from Hacker News

Facebook Dating

by timdavila on 9/5/19, 2:28 PM with 439 comments

• by estsauver on 9/5/19, 2:44 PM

  I think this might be a (relatively) rare strategy error for Facebook. If the success of Snapchat, LinkedIn, and also the separate WhatsApp/Instagram properties proves anything, it's that there are very different faces of ourselves that we show to the professional world, to our friends, to partners, and to the world at large.

  If I was facebook, I would very explicitly announce this as a spin out project, under a different name and brand. While HN has a good knowledge of the ultimate parent owners of apps, I meet a lot of people who protest facebook by moving to Instagram/WhatsApp. Even announcing this through the instagram brand would have made more sense to me.

• by kinkrtyavimoodh on 9/5/19, 6:59 PM

  I think HN should in particular not feel informed enough to comment on strategic benefit of product decisions like these, because the general HN opinion of FB which is at such odds at FB's place in society is enough to conclude that HN doesn't really understand FB.

  HN is a SV or SV-adjacent bubble that takes pride in not having social media profiles and doesn't hesitate in boasting about it in every frigging thread, multiple times a day. In contrast, (b)millions around the world find value in social media every single day and use it for all kinds of applications.

  I am confident FB understands this much better than people like us here who can't think of any good use cases of social media without presenting 10 riders to assure the crowd that we hate FB.

• by donatj on 9/5/19, 2:43 PM

  This seems like something they should have added ten plus years ago, when their demo was primarily college kids.

  I know many people who were clamoring for it at the time. It would have been an obvious addition as dating and relationships were a large part of the reason a lot of people used Facebook. I half suspect this is an attempt to pull college kids back into Facebook.

  I think they missed their chance with this by a long shot.

• by nasalgoat on 9/5/19, 3:45 PM

  This has been live in Canada for some time in a "beta" incarnation, and from a purely product standpoint it is terrible.

  The UI is just bad. You cannot browse profiles, you must say "yes" or "no" and the decision is final. If you scroll down to read a profile more, when you pass, it leaves you in the same scroll spot in the next profile. This is User Interface 101 level stuff. The list of problems goes on from there.

  Everything about it says "throwaway add-on" that they haven't spent any real time on optimizing.

  When originally announced, Match stock dropped 25% on the news, only to bounce back. I don't see this product really making a big dent in the Match bottom line.

• by TallGuyShort on 9/5/19, 2:45 PM

  "Secret Crush Lists"

  Yeah that doesn't sound like something that'll end up on Pastebin.

• by carlosdp on 9/5/19, 3:05 PM

  So, I'd use this, as someone who has trouble getting matches on dating apps usually. Facebook already has the largest issue for dating apps solved: the network chicken-and-egg problem. Dating apps are non-exclusive, I have 3 installed on my phone and using an additional one isn't a big deal.

  If they are able to provide a differentiated feature set from other apps because they can better leverage FB interest data, I don't see why this couldn't work.

  Is anyone else on this thread even in the dating scene right now? I really don't see how this is a plainly bad idea.

• by peterkelly on 9/5/19, 5:39 PM

  "If your crush isn’t on Dating, doesn’t create a Secret Crush list, or doesn’t put you on their list — then no one will know that you’ve entered their name."

  I'm looking forward to watching the shitstorm when that info gets leaked or an exploit is found that allows you to see whose lists you're on.

• by francisofascii on 9/5/19, 3:12 PM

  Reminds me of this dialog from the Social Network movie:

  Relationship Status, Interested In. This is what drives life at college. Are you having sex or aren’t you. It’s why people take certain classes, and sit where they sit, and do what they do, and at its, um, center, you know, that’s what the Facebook is gonna be about. People are gonna log on because after all the cake and watermelon there’s a chance they’re actually gonna, (get laid), meet a girl. Yes.

• by JacKTrocinskI on 9/5/19, 2:44 PM

  Date your friends! :D On a more serious note though, why not? If their mission is to help connect people and this helps connect people that otherwise had trouble dating and this does so in a meaningful way then sounds good to me. Privacy is always a concern no matter what the app/site/technology.

• by mabermoske on 9/5/19, 3:49 PM

  If I look at who I know that is still using fb it is almost exclusively older people. I'm 33 and deleted my fb account, almost every person I know younger than me either did the same or was never on in the first place.

  I see this being huge for older adults who are divorced or widowed, those are the people still using fb and I think would be happy to use this service.

• by ken on 9/5/19, 3:42 PM

  "a Dating profile (separate from your main profile)" "Secret Crush lists" "All of your Dating activity will stay in Facebook Dating" "Feel safe by sharing details"

  I don't know how anyone who's read a news article about Facebook in the past year (or browsed the web and glanced at the ads they get) can believe any of this.

• by d--b on 9/5/19, 4:42 PM

  This may feel weird to us, HN people. But perhaps it’s the good move for Facebook because a lot of people use it differently than we do.

  There are a lot of people using Facebook as a serious communication platform (think your mum and dad, or your friends from high school). These guys aren’t hiding who they are much on facebook.

  They’ll probably get way better matches on Facebook than on traditional dating sites.

  This is not a competitor to Tinder, I see this as a serious dating site for shyer or older people.

• by spyckie2 on 9/5/19, 3:49 PM

  Whereas tinder, instagram, and others value add is from their content, the value of Facebook (the platform) has always been the network.

  Facebook as a company has always been chasing after content. This is because content has a direct and clear monetization strategy whereas helping people make use of their network is difficult to make money from. Well, it shows - $40bn in revenue, 80% of it in ads.

  Helping people to use their network effectively is basically charity work to Facebook. How are you going to at-scale monetize that out? The answer: you don't.

  But with some irony, after chasing content for over a decade, I think Facebook is now in a position to do some charity work. Similar to Google, who saturated their ad team's return on value and has it's employees working on moonshots all day, Facebook can now afford to sit on their content engines and attack problem spaces that are harder to monetize and solve but provide more meaningful value.

  Long story short, I think it's the right time for Facebook's hayday to sneak up on us because it can quietly focus on adding real value via our networks without chasing after money from them.

  I really like the idea of Facebook Dating, because 1) it already has the network and doesn't need to build it, and 2) it doesn't need to make money.

  Most dating apps suffer under the pressure to make money and grow. For a dating app to grow it has to focus on building cohesive user bases that find value in each other and eventually creates its own ecosystems that damages the experience for others (i.e. hookup culture). While Facebook Dating might still have some of that, I could see it ending up as a more serious dating platform because it doesn't need to focus on user growth.

  How would you monetize Marketplace? Facebook Dating? The answer is: you don't care that much, throw some ads on it and let it cover costs. 7-8 years ago when people were searching for Facebook's killer money printing machine, these projects would have a lot of pressure to make a lot of money. Nowadays, sheltered by the content engine that Facebook has amassed, these projects can focus on providing immediate and strong value through Facebook's core benefit (it's network) and hold off on how to make money for a couple of years.

  Sounds familiar? It sounds a lot like Gmail.

• by AlphaWeaver on 9/5/19, 2:47 PM

  >The consolidation of social activities (such as the process of dating, dating apps, and the network effects that result) into these walled gardens makes being a conscientious objector of social media more challenging each time they announce a feature like this. I and others don't want to use Facebook. Please don't leave us with no choice.

  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19790889

• by yalogin on 9/5/19, 2:40 PM

  I don’t get their strategy. Why are they patching on to Facebook like this? Would this dating feature not be better strategically in Instagram? Facebook is rotten in the minds of users but IG is not yet.

• by nikolay on 9/5/19, 4:36 PM

  All dating apps target millennials... because they are developed by millennials. When will SV get for once that they don't get their demographic as they have nothing in common with people 40+. For example, except Microsoft, no other SV company gets families. I was surprised by the idiotic family support Google offers in their ecosystem and especially Google One. Same with Spotify, Netflix, etc. Facebook with their "family" support of children less than 13 is totally idiotic as well (scrapbooks or whatever they call it) - and so is their "dating" app! They just don't innovate these days - they just copy competitors in sick hopes to make people come back.

• by madrox on 9/5/19, 3:11 PM

  Seeing something like this come out of Facebook makes me glad to be married. Is it a good idea for them? Yes. Will people use it? Probably. Is it a little creepy to imagine a company that’s already under constant scrutiny about how it handles your data to also know more about your dating life? Absolutely.

  That said, Facebook is already out with 20-somethings. Is this really going to used by that audience? Or is this replacing Yahoo Personals for 40-somethings?

• by strikelaserclaw on 9/5/19, 2:44 PM

  Finally, all the tracking they've done on their users over many years could yield the best matching algorithm :|

• by akerro on 9/5/19, 3:32 PM

  > It takes the work out of creating a dating profile and gives you a more authentic look at who someone is.

  It feels like most people post too many fake pictures, news and crap on their profiles and this isn't going to be a good idea. "Look guys, I'm happy on Virgin Islands, like this!" (also on Prozac)

• by deftnerd on 9/5/19, 8:54 PM

  With Facebook's embracing of machine learning and their very deep dataset of personal information about users, this could be quite an amazing user experience and quite a terrifying prospect for privacy.

  Facebook has a wealth of information on social relationship interactions and also on personal interests. Adding in information on romantic relationship interactions will allow them to (eventually, when the ML models are well-trained) provide amazing matches for users. The downside is that they'll now have a deep understanding of yet another aspect of your persona.

  What are the dangers? How can they monetize this new relationship knowledge?

  * Life insurance companies might want to know if someone is prone to date adrenaline junkies and be easily coerced into participating. * Insurance might want to know if someone "hooks up" frequently, which could indicate that the person is at risk of medical problems OR has issues with impulse control. * Dating profiles often match people by self-reported social activities like doing drugs, drinking, etc. That might be of interest to lots of companies. * Relationship going well? Expect to see a lot of ads related to co-habitation (joint checking accounts, moving services, etc) * If the dating service has a "feedback" component to allow people who go on dates to give information on aspects of the other persons personality, facebook might get information about a person that they don't even realize themselves and thus don't self-report. Such as the other person dresses badly, smells funny, needs dental work, tips well, etc. * If facebook determines that you tend to fall for a certain types of physical traits, ads featuring models with those traits will become a thing. * People don't give facebook every bit of information about themselves, but they do give it to dating services.

  Think of all those questionnaires that ask about your opinions on abortion, if you want to have kids, if dating someone with different political beliefs is a hard pass, etc. Dating services use it to match people up who might be compatible, but Facebook will use it help advertisers get even more granular controls over their targeted users.

  Even worse, if Facebook wants a certain political party to win, they could match up people who are firmly established in the political party they choose with people who are on the fence in order to let the dominant personality win.

• by sureste on 9/5/19, 4:30 PM

  Off-topic, but the number of times people misspell Colombia as Columbia is very high and I'm (more) disappointed in FB for letting it pass.

• by rblion on 9/5/19, 8:34 PM

  I wonder how this fares for Tinder and Bumble. People already use Instagram to 'source' potential mates. Now they can delete one more app off their phone, remember one fewer login.

  Nobody I know uses Snapchat anymore because of Instagram stories.

• by booleandilemma on 9/5/19, 3:00 PM

  I’m still waiting for LinkedIn dating.

• by dannykwells on 9/5/19, 2:35 PM

  What could possibly go wrong??

• by mancerayder on 9/6/19, 1:18 AM

  Yup, great idea! Cue the 'calling out' posts, the bitter posts when it does not work out, the wackos of all ages, and a new culture of publicly describing your personal life in a new reality TV-like, shameless manner.

  Some years back a nephew (who was about 18 then), had a public back and forth with his girlfriend while their many friends Liked each post like two teams.

  Let's bring the hyperreality to dating. I won't participate but I'll surely be watching the results.

• by gormo2 on 9/5/19, 8:23 PM

  Online dating seems to be a perennial problem, like a note-taking or "todo app" that attracts many different approaches from startups, but whose end result never quite scratches the itch (for me, at least).

  a bit offtopic, but have any HN users successfully used dating websites in the past 2-3 years to find long-term partners or spouses? If so, which did you use and do you feel the site/app helped facilitate that process, or was it more of luck that it worked out?

• by b_tterc_p on 9/5/19, 4:22 PM

  It sounds to me like a primary use case of this would be... cheating...

  Unlike other dating platforms, this one is integrated with your supposedly up to date profile. Being able to set up a low risk secret crush with a known friend seems likely to be popular to those interested in doing so.

  That is to say, a person who wants to cheat has no problem having a Facebook profile, so there’s not a need for anonymity against being found by known acquaintances like you might expect on other platforms.

• by bengotow on 9/5/19, 2:55 PM

  Man what a shame, if they weren't a decade late (both in terms of competition and in terms of folks having trust in Facebook), this could have been cool.

• by hmmmhmmmhmmm on 9/5/19, 4:06 PM

  Facebook has 10+ years of data about people and their friendships and relationships unfolding through time (tagged pictures, relationship status, updates, likes, etc.). It's hard to tell if they've built and deployed such a model for proposing matches, but this could be their killer feature. Superficially, this product seems no different from existing data apps.

• by mberning on 9/5/19, 2:45 PM

  They did it with marketplace and took a very significant bite out of places like craigslist. I’m sure they can do the same for dating.

• by john-radio on 9/5/19, 6:55 PM

  Does this service exist only as an app at this time? I have long ago decided that Facebook is not trustworthy enough for it to be allowed to have an app installed on my smartphone. Which I guess should remind me that it is not trustworthy enough to run a dating service that I should take part in.

• by timdavila on 9/5/19, 2:30 PM

  And it looks like they're already anticipating your privacy questions: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/privacy-matters-dating/

• by arrosenberg on 9/5/19, 9:44 PM

  Hard pass. The last thing we need is Steve Bannon targeting ads at people based on who they've dated.

• by Diti on 9/5/19, 2:54 PM

  Dating platforms are incentivized to keep the client (whether they are a paying customer, or an individual giving them passive income through advertising) from leaving the platform. What do you think is in Facebook’s interest? You leaving the platform to live a satisfying love life?

• by peterwwillis on 9/5/19, 2:44 PM

  It doesn't seem to do anything that a normal "Dating" app does. It's just a private friends list. You can already like and message people you have a crush on, without this. Who is this for?

  "Secret Crush lets you match with people you already know on Facebook and/or Instagram."

  Because what people have been clamoring for is to know which of their friends like them more than is mutual, so they can feel weird.

  "You can choose to see other people who are using Facebook Dating that fit your preferences within the groups you are part of and the events you have attended or will be attending."

  'Oh look, this person at this upcoming event is looking for a date! I'll go hit on them in person without messaging them.'

• by unethical_ban on 9/5/19, 2:52 PM

  I am shocked by the ignorance here. "Why would Facebook do this? Nobody trusts them, they've run out of ideas, etc."

  They're the largest social network in the world, and this site is a filter bubble of privacy advocates and relatively anti-social people. Do you truly believe there isn't a market on Facebook for dating? Do you really think Facebook brand is universally tarnished in some way that this isn't a good move for a company with such power and money on hand?

  Come on.

  I'm angry at myself for not predicting this. Although back in the day, it was allowable to search for people by a lot more filters, such as town, interest, school, etc. to find people. Now it's doing it for you.

• by zwischenzug on 9/5/19, 7:37 PM

  The Secret Crush thing is going to spread like a hideous virus, and be cited in many divorce papers...

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg

• by dysoco on 9/6/19, 5:19 AM

  On a tangential note; there still seems to be a lot of improvements to be done in the area of dating apps.

  I still can't believe that in the era of Machine Learning, Big Data, etc. Tinder insists on presenting me with people with certain characteristics that I almost always pass up on.

  Companies know with scarily accuracy which things I want to buy but can't present me with someone I'd like to meet and which will potentially want to meet me as well? (Or maybe there's no such person, heh).

  Or maybe this is just so that I spend all my "Passes" and I buy Tinder Gold or whatever their premium service is called...

• by Kalium on 9/5/19, 3:43 PM

  What I find most interesting about this is that a dating application finally gets away from the core business model conflict. Facebook doesn't need users to stay on the Dating application to be profitable.

• by crocbuzz on 9/5/19, 4:48 PM

  The one thing they failed to mention in this press release was pricing. All the competing dating apps are so expensive. If this is free, that's a game changer!

• by tracker1 on 9/6/19, 12:33 AM

  Goodbye Match, Inc. - And frankly, Facebook is probably a better option, for as bad as they are regarding privacy issues.

• by bambax on 9/5/19, 4:40 PM

  > Facebook Dating makes it easier to find love through what you like

  I don't like Facebook... No dating for me!

  Seriously, Facebook seems to be a tool for self-advertising (look at my wonderful holiday photos), while dating is more personal/intimate/truthful (in theory at least). How long can a relationship last that's not based on truth?

• by defnmacro on 9/5/19, 3:14 PM

  If I was an exec at Tinder what do you do here? There's nothing exactly that differentiates FB Dating from Tinder and I can't think of an USP differentiating the two, except that FB Dating may be more convenient.

  Kind of an interesting precedent though that FB decided to build this in-house rather than buy Tinder as well.

• by zelon88 on 9/6/19, 4:16 AM

  This could fill in nicely the void left in the dating scene by Craigslist's rule changes not too long ago.

• by decebalus1 on 9/5/19, 3:14 PM

  Heh.. This may actually work and I'm surprised it wasn't implemented sooner.

  Back in the mid 2000's, I was on Hi5. So were a lot of people where I lived. Although a social network, everyone I knew was using it solely for dating. I got dozens of good dates from Hi5. It was pretty awesome.

• by js2 on 9/5/19, 3:11 PM

  > Starting today, you can choose to opt into Facebook Dating and create a Dating profile (separate from your main profile) if you’re 18 years or older and have downloaded the most recent version of Facebook

  So this is mobile-only? Exclusive of WhatsApp/Instagram, isn't that a first for FB?

• by kart23 on 9/5/19, 3:59 PM

  Can anyone tell me how to actually opt in and use dating? I cant find it in the app on android.

• by rdtwo on 9/5/19, 2:59 PM

  This will be successful, the #1 cheating app will also be the #1 dating app it’s a no brainer

• by bitL on 9/5/19, 3:56 PM

  Didn't Facebook originally start as a "reductionistic" way for nerds around Mark to connect with "secret crushes" at Harvard? Didn't YouTube start as a dating site at UIUC as well, for pretty much the same reasons?

• by notus on 9/5/19, 9:59 PM

  Seems weird it shows you mutual friends. Part of the appeal of online dating is stepping outside of your friend circles and looking elsewhere. I definitely wouldn't want to broadcast my dating profile to mutual friends either.

• by flr03 on 9/5/19, 3:03 PM

  In a way this arrives extremely late, and minus the secret crush thing it's very much copying Tinder's design. On the other hand I don't see the online dating market collapsing anytime soon.

• by tempsy on 9/5/19, 6:03 PM

  I think it's a good opportunity to buy the small dip in Match. That stock has done incredibly well (doubled this year) and every earnings report has been massive as far as new subscriber count goes.

• by dzhiurgis on 9/6/19, 8:18 AM

  Finally grandparents around the world can find their partner!

• by mcbutterbunz on 9/6/19, 3:57 AM

  Considering FB has a history of running psychological tests on users, I can easily see how their "Secret Crush Lists" could be used as a psychological test.

• by FillardMillmore on 9/5/19, 3:22 PM

  It raises the question, where is the line drawn for FB users of things they will refuse to share with Facebook and/or allow Facebook to control?

• by nnq on 9/5/19, 8:21 PM

  "Let's do Tinder... but with likes, shares & comments from your entire (extended) family, and your boss!"

• by eddof13 on 9/5/19, 3:45 PM

  Just saying, having used Facebook Dating in Mexico where it's been for a while, much better return than on Tinder

• by HNLurker2 on 9/6/19, 6:57 AM

  God have mercy be better than Tinder God have mercy be better than Tinder God have mercy be better than Tinder

• by unsignedint on 9/6/19, 2:14 AM

  Tried to just to see... "We aren't suggesting people in your area yet." I guess I will have to wait. At least this didn't reject me like other dating sites did.

  In any case, I'm not sure if I would be inclined actually meet someone from the result. Maybe because of my demisexual nature, but am I the only one feel reluctant to meet up with someone from dating sites?

• by 29_29 on 9/5/19, 2:51 PM

  April fools? Had to check my calendar

• by enjoyyourlife on 9/5/19, 7:13 PM

  It seems like that they are announcing this now in order to cover up the phone number leak

• by bfrog on 9/5/19, 2:49 PM

  It's facebook official, its time to get the hell off facebook

• by app4soft on 9/5/19, 5:47 PM

  Would Facebook Dating be competitor to Tinder?

• by mudlus on 9/5/19, 9:56 PM

  All the world is a stage, FB wants to be that stage.

• by indiantinker on 9/5/19, 2:53 PM

  Interesting choice of pilot countries/regions.

• by gameguy43 on 9/5/19, 9:48 PM

  bug in the app on iPhone Xs: unable to leave "preview profile" step.

• by papito on 9/5/19, 2:50 PM

  Cool. I think I have a chance with all those wives of my friends that used to be young and single.

• by kearneyandy on 9/5/19, 5:20 PM

  I'm honestly just surprised that "secret crush" translates to other languages

• by floatingatoll on 9/5/19, 2:40 PM

  The list of supported countries does not seem to include any GDPR country.

• by raulgalera on 9/5/19, 7:16 PM

  isn't that what instagram is for?

• by algaeontoast on 9/6/19, 2:43 PM

  No thanks.

• by Temasik on 9/5/19, 8:02 PM

  cringe

• by OBLIQUE_PILLAR on 9/5/19, 5:22 PM

  no.

• by joelrunyon on 9/5/19, 6:04 PM

  Hard pass.

• by apexalpha on 9/5/19, 4:49 PM

  So, Tinder?

• by lerie on 9/5/19, 2:35 PM

  what a horrible idea for both facebook and its users

• by malloreon on 9/5/19, 4:09 PM

  requiring installation of the FB app is a nonstarter.

• by jeffrogers on 9/5/19, 3:29 PM

  (now wishing HN had a downvote button)

• by matchbok on 9/5/19, 2:40 PM

  FB has clearly run out of ideas.

• by _pmf_ on 9/5/19, 2:50 PM

  Money, dating and social credit system in one place. How convenient.