from Hacker News

A brief history of government efforts to stop people from wearing masks

by wei_jok on 10/4/19, 10:59 AM with 134 comments

by jpambrun on 10/4/19, 3:17 PM
Montreal did the same thing during student protests in 2012 [1]. It came along with another special law enacted to restrict protests[2]. Both were later contested and dropped.
In my opinion that was extremely unproductive. It galvanized protests even further and the most common chant became "la loi special on s'en calisse" (roughly "we don't give a shit about your special law") as we were defying it. In essence, it just eroded police and state authority for an entire generation. I still strongly feel that I don't have to follow laws that I find immoral or unethical. I am not sure this is good.
[1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A8glement_P-6
[2] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_78_(Qu%C3%A9bec)
by rjzzleep on 10/4/19, 11:56 AM
A bunch of European countries have this. Some for several decades. Germany has had it for 3 and while the law states that its punishment is up to one year of prison, states seem to have in general reduced the sentence to 500-1500 Euros. [1]
Not really arguing pro or against, but I do find there to be a bit of hypocrisy in the media coverage.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law
by sebastianconcpt on 10/4/19, 12:26 PM
At its core, face mask bans pose a question about power: who gets to wield it, and who gets to place limits on it. The masked person can look but not be seen—an enormous and liberating power particularly in today’s age of surveillance. For the state and those in authority, the mask represents a threat because their power is in part drawn from knowing exactly who you are.
For many in Hong Kong, the face mask ban is a reminder of the asymmetrical balance of power that they are protesting so hard against. While citizens are now prohibited from wearing masks in public assemblies, police officers will continue to be able to conceal their identities
by Merrill on 10/4/19, 12:21 PM
I don't recall the use of masks being prevalent during either the anti-Vietnam War demonstrations or the Civil Rights demonstrations of the '50s and '60s.
The adoption of masks is probably driven by the digital imaging chip and the ubiquity of digital photos and videos. If the police don't image you, your friends and the media probably will.
by pionerkotik on 10/4/19, 12:17 PM
Estonia has had a mask ban since around 2008 I think, after the Bronze Night riots. [1]
This does produce ridiculous results occasionally. My friend was briefly detained by the police for wearing a ski mask on a long winter walk. It was -25°C outside.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Night
by kawsper on 10/4/19, 11:57 AM
In Denmark police will video record demonstrators face really close by, some suspect they use it for feeding facedetection from Palantir.
Disguising your face is also illegal in Denmark.
by jkaptur on 10/4/19, 1:50 PM
Keep in mind that facial recognition is probably only one part of a modern identification pipeline. There's every reason to think that some sort of gait signature, history of clothing purchases, and cellular data could be combined to identify a person with some level of confidence, to say nothing of simply blanketing a city with enough cameras to "rewind" back to when the person didn't have the mask on.
by the-dude on 10/4/19, 11:48 AM
The Netherlands has introduced a ban on face-covering masks this year, but the ban is restricted to public places like public transport, schools and governmental institutions.
Although the current interest is probably related to HK, the ban in The Netherlands seems to be related to the introduction of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa in the public domain.
by Miner49er on 10/4/19, 12:21 PM
There's been a lot of talk in the U.S. of anti-mask legislation because of antifascists. A federal bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/6054...
There's also been a lot of talk at local levels.
by josh_fyi on 10/4/19, 11:48 AM
The article makes good pro-mask points. But--as is not mentioned in the article--some such laws have been passed to stop violence from groups like the Ku Klux Klan.
by imtringued on 10/4/19, 1:18 PM
Governments want to secure their ability to remove your eyeballs with the help of 40mm grenade launchers that shoot "non lethal" rubber projectiles.
by hprotagonist on 10/4/19, 2:28 PM
one of my favorite historical antecedents is a document from the 12th century in london in which local businessmen and authorities are complaining about the hooded apprentices who get off work, get drunk, and start trouble in the streets.
Some things are truly eternal.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1584317/Hoodies-were...
by emptybits on 10/4/19, 12:02 PM
From the article: "Does heavy make-up count as a mask?"
Near-future: "Does a full-facial e-ink tattoo, dynamically reconfigurable, count as a mask?"
by greggman2 on 10/4/19, 5:23 PM
Wow, I can't imagine that going over here in Japan. Nearly the entire population wears masks when sick or when trying to avoid getting sick. They're sold in every convenience store, all different kinds, paper, cloth, foam, with or without various medicinal stuff added.
They are also a problem for anyone who has an iPhone with FaceID
by immmmmm on 10/4/19, 1:01 PM
If your goal is to evade biometric recognition by your local oppressive government: try makeup:) I work in the field and can tell you that 1) it’s cheap and easy 2) no presents sensor technology can detect it 3) detection algorithms will be spoofed and confused 99% of the time if well done. And it’s not a mask ;)
by jessriedel on 10/4/19, 5:42 PM
Noticeably absent from this discussion: Anti-mask laws as a method to combat terrorism from the Ku Klux Klan. Presumably no one is talking about it because it complicates the simple protestors-good/government-bad story.
> Many anti-mask laws date back to the mid-20th century when states and municipalities, passed them to stop the violent activities of the Ku Klux Klan, whose members typically wore hoods of white linen to conceal their identities....
> A three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit upheld a New York law on the ground that wearing a Ku Klux Klan mask did not convey a protected message beyond that conveyed by wearing a hood and robe.[2] Other courts have struck down anti-mask laws. For example, Tennessee and Florida state laws have been invalidated on the grounds that they were unconstitutionally broad.[10] An ordinance in Goshen, Indiana, was struck down based on First Amendment doctrine that specifically protects anonymous speech and anonymous association, especially for unpopular groups like the KKK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law
> In 1845 New York made it illegal to appear “disguised and armed.” Most anti-mask laws [in the US] were passed, however, in response to the Ku Klux Klan, whose members used masks to hide their identities as they terrorized their victims.
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1169/anti-mask-...
> In the United States, anti-mask laws were first passed in the 19th century to combat various threats of violence—among them, the killing of Hudson Valley landlords by tenant farmers who dressed up as American Indians, and also the growing violence of the Ku Klux Klan.
http://jtl.columbia.edu/the-inexorable-anti-mask-movement/
Here's a serious analysis of how one might tailor an anti-mask law while avoiding the most serious free-speech issues, at least in the narrow sense of passing constitutional muster in the US.
https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=30...
by mandelbrotwurst on 10/4/19, 3:08 PM
One bit of this that I've always found interesting is that it makes it just a little bit harder to suppress dissent in cities in colder climates.
Of course, cold tends to have a literal "chilling effect" on activity as well (see: crime rates in summer)!
by theboulevardier on 10/4/19, 12:52 PM
The UK police have been able to do this for a while. I haven't been involved in activism for years now, but if I remember correctly they used to be able to make people remove face masks within a particular area during demonstrations.
by C1sc0cat on 10/4/19, 2:28 PM
A bit lacking, Bans on masks started in renaissance Europe , with people only being allowed to wear them during carnival.
by pseingatl on 10/4/19, 3:57 PM
The Republic of Venice restricted the use of masks in the 18th century. Nothing new here.
by yoyoyooma on 10/4/19, 4:01 PM
Just wear a burqa instead, they wouldn't dare complaining about it...