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Ask HN: Why is Bluetooth audio always so bad?

by pje on 8/22/19, 5:13 PM with 75 comments

• by conception on 8/22/19, 6:58 PM

  So, no one has touched on a technical limitation. Bluetooth sucks for going through water. (If you like The Maths http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/microwave_water.html )

  Guess what people are mainly made of?

  So, if you are standing between a BT transmitter and a BT receiver a lot of magic needs to happen to get the data moving between the two.

  People love Airpods. People often put their phones in their pockets. A lot of water in the way.

  If you notice BT being particularly terrible, look for how water might be blocking the signal.

  This, of course, isn't the cause of all BT problems, but knowing this fundamental really helps troubleshoot when you run into a lot of them.

• by avian on 8/22/19, 6:39 PM

  > Are there some fundamental technical limitations in the spec?

  It's the same issue as with practically everything else digital these days. Hugely complicated thousand-page standards that few, if any, understand in their entirety. Implementations that are rushed to market to "be fixed later because it's just software" - which never actually happens because the next thing comes along and instead of fixing existing shit it's again a rush to the deadline to push more of it out the door.

• by Gibbon1 on 8/22/19, 7:15 PM

  It's a low power legacy frequency hopper with a bloated USB like network stack that isn't USB. That was the design from the very beginning.

  It's unfixable.

  My honest professional opinion is the people that wrote the spec had no idea what they were doing.

• by jdietrich on 8/22/19, 7:23 PM

  The core Bluetooth spec is 2985 pages. Essentially no-one correctly implements it; it's arguable that the spec is sufficiently complex, vague and self-contradictory that it's impossible to correctly implement. Unless you're using two devices by the same manufacturer (Earpods with an iPhone, a PS4 with the PS4 controller) your odds of getting a consistent, reliable experience are vanishingly slim.

• by necovek on 8/22/19, 5:33 PM

  If I remember correctly, the bluetooth headset profile (if you require microphone input) is pretty low bandwidth (think gsm quality), which would explain low quality in that case.

  Newer Bluetooth variants support higher quality audio without a microphone (A2DP), and that's what you are likely using today unless you are in a call.

  As far as interference in the 2.4GHz range, there is not much you can do about it in areas you don't control.

• by unfocused on 8/22/19, 6:30 PM

  I'm still annoyed that I can't get FM radio to route over Bluetooth without getting some bizarre up.

  My old Moto G could play FM Radio, and you could select Bluetooth as the output. Fast forward to today, and the Samsung A50 (in my hands right now), has the ability to pick the app, and select the output to Bluetooth, but it doesn't work for FM Radio. Why? Because Bluetooth is just not consistent in my opinion.

  EDIT: I am probably in the minority of people that insist on FM Radio on their phone. Just putting that out there as most people will not run into my problems.

• by neonscribe on 8/22/19, 6:57 PM

  Bluetooth audio quality, while still noticeably worse than wired connections, is much better on iOS devices using the AAC codec than on earlier codecs. Check device specs before buying. Many currently available Bluetooth devices, even some very inexpensive ones, support AAC. Use aptX on Android, AAC on iOS. If you care more about quality than convenience, use a wired connection. If you are listening to contemporary popular music with extreme dynamic range compression (not the same as data compression), you might not even be able to tell the difference between a quality Bluetooth codec and a wired connection.

• by marrone12 on 8/22/19, 6:31 PM

  Bluetooth is much better on Android/Desktops with support for apt-x HD low latency codecs.

• by ReptileMan on 8/22/19, 7:23 PM

  Well Sony WH1000 MX2/3 perform really well, so do Bose QCII and the Harman Kardon Esquire also provide high quality sound.

  BT headphones can and do sound nice.

• by seph-reed on 8/22/19, 6:49 PM

  I do not know why it's so bad, but I do make a point to rant about it whenever I can (around friends). I've had terrible luck with it, absolutely never works for me. Another thing I've noticed about it which drives me crazy is that some devices will try to make up for issues by stretching/shrinking audio. This will either distort the tonality, or the rythm... but either way it messes up the song. And it blows my mind. Aux cords are cheap and foolproof.

  In terms of alternatives, I have heard "zigby" mentioned. Also, aux cords Just Work. And I know this wouldn't work for everything, but I always wish I could have infrared transmission wherever possible. Even if I can't actually hear the transmissions, it still feels very loud to be blasting bluetooth out in every direction.

• by bni on 8/22/19, 7:15 PM

  SBC codec, that is default and mandatory suck ass. It was chosen because they didn't want to pay the patent licensing fees of something better.

  SBC was made for voice and is acceptable for that. Better codecs like AptX and AAC exists in many devices now, but because of incompabilites SBC is often negotiated anyway.

• by dirtyid on 8/22/19, 7:54 PM

  Wish there's easy way to broadcast to multiple devices to share media. Had to use a bluetooth audio receiver with 3.5 jack + splitter + 2 cable headphones.

  Also what is it about specific intersections that reliably causes connectivity / stutter issues? Is it something specific to the traffic signalling equipment or spectrum pollution? It happens more in dense urban environments but there are several extremely bland pedestrian crossings in my neighborhood where this happens as well. And then only on certain headphones.

  Also the fact that battery reporting is still not standard is annoying.

• by joncrane on 8/22/19, 7:08 PM

  I just bought a new car with BlueTooth integration, my first such car. I listen to Pandora when I drive.

  I notice that the connection is not reliable, even when the phone is in a holder on the dash. I end up using the AUX input through the headphone jack.

  I'm wondering if this is a common problem in cars, or if I should have my car looked at.

• by rl3 on 8/22/19, 7:15 PM

  As far as the UX nightmare, I'd attribute that aspect to the same problem EFI has: there are too many implementations, and most of them suck.

• by dingo_bat on 8/22/19, 6:38 PM

  I think you've used only bad devices so you've had a bad experience. Use a good pair of Bluetooth headphones like Sony WH1000 or Bose Qc35 along with a good phone like Galaxy S10. It's perfect. No cut outs, amazing quality, insane range.

• by moonbug on 8/22/19, 5:59 PM

  Go check the page count of the Bluetooth specs, and you'll have your answer.

• by mikestew on 8/22/19, 6:28 PM

  Followup: are there competing technologies that Just Work™?

  The W1/H1 chips, here after referred to as "Makes BT Not Suck" chips or MBNS, are the reason I put up with the otherwise unremarkable sound quality of Beats Studios and AirPods. I was reminded why just recently as I took the Bluetooth speaker out to the garage so the wife and I could do yoga. "Oh, yeaaaahhh. I have to go find the last device it was connected to, and disconnect it. Then, and only then, can I pair to her iPad."

  If I had a HomePod or other AirPlay speaker in the garage, no matter what the speaker was connected to previous, I could have just told the iPad to use the speaker and be done with it.