/19, 7:19 PM

    I think it's the decision to treat it as property (and not its scalability) that killed the use of crypto in the US as payment mechanism, and limited its use only to store of value, speculation, and illicit payments.
  • by ocdtrekkie on 10/9/19, 9:01 PM

    So perhaps someone can help me here: When Keybase sent everyone with an account a bunch of Stellar Lumens did they gift everyone with an obligation to file more tax forms?

    EDIT: To answer my own question, this FAQ states: "No. If you receive virtual currency as a bona fide gift, you will not recognize income until you sell, exchange, or otherwise dispose of that virtual currency."

    Presumably I only have to worry about my lumens if I cash them out or pay someone with them.

  • by shiado on 10/9/19, 8:24 PM

    Without a legal definition of cryptocurrency ownership there is no way to interpret this guidance. I may assert that I own the private key which can transact on the Bitcoin blockchain but also assert that I do not own the exact same private key on the Shitcoin 1234 blockchain. A very crude and simple analogy would be like assuming people with the same bank pin are the same person.
  • by aazaa on 10/9/19, 7:34 PM

    The "airdrop" terminology is interesting to say the least.

    The closest thing I can see to a definition is in 26 CFR 1.61-1:

    > An airdrop is a means of distributing units of a cryptocurrency to the distributed ledger addresses of multiple taxpayers. A hard fork followed by an airdrop results in the distribution of units of the new cryptocurrency to addresses containing the legacy cryptocurrency. However, a hard fork is not always followed by an airdrop.

    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-19-24.pdf

    Consider the Bitcoin/Bitcoin Cash hard fork of 2017. No "distributed ledger addresses" received an airdrop distribution.

    What happened instead is that the tokens previously valid on a single network (Bitcoin) became valid on a new network (Bitcoin Cash). There was no "distribution" and as such there was no airdrop according to the IRS definition.

    On the first block of the Bitcoin Cash split, there was no "recording" of cryptocurrency receipt on the "distributed ledger." There was just a block containing some unrelated (for most users) Bitcoin Cash transactions.

    Either the IRS doesn't understand the basis of a hard fork, or it's specifically singling out hard forks coupled to "airdrops" as having received income.

    Likewise Situation 1, from the same document:

    > Situation 1: A holds 50 units of Crypto M, a cryptocurrency. On Date 1, the distributed ledger for Crypto M experiences a hard fork, resulting in the creation of Crypto N. Crypto N is not airdropped or otherwise transferred to an account owned or controlled by A.

    > ...

    > A did not receive units of the new cryptocurrency, Crypto N, from the hard fork; therefore, A does not have an accession to wealth and does not have gross income under § 61 as a result of the hard fork.

    The use of the word "account" is also problematic, as it implies a custodial relationship with a financial institution, which has nothing to do with Bitcoin itself.

    Filling in the blanks:

    A holds 50 BTC. On Date 1, BTC experiences a hard fork, resulting in the creation of Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin Cash is not airdropped or otherwise transferred to an account owned or controlled by A.

    A did not receive units of the new cryptocurrency, Bitcoin Cash, from the hard fork; therefore A does not have an accession to wealth and does not have gross income under § 61 as a result of the hard fork.

    Stay tuned because these rules are going to be refined - a lot.

  • by nsfyn55 on 10/9/19, 7:11 PM

    >A taxpayer generally realizes capital gain or loss on the sale or exchange of virtual currency that is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.

    What does this mean for crypto players that exchanged a lot of crypto, realized gains, then lost their wallet?

    Are they still on the hook for taxes on the gains even though they can't access the wallet anymore?

  • by chanfest22 on 10/9/19, 8:29 PM

    Here's a summary of the key updates in the new guidance in ELI5 terms: https://www.cointracker.io/blog/new-irs-cryptocurrency-tax-g...
  • by algaeontoast on 10/10/19, 2:55 AM

    Why does anyone in tech still pretend there’s any real value left in blockchain tech?

    The crypto industry is stymied, time to move on and let “real” fintech take the reins...

  • by jerkstate on 10/9/19, 6:50 PM

    What does this mean if I have coins on an exchange when they fork and the exchange decides not to support the new coin? Is that theft?
  • by wiidude32 on 10/10/19, 8:57 AM

    Here's a breakdown on the most important info in the new guidance: https://www.cryptotrader.tax/blog/new-irs-cryptocurrency-tax...
  • by aesthethiccs on 10/10/19, 2:30 AM

    Oh the same irs that is undefunded to persue billionaire tax avoidance but seems to be quite capable of attempting to tax all cryptocurrency use for us citizens.... yeah this seems like complete bullshit.
  • by flippinburgers on 10/10/19, 5:25 AM

    So does this retroactively apply to existing assets? BCH?
  • by revel on 10/9/19, 9:37 PM

    A huge day for digital assets. The big highlights for me are:

    * fair date accounting for when you take custody of a private-key / access to a wallet holding an asset (air dropped, hard forked or traditionally acquired).

    * specific identification is allowed for cost basis accounting! Not sure if this is new but this is a massive game changer for me.

  • by hillmorgan77 on 10/11/19, 1:17 AM

    I have been suffering from (LUPUS) disease for the last 10 years and had constant pain, especially in my knees. During the first year,I had faith in God that i would be healed someday.This disease started circulate all over my body and i have been taking treatment from my doctor, few weeks ago i came on search on the internet if i could get any information concerning the prevention of this disease, on my search i saw a testimony of someone who has been healed from (LUPUS) by this Man Dr Abiolo and she also gave the email address of this man and advise we should contact him any sickness that he would be of help, so i wrote to Dr Abiolo telling him about my (LUPUS) he told me not to worry that i was going to be cured!! hmm i never believed it,, well after all the procedures and remedy given to me by this man few weeks later i started experiencing changes all over me as the DR assured me that i have cured,after some time i went to my doctor to confirmed if i have be finally healed behold it was TRUE, So friends my advise is if you have such sickness or any other at all you can email Dr Abiolo on (abiolotemple@gmail.com) sir i am indeed grateful for the help i will forever recommend you to my friends!!! with your lovely Email Address( abiolotemple@gmail.com) or you can also call him on this number +2347012232686Dr Abiolo also cure the following(1) EX BACK(2) HIV/AIDS (3) ALS / LUPUS DISEASE CURE (4) DICK ENLARGEMENT(5) HEPATITIS B(6) ALOPECIA(7) CANCER(8) DIABETES(9) HERPES CURE(10) CURE OF ANY KIND OF DISEASES (11) IMPOTENCE,(12) BARENESS/INFERTILITY(13) DIARRHE / H PYLORI CURE(14) ASTHMA(15) HPV CURE/HSV-1(16) FIBROID CURE....contact him now email abiolotemple@gmail.com or WhatsApp +2347012232686... he is ever ready!!!
  • by rwmurrayVT on 10/9/19, 6:47 PM

    tl;dr if you take possession of any 'new' crypto holdings after a hard fork you now have new tax liability !