from Hacker News

Firefighting foam leaves toxic legacy in Californians’ drinking water

by mitchelldeacon9 on 10/8/19, 1:07 PM with 140 comments

  • by ubertoop on 10/8/19, 4:18 PM

    I grew up approximately 2.5 miles from a major rocket manufacturer. We're talking R&D and manufacturing of jet propulsion and rocket systems since the 80s.

    They totally polluted the water tables in the area with by-products of rocket fuel and other industrial chemicals used to clean engines.

    They were fined in the 90s and supposedly worked with local water authorities to setup a filtration system... but decades later, they're still finding the pollutants are actually SPREADING to adjacent water tables in communities miles from the original location.

    Even worse... many women from the community I grew up in have developed strange autoimmune disorders in their 40s and 50s. Like, a truly abnormal number of them. Many of these women are upper middle class, health conscious, non-smokers, including many athletes. Among those disorders, one of the common ones is issues with their thyroid.

    Turns out that one of the major byproducts of rocket combustion - if consumed - is known to fuck up your thyroid.

    Am I saying that I know for sure that the pollution of the water tables caused all these women to develop these strange disorders? I can't say for sure. I respect the scientific process and I certainly don't want to jump to any unfair or drastic conclusions, but it seems likely.

    As recently as 2011 the area was again hit with a $60 million fine for cleanup. A slap on the wrists for the level of ecological damage they've caused. The water basin in this area is permanently damaged, and seems (even after decades or rain fail) to still be seeping into surrounding areas.

    EDIT: For those wanting more specifics...

    Aerojet / Rocketdyne is the company. Rancho Cordova is the city.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerojet#EPA_Superfund_sites

  • by rhacker on 10/8/19, 4:11 PM

    I feel like everyone thinks Flint and Erin Brockovich were the only two water incidents in the country. If you look for water pollution news - you'll find that places near garbage dumps are coming up highly toxic, all over the country. Everyone seems to think the administration has it under control. They don't. There is benzene, hexavalent chromium and thousands of pollutants found in our water all over the country. There are literally millions of properties on well water in the country that are not checked but once every 20 years (if that). The only fix is rain catchment, before it goes into the ground. Soil remediation and stopping people from contaminating!!!! In all political parties groundwater and soil contamination is going to come to a head soon.
  • by jen_h on 10/8/19, 2:57 PM

    Filter your water if you live anywhere near an airport or military base anywhere, it's not just California.

    In Satellite Beach, Florida, the contamination from Patrick AFB was discovered after a group of Satellite Beach High alumni realized they all developed cancer around the same time and decided to start digging. [https://pfasproject.com/2018/08/08/satellite-beach-florida-f...]

    They dumped everything in a trench...not realizing there was an underground waterflow there. :/

  • by inlined on 10/8/19, 3:51 PM

    I’m grateful to those who have fought and sacrificed for our rights. I think somewhere up the chain things get wonky. With our astronomical military budgets it should be easy to earmark two things: veterans’ benefits and ecological cleanup
  • by jayess on 10/8/19, 4:26 PM

    This is a big deal here in Michigan as well, due to various other industries using PFAS-laden chemicals in industrial settings. Around here it's mostly tanneries that used these chemicals and then wantonly dumped them in municipal dumps or the companies bought land and just dumped the chemicals there. Entire communities are now being discovered to be polluted.
  • by lorenzhs on 10/8/19, 2:04 PM

    The same problem exists with PFC foam used at military and civilian airports in Germany (and probably around the world): https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/report-muenchen/bunde... (in German)
  • by philips on 10/8/19, 4:04 PM

    Can someone recommend a consumer water testing kit that covers things like this?
  • by aledalgrande on 10/8/19, 6:03 PM

    How can people in the US live with this level of poison in the water? I would think that the government would pick up on it and get it fixed. It is an essential element for life. Even before we start talking to damage to the environment.
  • by ChuckMcM on 10/8/19, 6:11 PM

    The EPA fact sheet on PFAS : https://www.epa.gov/pfas/basic-information-pfas

    Can be filtered out of your drinking water with a reverse osmosis filter. If you live in the Bay Area its a useful thing to have, and if you're concerned about your tap water you can send a sample here: https://torrentlab.com/drinking-and-storm-water-quality-test...

  • by isthispermanent on 10/8/19, 3:52 PM

    This kind of reminds of when we dump tons of salt on the roads when winter storms come around the east coast. It solves one problem but what other problems is it causing?

    It would be incredibly naive to think dumping all these chemicals on the ground wouldn't cause some type of negative externality.

  • by xioxox on 10/8/19, 5:32 PM

    It reminds me of the flame-retardant chemicals used widely in furniture in the UK: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49000966
  • by semerda on 10/9/19, 2:25 AM

    EPA Superfund sites --- ok I did not know about this until this thread... omg!

    I just recently found out the Shoreline Park in Mountain View used to be a landfill for most of bay area and SF. Today it is open to enjoy like it's some natural bird sanctuary.. yet there are pipes underground extracting methane 24x7 and I think I found a methane release valve last weekend right next to a jogging path... Can anyone confirm plz? => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq3CnXU5OtU

  • by hanniabu on 10/8/19, 3:04 PM

    Sad that we live by the contaminate now and see what happens later montra
  • by hanniabu on 10/8/19, 1:56 PM

    I was always told that this foam wasn't toxic
  • by ralphosphorous on 10/8/19, 6:01 PM

    NE Michigan is suffering from the pollution of PFAS as well. Been aware of it for about 9 years now but really only in the past year, maybe two, has the cleanup and awareness gained traction. It's still used in firefighting foam and any area near an Air Force or Army base likely has high risk of exposure to it.
  • by JoblessWonder on 10/8/19, 6:11 PM

    Well, I wasn't expecting to see the airport I'm sitting at in the news today...

    Slightly related, but there is a big issue with new aircraft hangar fire suppression systems because of the regulation of foam now. Regulators don't want anyone to use foam but there isn't a better solution out there yet.

  • by jug on 10/8/19, 7:55 PM

    This happened here in Sweden too. Same chemical, same problem. A huge scandal especially among concerned parents where children had grown up with it. In our case it happened due to its use on a nearby Air Force base.
  • by jcrawfordor on 10/8/19, 5:28 PM

    Contamination concerns surrounding Air Force and other military sites span far beyond PFAS as well. Disused military sites fall under the purview of the Defense Environmental Recovery Program/Formerly Used Defense Sites (DERP FUDS, what an acronym) administered by the Corps of Engineers, which has a long list of sites (hundreds per state generally) and is not very transparent about the disposition of these sites, with the records usually being shipped to the district ACE headquarters from which they can be difficult to retrieve. The sheer number of sites is also a challenge to effective public oversight.

    Active sites generally fall under the purview of an environmental permitting program, so there are dual problems that the level of rigor to which the operation is held varies by the permitting authority (state environment department or EPA depending) and that the military branches in general and it seems Air Force in particular have drug their feet and, in general, gotten away with the least effort possible to satisfy their permit obligations (which are virtually always negotiable with the permitting authority, a negotiating process in which the Air Force holds a large portion of the power).

    Other common groundwater contamination concerns around Air Force installations include jet fuel (often leaked from underground tanks and piping and may have gone undetected for decades) and residues of high explosives resulting from munitions testing and disposal. Smaller groundwater plumes may result from photographic processing chemicals and solvents used in cleaning aircraft parts. Generally all of these will be grouped into one or more "operable units" or OUs for administrative purposes and a series of reports issued as the contamination is characterized and a remediation program is designed and implemented. Depending on the regulating agency, these reports may be more or less difficult to find. For DERP FUDS it usually requires a FOIA to the correct USACE HQ wih a lot of followup as they frankly don't seem to have their records in order internally and take a while to find them - the FOIA officers are generally helpful but will keep coming back to you needing more info/clarification as they try to track down the right OU and reports. Fortunately I have never had them ask for a fee, even when their "secure file transfer" solution was broken for months and they had to mail me burned CDs.

    Permitting processes and the DERP program both require public information meetings and a (modest) public outreach program. If you live near a military site, pay attention to notices in the newspapers and posted around the community for these meetings, and contact the public information office of the relevant military branch to inquire. The public meetings often include a surprising amount of technical detail on the concern and remediation plans, and because they are also attended by permitting officials represent an opportunity to put some city council meeting-style public pressure on the process.

  • by neonate on 10/8/19, 11:29 PM

  • by Apocryphon on 10/8/19, 6:13 PM

    So does this mean San Franciscans should avoid drinking tap water?
  • by mschuster91 on 10/8/19, 1:45 PM

    > The Air Force delivered free five-gallon jugs of water to the Mendez home for more than two years. In 2018, it paid to have the house connected to the municipal water system. Ruben Mendez said he now pays $100 a month for water he used to get for free.

    Sorry, what? 100$ a month for residential water? Either this guy is running a farm operation or something is seriously broken.